ot. the other perspective

[millennial]

[quote=njtosd]

Huh??? I grew up in the suburbs. My Dad was from Redford. My mom was from Highland Park. She went to McKenzie High (though she wasn’t Catherine Deneuve – ah more proof of my Motor City origins). Why would you have any better idea of the size of Detroit than anyone else? Again – it’s the somewhat ingenuous millennial thing.

The road ahead after bankruptcy is still somewhat unsure: http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/detroit-reborn/2015/11/08/detroit-rising-life-after-bankruptcy/75085252/

In terms of downtown Detroit being like Chicago – after law school I lived in Chicago (Lincoln Park, if you are still doubting – Belden Stratford) for about 7 yrs and there is absolutely NO comparison in terms of well, anything. I’m sorry that’s true but it is true. You’re free to go live in Detroit and do what you want to improve it – but both you and I are here (at least I think you are) and all we can do is be realistic and hope for the best. There’s no shame in that. But there is no point in magical thinking.[/quote]

Listen if you want to keep hating on Detroit that’s your thing. Redford itself is a blue collar suburb of Detroit and has significantly less history and would not be considered Detroit. In terms of revitalization, I never said it’s fully revitalized by any means, but there are signs of life.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2016-01-13/detroit-s-revitalization-from-destruction-to-wealth

This video shows exactly what’s going on downtown. It’s vibrant and there are things to do like outdoor ice skating rinks, nightlife, etc.. They never had any of this when I was younger. Also displayed, is exactly what I talked about earlier which shows the areas outside which still have a lot more revitalization/bulldozing to do. Like I said, Detroit is still “right sizing” and definitely not totally revitalized, but it’s definitely taking a step in the right direction. Visionaries see things that others don’t and create the world around them. I’m not saying I’m one, but at least can appreciate and root for those that are trying to make a difference. That’s all I’m asking as a fellow Michigander.

[Anonymous]

Yes, of course it’s a protest according to the damn dictionary.

But nj’s point is more substantial: These protests are nonsense.

Anyone protesting the outcome of fairly won election doesn’t understand how democracy works.

[millennial]

No I get it. I’m just saying that she uses these terms that are based on her definition (for instance intellectual and protest) which makes it difficult to understand her initial post. Using her definition they would not be considered protesting…end of story because there is no goal. But according to mine they are protesting and it’s because they want to show and express their personal emotions and display it as a unified front to those in the south and Midwest. This in my mind is a protest.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=AN]
Sorry, I mean uneducated. Same point, if you want to win, have a hope and change message. It worked the last 3 times.[/quote]

The hopey changey meme is kinda tired. It was just a way to deride Obama supporters. Obama was the first Black President so the optimism was understandable.

There is always hope and change when voting for the non incumbent party.

Hope is part of faith which believers in God have. Change is the arc of progress, the direction we wish to go in the pursuit of a more perfect union.

It’s mean to say “how that’s hopey changey thing going for you?” to a poor Black guy who doesn’t have many opportunities but hoped that the first black president could make a difference. If anything, Obama was a role model and inspiration to many.

People who say such things deserve to have the same shit thrown back in their faces when they face adversity.

Don’t we all have hope such as that our kids will turn out good?

[njtosd]

[quote=millennial]No I get it. I’m just saying that she uses these terms that are based on her definition (for instance intellectual and protest) which makes it difficult to understand her initial post. Using her definition they would not be considered protesting…end of story because there is no goal. But according to mine they are protesting and it’s because they want to show and express their personal emotions and display it as a unified front to those in the south and Midwest. This in my mind is a protest.[/quote]

Funny – in your last sentence you used the words “In my mind”, which are exactly the words I used at the beginning of the first paragraph that you quoted. I started the second paragraph of that quote with the words “in my opinion”. And I guess I should have said “political protest” – I am quite aware of the fact that one can protest against the quality of restaurant service, the theme for 6th grade promotion, the winner on America’s Got Talent or whatever. I never purported to define anything.

Last I checked I was still entitled to my opinion just as you are entitled to yours. IN MY OPINION (and to paraphrase a line from A Fish Called Wanda) calling these marches political protests is an insult to what IN MY OPINION are true political protests, such as those relating to abuses by the police, our continued participation in various wars or even CA’s policies on admission of in state vs out of state vs international students.

These people are grieving and mourning IN MY OPINION, and people don’t usually walk through the streets to do it. For some reason IN MY OPINION they equate a disappointing albeit fair loss with somehow being cheated by someone. Is that better?

[millennial]

My last sentence when I used “in my mind” was used to show that “in my mind” my definition was the standard definition. Regardless, this is a pointless argument since it seems you are unable to understand the problem of creating new words, or definitions of existing words when making a point. IN MY OPINION if you want to discuss a topic, you should first start with the standard definition before creating or mutating existing ones.

[NotCranky]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=AN]
Sorry, I mean uneducated. Same point, if you want to win, have a hope and change message. It worked the last 3 times.[/quote]

The hopey changey meme is kinda tired. It was just a way to deride Obama supporters. Obama was the first Black President so the optimism was understandable.

There is always hope and change when voting for the non incumbent party.

Hope is part of faith which believers in God have. Change is the arc of progress, the direction we wish to go in the pursuit of a more perfect union.

It’s mean to say “how that’s hopey changey thing going for you?” to a poor Black guy who doesn’t have many opportunities but hoped that the first black president could make a difference. If anything, Obama was a role model and inspiration to many.

People who say such things deserve to have the same shit thrown back in their faces when they face adversity.

Don’t we all have hope such as that our kids will turn out good?[/quote]

The people who Obama manipulated with “Hope and Change”, who would understandably be manipulated by it ,deserve some empathy for their plight and desperation. The same sentiments should apply to the struggling members of our society that fell for Trump’s hope a dope game.

[NotCranky]

The people making a fuss appear to be emotionally weak people acting hysterical , not protestors. Agree that grieving is a big part of it. Most people do that more privately and responsibly.

[spdrun]

Why is it irresponsible to grieve in public? Isn’t public grief the point of a funeral or any number of other ceremonies?

As far as the people making a fuss, fact is that a significant number of racists have been enabled by the Trump win. People who are one of the ethnicities that Trump (and his supporters) have railed against have every right to feel threatened, uncomfortable, and angry.

Same goes for anyone who has close friends, family, or significant others.

[ltsddd]

Well, there’s hope. Scary thought that christie would play a critical role on trump’s team moving forward

https://www.yahoo.com/news/behind-smiles-tough-reality-trump-080607274.html?ref=gs

…now, if only he’d make it official and get rid of guiliani also.

[Coronita]

So the funny part is that it appears Trump is now saying he’s not planning to try to kill obamacare……I thought that was one on the main reasons people were backing him….Lol…I wonder eventually how much of what he says, he’s actually going to do.

I’m beginning to think that as he slowly learns what each of the issues are, he’s now like saying “oh shit, I didn’t think about that…That isn’t such a bad thing after all…”

Trump likes main Obamacare provisions ‘very much’

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37953528

US President-elect Donald Trump has said in an interview he is open to leaving intact key parts of President Barack Obama’s healthcare bill.
Mr Trump, who has pledged repeatedly to repeal the 2010 law, signalled he was receptive to a compromise after visiting the White House on Thursday.
He told the Wall Street Journal he favours keeping two pillars of the bill because “I like those very much”.

ha ha ha, oh my god… He’s not even in the white house yet, and he’s flipping on some of the main pillars of his campaign. Wow, that’s awesome.

[Anonymous]

This is Trump’s healthcare plan:

– Start with Obamacare.

– Give it a new name.

– Change a few parameters to make it look they actually did something.

– Have Fox News tout how wonderful it is day-in day-out for a year or two.

– Have talk radio dismiss any data, anecdotes, or other evidence of problems as MSM propaganda or whining by liberal elitists.

And just like that, healthcare in America will transform from disaster to success.

[spdrun]

He never was. He’s been fairly consistently for removal of pre-existing condition rules, and even universal coverage since the late 90s.

What bothers me isn’t his ideas about health care. It’s his authoritarian streak. When he was interviewed in 1990, he stated that his impression of the USSR was that Gorbachev wasn’t harsh enough, and he praised the Chinese reponse to Tiananmen Square.

I’m more concerned about internal DHS/Border Patrol checkpoints, having to show ID everywhere, increased funding for civil forfeiture programs, mass incarceration, rolling back War on Drugs reform than I am about health care under Donnie.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=flu]So the funny part is that it appears Trump is now saying he’s not planning to try to kill obamacare……I thought that was one on the main reasons people were backing him….Lol…I wonder eventually how much of what he says, he’s actually going to do.

I’m beginning to think that as he slowly learns what each of the issues are, he’s now like saying “oh shit, I didn’t think about that…That isn’t such a bad thing after all…”

Trump likes main Obamacare provisions ‘very much’

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37953528

US President-elect Donald Trump has said in an interview he is open to leaving intact key parts of President Barack Obama’s healthcare bill.
Mr Trump, who has pledged repeatedly to repeal the 2010 law, signalled he was receptive to a compromise after visiting the White House on Thursday.
He told the Wall Street Journal he favours keeping two pillars of the bill because “I like those very much”.

ha ha ha, oh my god… He’s not even in the white house yet, and he’s flipping on some of the main pillars of his campaign. Wow, that’s awesome.[/quote]The two parts Trump wants to “keep” are that people with pre-existing conditions can’t be denied coverage and young adults under the age of 26 can remain on their parent’s policy until they get their own coverage from FT work.

That’s it.

Those provisions aren’t new. They were going to be in his reform plans. If you read his proposals on his website, you would know that.

Those two things can be accomplished through the formation of state insurance pools formed for people with pre-existing conditions and a monthly allowance to help pay their (likely exorbitant) premiums. Yes, even if Obamacare is repealed in its entirety.

Currently, EVERYONE who has purchased a (non-Medicaid) Obamacare plan is paying higher (often MUCH higher) premiums to assist those who can’t otherwise afford coverage due to having pre-existing conditions.

Major insurance companies WILL participate in the state insurance pools . . . that is, if they want the right to sell policies to healthy people in that state. This is what should have been done in 2010 instead of drag everyone who was happy with their plan into the spiraling morass of dogsh*t..

In CA, only about 1.4 million people on “Obamacare” are actually marketplace planholders. A large portion of this group (myself included) were already insured prior to the inception of the ACA and our plans were cancelled directly as a result of the law. The other 12 million or so who signed up on Covered CA are on Medi-Cal … about half of them involuntarily. Covered CA is a joke and the ACA was designed to place as many people as possible as soon as possible on Medicaid, so our respective County Depts of Social Services would have all of our income info (which could be used against us later for other purposes) and complete control over our healthcare decisions.

In reality, Obamacare has helped no one and actually very quickly had the effect of decimating our insurance system (which was the Dem’s plan all along, so “universal coverage” would seem more palatable to the masses). The people who needed subsidies to purchase a crappy high-deductible narrow-network plan on the exchange could have afforded a nationwide HDHP with a HUGE provider network from a very reputable carrier pre-ACA but they chose not to spend the money until it was “mandated” and they got a very substandard product for it. They’re spending money now …. in spades …. OR dropping out of the exchange without coverage OR going on Medi-Cal. Obamacare is sinking from its own weight.

Compare the state insurance pools to “Mexico WILL pay for the wall” … directly or indirectly. MX can either cooperate with us now or pay dearly for not doing so later.

****

flu, you have a tendency to generalize on things you read on the internet and then type a little sound byte about it here … for “effect” (positive or negative). For example, you repeatedly have stated here that you personally fear deportation under a Trump presidency yet you claim to be a US citizen. If you can keep your facts straight and quit posting in drama queen fashion, you would be more credible.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=harvey]This is Trump’s healthcare plan:

– Start with Obamacare.

– Give it a new name.

– Change a few parameters to make it look they actually did something.

– Have Fox News tout how wonderful it is day-in day-out for a year or two.

– Have talk radio dismiss any data, anecdotes, or other evidence of problems as MSM propaganda or whining by liberal elitists.

And just like that, healthcare in America will transform from disaster to success.[/quote]And pri_dk also needs to read Trump’s proposals on his website. He’s spouting nonsense into thin air.

[Author]

Posts