OT: No Surprise. . .A Retirement Crisis is Coming to a Country Near You. . .

[bearishgurl]

[quote=FormerSanDiegan][quote=bearishgurl]
I don’t see a terrible catastrophe on the horizon with boomers being able to retire. Like myself, most lived below their means (during some periods of their life FAR below their “means”) in order to amass savings.
[/quote]

I think you might be projecting your own habits and frugality onto the boomer generation.

I seem to remember boomers as the “me” generation in the 70’s and the “greed is good” generation in the 80’s.

From
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-07-29/politics/baby.boomers_1_baby-boomers-sandwich-generation-retirement-age?_s=PM:POLITICS

“Baby boomers — those born between 1946 and 1964 — have been described as “the pig in the python” and the “sandwich generation.”

They lived well, grew up in relative abundance and, some say, expected their Social Security, health care and government support to be there as they grew old.

Baby boomers grew up during relative prosperity, from the economic boom of the post-World War II ’50s to the “Me” generation of the ’60s through the lucrative uptick in the Reagan ’80s. And then there were the budget surpluses they enjoyed during the Clinton ’90s.

As a result, many were able to buy second homes, take out loans at low interest rates, buy cheap gas and pump money back into the economy.[/quote]

FSD, that “me” generation of the ’70’s wore the same 2-3 pairs of levis for 8-10 years (with the worn places patched up and even fabric bottoms sewn on). They didn’t have access to a plethora of “designer jeans” and “electronic gadgets” (with their expensive monthly subscriptions). The cars they put that “cheap” gas in (which they often had to wait in long lines for), for the most part, did NOT have AC or even carpet on the floorboard, much less surround-sound stereo! For the record, I held partially open a two-barrel “Carter” carburetor on my first vehicle (of the “Mopar” persuasion) with a jumbo paperclip and giant hairpin for at least three years until I could rebuild it. And some of my friends had rusted-out fuel openings and emergency brakes and peeling dashes in their cars. And the list goes on.

Gen Y wouldn’t be caught dead driving one of these monstrosities, even if a parent gave it to them for FREE. And Gen Y women wouldn’t be caught dead wearing the often ill-fitting (sized for boys/men) “501/505” dungaree jeans and wearing halter tops we made from tye-dyed sheets with $3 men’s button-front chambray shirts (which we embroidered ourselves) over them and (men’s sized) hiking boots and moccasins.

H@ll, fvcking NO! A lot of girls in HS these days are actually carrying ~$300 Michael Kors bags in lieu of a backpack. Believe it or not.

And the list of comparisons goes on.

And the reason for this glaring division in values between boomers and (primarily) Gen Y? Because Gen Y now has many “choices” in life and obviously more deep-pocketed parents than boomers did. Ask yourself how their parents [the boomers] got that way. The above are just a few of the “choices” most boomers never had while growing up so were “conditioned” to live more “frugally.”

It’s hard to bring up a kid these days with your “frugal” values when “reality TV” and their “peers” are everywhere.

No, boomers, when young, weren’t very “high-maintenance” are most aren’t today. A 3-spd bicycle, a few pairs of jeans, a transistor radio and perhaps a modest backpack is all many of them had while growing up. In any case, many of them (at least the ones I’m acquainted with :)) still regularly wear Levis 501’s and 505’s (now a whopping ~$30) and they will never change!

I even still wear my old-school Levis on occasion and not just for pulling weeds :=]

[SK in CV]

Agree with all of this BG, except this part:

It’s hard to bring up a kid these days with your “frugal” values when “reality TV” and their “peers” are everywhere.

I don’t think I worked any harder than any other parent. My daughter just called me, and her exciting news was that she got two shirts before a bachelorette party in Vegas, and they only cost $9. Total. My son shops at 2nd hand stores.

I still wear my 501’s regularly. Though I like the fit of the 5-0-something else better. And flip-flops. Sad they don’t cost $1.05 anymore. Don’t seem to last as long either. My 15 year old car is slightly older than the one I drove in high school.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=SK in CV]Agree with all of this BG, except this part:

It’s hard to bring up a kid these days with your “frugal” values when “reality TV” and their “peers” are everywhere.

I don’t think I worked any harder than any other parent. My daughter just called me, and her exciting news was that she got two shirts before a bachelorette party in Vegas, and they only cost $9. Total. My son shops at 2nd hand stores.

I still wear my 501’s regularly. Though I like the fit of the 5-0-something else better. And flip-flops. Sad they don’t cost $1.05 anymore. Don’t seem to last as long either. My 15 year old car is slightly older than the one I drove in high school.[/quote]

LOL, SK. I have a kid living in SF who has shopped in “consignment shops” there for nearly a decade. They’ve found some incredible (even “vintage”) designer stuff for under $10. And up until a few months ago, they drove one of their dad’s (now 32 year-old) cars.

However, I think some of this “frugality” is just a function of them being a 5+ year college student and then trying to launch from the starter blocks of life, which they have … impressively, I might add.

The kid I still have at home has been watching far too much of the “Kardashians,” IMHO. Do you realize these “bad actors” often change clothes up to seven times in one episode?? :=0

My own vehicle will turn “20” in June. Having put several repairs into it in the past year, I’m planning on getting the oil changed and the tires rotated and taking it back on the road in the coming months.

This year, I’ll refrain from buying any “bad gas” in that infamous “Camp Verde” off I-17 in Aridzona. I later found out it to be the culprit that set off my “Check” light with the little picture of an alternator, which didn’t go off until the next morning (when I refilled the tank with a fuel additive). It was kind of scary when still climbing in that altitude and heat level :=0

[flyer]

As always–interesting responses. That’s why I enjoy reading and posting on this board!

Whether the concept of retirement is “propaganda,” “hype” or anything else, I sleep a lot better at night knowing I’m financially prepared.

[CA renter]

[quote=SD Transplant]Another reality I caught in the media is that savings rates are low. Well, savings isn’t encouraged by our FED, the savers are punished.
– How did it work out for the folks that saved cash for a full 20% down payment for a house……not so well (specifically when looking at 2012 or 2013 data……). They will never catch up.
– Inflation……yeah, we know how that’s going

People may save in retirement like accounts, the rest of the cash if it still sits idle will buy a loaf of bread in another year. There isn’t a way for a regular consumer to win here. BORROW to the hilt is the name of the game….boom times here we go again “YES, it is diferent this time.”[/quote]

ITA.

Unless the Fed stops manipulating markets (ha!), savers are the ones paying for all the bailouts. Not only are they getting nothing on savings, but they have to watch in horror as prices continue to go up on all basic necessities, crushing their purchasing power by the day.

It’s easy to see why everyone is trying to get into the “investing” (asset price inflation) game…it’s the only game left in town.

[The-Shoveler]

“These are not the droids you’re looking for”
There is nothing here move along

“its all part of the plan”

Fed chairman discussing record high stock prices, only in this instance, Ben Bernanke not only refused to take credit for the rally, but went one step further, saying “At this point, we don’t see anything out of line with historical patterns.”
As my co-host Jeff Macke and I discuss in the attached video, while many investors are nervous about lofty stocks right now, Bernanke does not appear to be one of them. I like to call this his anti-irrational exuberance moment, as it aimed to defuse investor worries rather than heighten them, and even saw the Fed chief advancing the theory of inflation-adjusted stock prices still being well below an all-time high.

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

[quote=bearishgurl]

FSD, that “me” generation of the ’70’s wore the same 2-3 pairs of levis for 8-10 years (with the worn places patched up and even fabric bottoms sewn on). They didn’t have access to a plethora of “designer jeans”

[/quote]

What about Jordache Jeans ?

The designer jean craze was powered by boomer consumers in the late 70’s and early 80’s.

I think you hold a very narrow view of history, heavily influenced by your personal experiences. I don’t think your personal experience reflects the entire generation, and in some ways is counter to the mainstream boomers.

The Car comparison is interesting..
What do you think previous generations thought about the boomers all driving around in their fancy automobiles, as teenagers, no less. Those greatest generation people had to walk to school uphill in the snow both ways. They didn’t have a car at all.

And as for electronics… Those spoiled boomers have color TV for chrissakes. If you are going to make these comparisons between Gen Y and boomers, you should consider the same comparison between boomers and and the generation or two before them.

I am pretty sure if there were such thing as a blog site like this one 30 years ago, there would be some person from the Greatest Generation claiming how the kid’s of the 60s and 70s are rotten, self-absorbed narcissistic spoiled brats, with their cars, color TVs, disco pants, Jordache Jeans, blah blah blah

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

Other historical views on Boomers …

“Frankly and unapologetically materialistic”

– – – –

“As the recession of the early 1980s gave way to economic boom times, success American style began to occupy the pedestal baby boomers had once reserved for social justice. Raised during the great period of American prosperity and influenced by the turning inward of the “Me Decade” of the 1970s, many baby boomers responded enthusiastically in the 1980s to Republican calls for reinvigorating the U.S. economy.

Gary Hart’s presidential campaign in 1984 labeled these baby boomers “yuppies” (young urban professionals), and the name stuck. Frankly and unapologetically materialistic, they focused on careers and the good life promised by the American Dream. Defined by one research group as people between the ages of twenty-five and thirty-nine, with incomes of at least $40,000 from a professional or management job, yuppies were estimated in 1984 to be 4 million strong—and three times more likely than other Americans to have an American Express card. ”

from …
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3468303119.html

[(former)FormerSanDiegan]

Article on Gen Y

“So is this the Laziest Generation? There are signs that its members benefit from lower standards. Technology has certainly made life easier. But there may also be a generation gap; the way young adults work is simply different.

It’s worth remembering that to some extent, these accusations of laziness and narcissism in “kids these days” are nothing new — they’ve been levied against Generation X, Baby Boomers and many generations before them. Even Aristotle and Plato were said to have expressed similar feelings about the slacker youth of their times.”

[bearishgurl]

[quote=FormerSanDiegan][quote=bearishgurl]

FSD, that “me” generation of the ’70’s wore the same 2-3 pairs of levis for 8-10 years (with the worn places patched up and even fabric bottoms sewn on). They didn’t have access to a plethora of “designer jeans”[/quote]

What about Jordache Jeans ?

The designer jean craze was powered by boomer consumers in the late 70’s and early 80’s.

I think you hold a very narrow view of history, heavily influenced by your personal experiences. I don’t think your personal experience reflects the entire generation, and in some ways is counter to the mainstream boomers.

The Car comparison is interesting..
What do you think previous generations thought about the boomers all driving around in their fancy automobiles, as teenagers, no less. Those greatest generation people had to walk to school uphill in the snow both ways. They didn’t have a car at all.

And as for electronics… Those spoiled boomers have color TV for chrissakes. If you are going to make these comparisons between Gen Y and boomers, you should consider the same comparison between boomers and and the generation or two before them.

I am pretty sure if there were such thing as a blog site like this one 30 years ago, there would be some person from the Greatest Generation claiming how the kid’s of the 60s and 70s are rotten, self-absorbed narcissistic spoiled brats, with their cars, color TVs, disco pants, Jordache Jeans, blah blah blah[/quote]

blah, blah, blah, FSD. I think you have your time frames mixed up, among other facts. Having NOT been there, I’m sure you came by this mistake honestly.

Jordache, and a year or so later, Britannia Jeans, both came out in women’s sizes. This was 1978-1980, when the bulk of boomers were already adults. No, I didn’t wear either, but wore “Dittos,” which were available during the same time period. The “disco era” was also in this same period of time.

Those “spoiled boomers” I knew all had used (hand-me-down) cars … and some were VERY used. I got my first used car for free (a “Mopar-type” sans transmission) at the age of 18. It cost me $250 just to get it running and over $700 annually for my insurance (since I was under the age of 25). That was a LOT of money back then.

My parents bought a console Zenith color TV in the early 60’s at a cost of over $500, a small fortune at the time! At that time, they had only been out for a few years. It was very similar to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIefAOli1QY

IIRC, portable color TV’s weren’t available until MUCH later. As an adult, on my own, I personally didn’t own a color TV until 1988 and did not have cable TV until 1986. Prior to that, we used a rabbit ear antenna, which got 3-5 channels in most areas of metro SD.

My Greatest Gen/Depression-era parents never complained about having to “walk to school uphill in the snow both ways.” They complained about having to get up in the morning to slop pigs before school and about having to flee their homes to their underground shelters during “tornado season” and having to huddle there with six or more people for the duration of the storm. My dad shared a car with his brothers but drove a tractor whenever he wanted … and didn’t want to. My parents could actually be considered to be latent “dust bowl refugees” from the nation’s flat-as-a-pool-table heartland :=]

I don’t think you know who an American “mainstream boomer” is, FSD. Believe it or not, they came from all regions and demographics.

Wow, just wow . . .

[The-Shoveler]

Haa, hmm I don’t want to get in the middle of this but I did live that,

Designer Jeans and Disco and expensive beer were Unambiguous in suburbia in the late 70’s

So was spending more that you make.

[The-Shoveler]

I had one heck of a good time in the 70’s BTW,

always bough a new surf board once a year at least, and never drank domestic beer.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=FormerSanDiegan]

[/quote]

Interesting story … but lets put the blame where the blame lies …

The first (of 450) comments on this story reflect my sentiments exactly:

Nice story about my generation. I would add that in my working, tax-paying life, I paid social security and medicare taxes that supported both my grandparents (and other blood relatives of the their generation, born in the last years of the 19th century) and both my parents. They all received benefits far in excess of their contributions to Social Security and Medicare. Also, it was their generations that passed/adopted/voted for the Presidents, Senators, and Representatives who created the entitlements that exist today. I was 15 in 1965 and obviously not yet born in the 1930s. As a nation we can no longer afford to provide the benefits my grandparents and patents received, financed by my labor and taxes on my wages, but your tale is short-sighted when you describe mine as the entitlement generation.

(emphasis mine)

What the writer doesn’t say is that the vast majority (if not all) his female elder relatives often didn’t contribute to the “system” at all, yet collected SS until the day they died.

He’s absolutely right. We supported the gens before us because that is what the SS (OASDI) “system” was in place for. Now it is our turn to be on the “receiving end,” except for one caveat. We boomers (male AND female) DID (involuntarily for decades) put substantial portions of our pay into it. A good portion of us actually maxed out our SS contributions to the maximum allowable by law. It is now our turn to collect (hopefully most or all of the “corpus” or principal) of our “contributions” back out … forget any potential “interest” we could have made on the money.

Suck it up and deal with it. We boomers did so why are Gen X/Y whining about this now?

[bearishgurl]

[quote=The-Shoveler]I had one heck of a good time in the 70’s BTW,

always bough a new surf board once a year at least, and never drank domestic beer.[/quote]

Yeah, yeah. Corona and Dos Equis weren’t considered “Domestic Beer” back then :=D

[Author]

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