OT – Malaysian 777 shot down over Ukraine

[NotCranky]

How many people died in Gaza today?

[ucodegen]

[quote=Blogstar]How many people died in Gaza today?[/quote]Not enough to make them (both Israel and Hamas) sick of war, but more than enough to make the rest of the world sick.

The current numbers I have come across are 23 civs, 1 Israeli military.

[spdrun]

Repeating the same thing w/o references or supporting information does not make it true. I gave references for what I stated. Please do likewise.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-reports-progress-against-pro-russia-separatists-1405340926

“Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko’s office said the plane had been flying at an altitude of 6,500 meters (about 21,000 feet) and so couldn’t have been shot down by the rebels’ portable antiaircraft missiles.”

[ucodegen]

[quote=spdrun]

Repeating the same thing w/o references or supporting information does not make it true. I gave references for what I stated. Please do likewise.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-reports-progress-against-pro-russia-separatists-1405340926

“Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko’s office said the plane had been flying at an altitude of 6,500 meters (about 21,000 feet) and so couldn’t have been shot down by the rebels’ portable antiaircraft missiles.”[/quote]
Stated that it was probably shot from Russia as opposed to Ukraine. Make is more likely that it was not the separatists. Could of been part of training in the system for the separatists, on the part of Russians. I do get concerned on the uncorroborated claims of the altitude it was flying at.

This is a related item to your link..
http://mashable.com/2014/07/14/plane-ukraine/

[paramount]

Maybe MH370 was MH17?

[moneymaker]

I heard it was at 31,000 ft. which is normal for civilian aircraft. I guess there is no safe altitude, no wonder so many people are afraid to fly these days. Do you think the pilot had any idea what was about to happen, in other words would the black box give any more clues.

[spdrun]

Stated that it was probably shot from Russia as opposed to Ukraine. Make is more likely that it was not the separatists.

If Ukrainian intelligence wasn’t aware that the separatists had a longer-range SAM system, they would have blamed the Russians, since the Russians are known to have such equipment.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]Are we due for another of your famous “pri_dick_shuns”, like the one on Syrian chem weapons? I mean, speaking of authoritative, that one was right on the money.[/quote]

Heh, thanks for bringing that one up:

http://piggington.com/ot_looks_like_we_fired_on_libya?page=2

[quote=harvey]How will Syria play out?
– We’ll fire a few dozen missiles or so, Assad will realize that he now literally has some skin in the game, and he’ll stop using the chemical weapons.
– The conflict will rage on with conventional weapons for some undetermined amount of time and US military actions won’t affect the outcome.
– The conservative media will talk about this relative blip in American history far longer than it will be relevant, attempting to frame “Syria” as one of Obama’s grand failures, ala Benghazi.
– The public will lose interest in a few months or sooner, save for the standing population of those obsessed with proving Obama is the greatest disaster in American history.
The use of chemical weapons does cross a line. Of course there are plenty of arguments as to why that line is pointless. The “rules” of war are riddled with contradictions, but there are still rules. (Read some Vonnegut if you want a fun perspective on the subject.)
We’ve managed to keep the chemical weapon genie mostly contained for over a century, and a low risk operation in Syria will go a long way to deter their use in the future.
A US strike will not determine the victor, but it will influence the means by which they achieve victory.[/quote]

Of course we’ll never know what show of force the US actually used to convince Assad to put down his chemical weapons but, damn, the rest was “right on the money.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_Syria’s_chemical_weapons

Thanks for reminding everyone of my awesomeness!

So, Allan, when are you going to try to make a prediction? C’mon in and play!

[ucodegen]

[quote=spdrun]

Stated that it was probably shot from Russia as opposed to Ukraine. Make is more likely that it was not the separatists.

If Ukrainian intelligence wasn’t aware that the separatists had a longer-range SAM system, they would have blamed the Russians, since the Russians are known to have such equipment.[/quote]
And the Ukrainians have, as well as stated that they are aware of separatists being trained on more advanced weapons.

[spdrun]

“Trained on a system” doesn’t imply current possession of said devices. I imagine that there are plenty of ex-USAF people alive who were trained how to employ a nuclear weapon, yet no longer have access to said weapons.

This being said, even if the missile did come from Russia and shoot down a plane across the border, it still didn’t make it a good idea for a civilian airliner to be in the same airspace a few days later!!! If you’re hit by a missile fired by the Russian military vs one fired by terrorists, you’re just as dead.

And the Russians have a long history of shooting first and not apologizing later.

[paramount]

[quote=spdrun]”Trained on a system” doesn’t imply current possession of said devices. I imagine that there are plenty of ex-USAF people alive who were trained how to employ a nuclear weapon, yet no longer have access to said weapons.

This being said, even if the missile did come from Russia and shoot down a plane across the border, it still didn’t make it a good idea for a civilian airliner to be in the same airspace a few days later!!! If you’re hit by a missile fired by the Russian military vs one fired by terrorists, you’re just as dead.

And the Russians have a long history of shooting first and not apologizing later.[/quote]

Ok comrad, understand though that MH17 could have been taken over by remote control or via terrorists.

The shoot-down was an act of war IMO.

[spdrun]

Agreed that the shootdown was despicable. Whether act of war or a terrorist act, and how to respond to it is ultimately between the Malaysian government, the Dutch, the Ukrainians, and the Russians. Not really our fight here or for us to decide.

[CA renter]

Amen to that, spdrun!

[Author]

Posts