OT: looks like we fired on Libya…..

[NotCranky]

McCain says that he will not help Obama unless Obama goes bigger. Now who is backed into a corner again? Unless McCain backs down from that we are stuck between a big mouthed face saver and a big mouthed war monger. This is all so stupid, especially if you haven’t drank the WMD kool-aide.

I see bigger war no matter what. That is whether we sit on our hands or not. The only way it doesn’t happen is if Russia and US are negotiating a mutually tolerable power structure in Syria. I don’t know anything about that. Maybe Allan or others can speak to that.

[SK in CV]

[quote=FlyerInHi]This is about punishment for the use of chemical weapons, nothing more. Kerry said as much.

[/quote]

Well shit, if a politician said so, it must be true.

Punishment? Seriously? Like giving a kindergartner a time out for teasing a classmate. Only with bombs. And dead people.

This is not about punishment. This is about promoting a particular policy. I have no idea what the endgame of that policy is, none whatsoever. If you listen to John McCain, it’s putting AQ in charge in Syria. (that would be the rebels who are “definitely not terrorists.) I suspect that is not what Obama has in mind, nor the intelligence community.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=spdrun]^^^

Exactly. And I’m not sure whether an intervention in Syria will make things there better or worse.[/quote]

That’s why we want targeted strike that won’t affect the military outcome in Syria but is a moral stance against chemical weapons.

Kerry said military regime change is not the goal. McCain want to make it an American objective.[/quote]

FIH: So, the only country in history to have used atomic weapons is taking a moral stance against chemical weapons.

Cool. Let’s see how this plays out.

[spdrun]

Not to mention chemical weapons. What do you think that Napalm and Agent Orange were in all but name?

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Russ: All I know about McCain is that he loves to bomb shit (remember his little “Bomb Iran” ditty, set to The Beach Boys “Barbara Ann”?).

That dude would bomb a kitten factory if someone could make a case for it.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
FIH: So, the only country in history to have used atomic weapons is taking a moral stance against chemical weapons.

Cool. Let’s see how this plays out.[/quote]

We can correct our past mistakes of reckless imperial adventures and resources snatching.

We were the Saudi Arabia of the world and we are a continent full of resources.
We can develop new energy sources right here and should have done so much earlier. Don’t need to intervene in the Middle East.

But we can and should intervene on humanitarian grounds, such as in Kosovo.

Btw, justice is not applied evenly in all situations. Just because we didn’t do anything before doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do something now. Certain issues will call for intervention more than others

Local prosecutors don’t go after all criminals equally, but, by and large, we feel there is a certain level of justice in this country. And certain cases will draw more public attention.

A consistent and fair application of our foreign policy would be good for us. It will improve our global image and be good for business.

Spd, maybe we should apologize and pay reparation for the use of napalm and agent orange. If the world cries out for that, we could be swayed. Feel free to keep on reminding us.

[spdrun]

FlyerInHI – mostly agreed. But in the former Yugoslavia, we had clearer goals (separate the combatants, arrest the ringleaders of ethnic violence). In Syria, we kind of really don’t want Assad out but we want to give them a slap on the wrist.

And remember that former Yugoslavia required ground troops, not just missiles and a few bombs here and there.

[SD Realtor]

Yes SK there is no winning hand. There is no way that I can be convinced that bombing Syria in any way shape or form will help the situation. It doesn’t matter if everyone in congress says Aye.

Very simply stated, it is a horrible decision and the variety of outcomes are quite negative.

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=SD Realtor]yep…yep… and yep…as horrid as Assad is, I cringe to think what happens if he falls. Utter and complete chaos. Unless you have a plan to 100% occupy that country and cleanse it of all the weaponry I would not touch it with a 10 foot pole.
[/quote]

Hezbolla and Al Quada are foaming at the mouth and trying to figure out how to set quick and deep roots.

CE

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=spdrun]Not to mention chemical weapons. What do you think that Napalm and Agent Orange were in all but name?[/quote]

Poor line of logic…

So firing a gun isn’t chemical warfare?

The defining line is whether it works solely on the nervous system.

And Agent Orange wasn’t thought to be toxic at its usage. Time has said something different.

I would rather they drop AO on me then Willie Pete…

CE

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=Blogstar]Allan, Correct me if I am wrong but Hillary is a private citizen at this time? Taking a highly public role would be not so great for her and could be bad for the party.
Can’t see why to call her out? She might endorse Obama publicly, but doesn’t want to look too involved.

[/quote]

Plenty of citzens have made loud public proclaimations that get plenty of press… The difference is that they are not contemplating a run at the presidency…

😛

CE

[SK in CV]

[quote=CDMA ENG][quote=SD Realtor]yep…yep… and yep…as horrid as Assad is, I cringe to think what happens if he falls. Utter and complete chaos. Unless you have a plan to 100% occupy that country and cleanse it of all the weaponry I would not touch it with a 10 foot pole.
[/quote]

Hezbolla and Al Quada are foaming at the mouth and trying to figure out how to set quick and deep roots.

CE[/quote]

The only thing that Hezbollah wants in Syria is weapons. They’ve staked their claim with the Assad government. It’s unlikely they’ll be integrally involved in any new power structure in Syria. And the current opposition in Syria is made up of dozens, maybe scores, maybe even hundreds of disparate groups. AQ aligned groups make up only a tiny portion. There are no good guys there. There are bad guys, badder guys, and victims.

[spdrun]

The defining line is whether it works solely on the nervous system.

No it isn’t — I recall reading about WW I, where mustard gas was used. It wasn’t neurotoxic, just produced deep, slow-healing skin (and internal) burns. Definitely considered a chemical weapon.

[CDMA ENG]

Lastly I don’t know if anyone is watching the Syria fight on youtube but it is very interesting. Not for the shock value but for tactics that are employed on both sides and the culture of both sides fighting.

Some things that I have observed and I am sure the CIA and DOD are studying indepthly…

– Syria’s army are using tanks with no supporting infantry.

– The rebels are getting good hits in on tanks in urban enviroments. T-80s are getting eaten up by RPGs. Partly because there is no infantry support.

– The Rebels spend more time shouting “Allah Akbar” than aiming thier damn weapons. I kid you not… If it wasn’t so pathetic it would be funny.

– Despite thier inexperience and poor tactics they face thier enemy pretty valiantly so less fear than most.

– And the one thing that I saw that was very worrisome… I could have swore I saw a SMAW being fired. This is an American weapon. Where did they get that?!? And no Allan it wasn’t a Carl Gustuv…

These people are to be feared… By Assad… By us… By Israel…

CE

[SD Realtor]

So SK sounds like you advocate adding to the violence. Lots of reasons not to add to the sh-tstorm but I haven’t seen anyone post a good reason to add to it, including yourself.

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