ot. the life changing magic of tidying up: the Japanese art of decluttering

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=zk] There’s something wrong with them? You’re judging people because they’re messy? It seems to me like there’s something wrong with you. Lacking empathy and judging people over unimportant things is, in my opinion, a way bigger problem than being messy.
[/quote]

Let’s look at it another way.

When you go to a neighborhood that is not tidy, do you not shake you head and wonder about the people who live there?

Some neighborhoods have candy wrappers, potato chip bags, shopping bags and other litter flying about. Let’s not forget messy yards and junky cars. Is that important in the big picture?

The details do add up.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=svelte]We have a house cleaning service come in every other week to clean the floors, kitch, bathrooms, etc.

You know the best part about it?

It forces us to have all room tidy every 14 days, no excuses, so they can come in and clean. All of our stuff gets put away so they can do their job.

Though it is a pain sometimes, we’ve really grown to love that regular cycle.[/quote]

That is very smart! Cleaners will clean, but they don’t put away stuff laying about.

[NotCranky]

You can wonder about anyone , that’s just true. Your wondering is guided by who you are, where you stand, but it doesn’t make you superior, just selective.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=Rhett]

From a microbiology point of view, making your bed immediately in the morning is actually leaving it dirtier. People sweat, drool, etc., which leaves their bottom (fitted) sheet moist and teaming will all sorts of little critters. If you don’t give that proper time to dry out, you essentially are creating a Petri dish to sleep in.

Definitely make it before you have company, or in the middle of the day. If you want it to look “neat” when it is unmade, then have the sheets neatly folded when they are turned back. But don’t assume keeping a bed made is keeping it cleaner. LOL[/quote]

That’s why I only use white sheets and never jump in bed before taking a shower.

I was trained well. My mom was a neat freak; she was not strong like a tiger mom, but made sure that the house was clean.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not afraid of dirt. I’ve traveled to dusty villages on the other side of the world for weeks at a time. But, at home, in America, there is no reason not to use the advantages that we have.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=scaredyclassic] It is weird. I wonder if it’s getting worse. I kinda remember tidy being the norm when I was little at others houses…[/quote]

I remember the same thing.

If you’re ready to receive guests the same day, then it’s a sign that you’re in the neat category.

When I was a kid, we used to drop by friends’ houses very frequently. Tidy was more the norm.

Also, I remember that housewives had to iron everything. That itself was a big job. Nowadays, people don’t iron anymore, hardly.

[zk]

[quote=FlyerInHi]
Some neighborhoods have candy wrappers, potato chip bags, shopping bags and other litter flying about. Let’s not forget messy yards and junky cars. Is that important in the big picture?

The details do add up.[/quote]

The people who live in those neighborhoods might drive through your neighborhood or look at your house and think you’re uptight, stuffy, even neurotic.

So far you’ve avoided the questions I’m really curious about the answers to:

Do you think messy is inferior? If so, why?

[FlyerInHi]

Superior, inferior.. those are such loaded words.

But yes, clean, tidy people are superior. Superior in upbringing, and personal discipline.

I believe that clean people have their lives together more.

Piles of laundry, moldy bathrooms, and messed up lives kinda go together. Not to say that messy people have messed up lives, but people who have messed up lives live in messed-up, messy environments.

I would surmise that clean people like your wife would never get into drugs or involved with the wrong crowd simply because they could not bear the messy, dirty environments.

Messy people are more happy go lucky and they could more easily be induced into joining “fun” crowds.

(I’m not talking about rich people who can buy anything they want. That’s a different group).

Also superior in the sense that cleanliness and tidiness are traits that we value over messiness. The art of being tidy is taught in school, academies. It’s strictly enforced in the military and other environments.

Tidiness is associated with beauty and a pleasant environment. When you go to Switzerland, you admire the Swiss for their cleanliness.

[zk]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Superior, inferior.. those are such loaded words.

But yes, clean, tidy people are superior. Superior in upbringing, and personal discipline.

I believe that clean people have their lives together more.

Piles of laundry, moldy bathrooms, and messed up lives kinda go together. Not to say that messy people have messed up lives, but people who have messed up lives live in messed-up, messy environments.

I would surmise that clean people like your wife would never get into drugs or involved with the wrong crowd simply because they could not bear the messy, dirty environments.

Messy people are more happy go lucky and they could more easily be induced into joining “fun” crowds.

(I’m not talking about rich people who can buy anything they want. That’s a different group).

Also superior is the sense that cleanliness and tidiness are traits that we value over messiness. The art of being tidy is taught in school, academies. It’s strictly enforced in the military and other environments.

Tidiness is associated with beauty and a pleasant environment. When you go to Switzerland, you admire the Swiss for their cleanliness.[/quote]

Brian, your narrow-mindedness is spectacular. (I’ll explain if you or anybody else wants, but I think your narrow-mindedness speaks for itself).

Also, it seems you have real trouble understanding that your opinions are not shared by the rest of the world. Maybe it’s just the way you phrase things. But you consistently (in this thread and others) seem to indicate that you think your opinions are universally-held views. And yet you come across as somebody who considers himself enlightened and cosmopolitan (although I could be wrong about that). An interesting contradiction.

[NotCranky]

People who had pesto on toast for lunch today are superior.

[FlyerInHi]

zk, yes, please explain.

I know I’ll dig myself further in the spectacular narrow-mindedness hole by saying this but I’ll do it anyway:

Yes, I do think that messy people know there’s something wrong with them.

#1. If they were so sure that messiness is normal, then why are they embarrassed to invite people over to a messy house? If one is confident about oneself, just show the house like one normally keeps it.

#2. Messy people do like and appreciate cleanliness but they don’t have the discipline to keep their own houses clean. But when they go somewhere, they expect clean. I’ll illustrate: I’ve traveled and shared hotel rooms with messy people. I’m clean so I don’t need room service everyday (but I will leave appropriate tips anyway). The messy people insist on daily room service (which in my mind is proof that they expect perfection when they don’t have to do it themselves).

Also, in a developing country, the messy people complain when a hotel or restaurant is not up to their American expectations. They fail to consider the price to value ratio. And they are fussy about where to stay and eat.

Maybe I’m conflating messy with dirty, but I do think the 2 go hand in hand (not always, but usually).

I’m not fussy nor demanding of service (especially when the price to value ratio is right), but I do observe and judge.

I was recently looking at investment properties with and friend and his gf. It was a lower-middle neighborhood. The gf is a messy person, but she commented about the messy neighborhood which she didn’t like… blah, blah, blah. I wanted to say “yeah, you should be talking. this is an investment for god’s sake. you get what you pay for!”

[NotCranky]

No, you are conflating cleanliness habits with individual inferiority/superiority. You can’t know who is better than whom unless you go back and somehow swap them at birth and see how they compared. In any case taking one item of life , which can easily be viewed as superficial and measuring human worth by it is a big fail to most people. You do that a lot.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=zk] Also, it seems you have real trouble understanding that your opinions are not shared by the rest of the world. Maybe it’s just the way you phrase things. But you consistently (in this thread and others) seem to indicate that you think your opinions are universally-held views. [/quote]

If tidiness is not a universally held view, then why, ahead of major events, do cities spend $ billions sprucing up and cleaning? They might as well save the money and show the real place like it’s been.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=Blogstar] In any case taking one item of life , which can easily be viewed as superficial and measuring human worth by it is a big fail to most people. You do that a lot.[/quote]

I don’t mean superior in terms of worthy of human life and dignity.

“Superior” has many different meanings. Take IQ. a high IQ is superior, no doubt about it.

[svelte]

[quote=FlyerInHi]

Also, I remember that housewives had to iron everything. That itself was a big job. Nowadays, people don’t iron anymore, hardly.[/quote]

I iron 2 to 3 days a week.

It’s because I buy cotton shirts.

I’ve found other fibers hold odor even after washing, so they have a very short life in my closet. Few things worse in life than putting on a freshly washed shirt that stinks. Cotton smells as fresh as new after washing.

But cotton wrinkles terribly…thus my need to iron several days a week.

[Coronita]

My seventh grade math teacher had a sign posted in front of his utterly cluttered desk…. I never forgot it….

“A clean desk is a sure sign of a sick mind”…

That said, I think there’s a big difference between being messy/disorganized (IE you have papers all over the place)…versus being unclean/filthy. The latter is imho disgusting…

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