OT: How one School District got rid of the Greedy Teachers Union

[scaredyclassic]

Money brings choices.

[an]

[quote=6packscaredy]Money brings choices.[/quote]
yep, status quo.

[CA renter]

[quote=AN][quote=CA renter]You have an incredible amount of freedom where education is concerned, but you don’t have that freedom at the taxpayer’s expense. We ALL pay taxes for things we don’t like and/or don’t use. That is the price we ALL pay for living in a civilized democracy.

We homeschool and get NO public funding, subsidies, or support of any kind (some can get public funding if they HS through a public school or publicly-funded private charter). I’m willing to bet that we pay some of the highest property taxes (the primary funding source for public schools) in the county, relatively speaking. We’re not asking for “our” money back, in the same way that the senior citizens or childless people can’t ask for their prop tax money to be returned. And people who never use parks or libraries, etc. don’t get to ask for their tax money to be returned, either.

California has some of the most liberal laws WRT schooling and/or homeschooling. You can pretty much do whatever you want. You can replicate the LJCD education at home, if you wish. You can hire private tutors, or take your kids around the world, or do pretty much whatever you want. Can you do it on the taxpayer dime? No, but why should you be able to do so? Your taxes entitle your (and everyone else’s) children to an education at a public school. That’s all you’re entitled to; nothing more. Whatever you want to do in addition to that, or outside of that, is on your dime.[/quote]Thanks for proving my point that there is very little choice in our current system. You fail to see that the freedom you’re talking about is strictly reserved for the rich. The dual income middle class and below do not have the same freedom you described.

I’ve never said anything about getting my tax dollar back. I just want every kid to have the same opportunity whether you’re rich or poor. Which is why I take huge offense to your claim that we all have a lot of choices and freedom. It’s easier for those who are rich to say that we do, because they can afford those freedom.

As for California school, again, we CANNOT do whatever we want. Only the rich can do whatever they want because they can afford it. Those who are not rich, well, you’re SOL.

The key objection from me is your statement that we all have a lot of choice and not that I want my tax dollar back. FYI, I’m fully aware of the status quo and I’ve accepted that. That doesn’t mean I have to accept the lies that all parents have a lot of choice in where to send their kids to school.

I want my tax dollar to educate all the kids with the best school, be it private or public. I want all kids to have that opportunity, not just the rich. I’m not asking for higher taxes to do it. I just want parents to have the choice, and not be stuck with no choice due to their economic status.[/quote]

Welcome to reality. This is the case for almost everything. Rich people get to eat better food, get better healthcare, get better deals and discounts (even though they’re the ones who need them least), take longer and better vacations, drive nicer cars, live in nicer houses, wear nicer clothing, etc. Rich people get to send their kids to more prestigious universities where their kids will make better connections with which they can improve their lot and the well-being of following generations. It’s not fair, but it’s reality. Gosh, AN, are you suggesting that we make sure we give every the same quality and quantity of goods and services, no matter who pays for them? Sounds like communism to me. 😉

And, in general, while rich people pay a much lower percentage of their income/wealth on taxes, they DO pay higher property taxes which is what funds the bulk of K-12 public education.

I know homeschoolers who are some of the poorest people around; but they believe that education is a priority, so they make tremendous sacrifices in order to give their kids a good education. Homeschooling is NOT just for the rich. Also, many religious private schools offer discounts. In California, we are very fortunate to have a wide array of choices…for all people. We have far more choices in education than we do in a lot of other things.

[an]

[quote=CA renter]Welcome to reality. This is the case for almost everything. Rich people get to eat better food, get better healthcare, get better deals and discounts (even though they’re the ones who need them least), take longer and better vacations, drive nicer cars, live in nicer houses, wear nicer clothing, etc. Rich people get to send their kids to more prestigious universities where their kids will make better connections with which they can improve their lot and the well-being of following generations. It’s not fair, but it’s reality. Gosh, AN, are you suggesting that we make sure we give every the same quality and quantity of goods and services, no matter who pays for them? Sounds like communism to me. 😉

And, in general, while rich people pay a much lower percentage of their income/wealth on taxes, they DO pay higher property taxes which is what funds the bulk of K-12 public education.

I know homeschoolers who are some of the poorest people around; but they believe that education is a priority, so they make tremendous sacrifices in order to give their kids a good education. Homeschooling is NOT just for the rich. Also, many religious private schools offer discounts. In California, we are very fortunate to have a wide array of choices…for all people. We have far more choices in education than we do in a lot of other things.[/quote]Of course it’s a reality with the strength of the teacher’s union in CA. We’re gonna be stuck w/ the status quo for a very long time. I don’t expect anything to change. Just pointing out your lies of the freedom and choices that you think we have. I’m the one who’s fully aware of the reality. You’re the one who seems to not see it.

I want our tax dollar to go further and do a better job at educating our kids, regardless of socio-economic status. To some, healthcare is important for all, to me, education is important for all. We are paying much more per child for public education than most of the private schools (in San Diego). I don’t think we’re getting our money’s worth and I want the parents to have all the choices they want to best educate their kids. You seem to be satisfied with the status quo, I’m fully aware of that. But that’s definitely not be.

Rich people pay a much lower percentage of their income/wealth on property taxes as well. But you seem to left out that point when it comes to property taxes compare to their income taxes. Why?

As to those poor home schoolers you know, that’s great. But why do other people who don’t want to or can’t afford to live on 1 income have the same choice of giving their kids a better education? It great that you think home schooling is great. I don’t. But that’s JMHO. Sorry but CA don’t have very much choices, AFAIK.

[paramount]

Biggest problem in California: One Party Rule.

[CA renter]

[quote=paramount]Biggest problem in California: One Party Rule.[/quote]

The Corporate/Finance Party is the only party that matters in this country, and they are behind most of our problems — from deficits, debt bubbles, a disappearing middle class, falling wages and purchasing power, societal degradation — the corporate/financial elite are behind all of it.

[CA renter]

AN,

No, we do have the freedom, but if you don’t want to make the sacrifices to make it happen, don’t blame anyone else.

Regarding that “second income,” all too often, the second income earner is working at a loss, especially if they are working for low wages. After taxes, clothing expenses, higher food expenses (like it or not, when both people work, they’re more likely to eat out), higher transportation costs (gas, insurance, accelerated maintenance, accelerated car purchases, etc.), childcare expenses, etc…so many people are actually working for negative earnings, especially among those who are working for low wages to begin with.

And you need to re-check those numbers on private vs public schools. Most private schools that are equal to or better than comparable public schools cost more, not less. The reason public schools appear to cost more per capita is because they educate, feed, and care for the most expensive students (special education/learning disabled, socially/economically disadvantaged, ESL, etc.) and have far more resources than private schools do, especially for these students. Public schools also have more qualified teachers, on average, than private schools.

Good schools are good because of the parents whose children attend those schools. The parents have the greatest impact on how students (and schools) perform. If you want your kids to do well, nurture their curiosity and interests, read to them, take them to museums, talk to them about a variety of topics, etc. That is the #1 way to make a difference in your child’s life…and it’s all free, or nearly so.

Oh, and get them the hell away from those electronic babysitters!

[an]

[quote=CA renter]AN,

No, we do have the freedom, but if you don’t want to make the sacrifices to make it happen, don’t blame anyone else.

Regarding that “second income,” all too often, the second income earner is working at a loss, especially if they are working for low wages. After taxes, clothing expenses, higher food expenses (like it or not, when both people work, they’re more likely to eat out), higher transportation costs (gas, insurance, accelerated maintenance, accelerated car purchases, etc.), childcare expenses, etc…so many people are actually working for negative earnings, especially among those who are working for low wages to begin with.

And you need to re-check those numbers on private vs public schools. Most private schools that are equal to or better than comparable public schools cost more, not less. The reason public schools appear to cost more per capita is because they educate, feed, and care for the most expensive students (special education/learning disabled, socially/economically disadvantaged, ESL, etc.) and have far more resources than private schools do, especially for these students. Public schools also have more qualified teachers, on average, than private schools.

Good schools are good because of the parents whose children attend those schools. The parents have the greatest impact on how students (and schools) perform. If you want your kids to do well, nurture their curiosity and interests, read to them, take them to museums, talk to them about a variety of topics, etc. That is the #1 way to make a difference in your child’s life…and it’s all free, or nearly so.

Oh, and get them the hell away from those electronic babysitters![/quote]Who said I’m not making sacrifices? However, that’s besides the point. It doesn’t matter what I do/sacrifice, I say it like it is. I don’t see our system as having very many choices. I’m fully aware of your persuasion with the teachers union, so, I’m certain this conversation will go no where. Just stating it like how I see it, as a parent.

I would say the feminist movement will disagree with your assessment of second earner greatly. I’ll leave that at that.

I’ve rechecked my numbers many times. Public schools in SDUSD are spending about $12-13k/student. There are a lot of private schools that are charging <$10k. Good Montessori schools that feed into LJCD/Bishops/etc. are charging $10k/student. So, yes it's much cheaper. Here's a kicker, even with less $ per student, the Montessori I'm referring to have a class size of 12 to 1 for 1-3rd grade and 20 to 1 there after. That's well bellow the class size of SDUSD schools. I'm hearing class sizes of 30-35 to 1 student to teacher ratio. It doesn't matter how good you are, if you have to deal w/ 2x as many students, you'll get much lower quality. I haven't even touched on the quality of the education. The kids in the montessori are taught Mandarin and Spanish from the Preschool level and continue through 6th grade. Then there are art/band/science/etc. So yeah, looking at the quality of the schools in SDUSD and then look at the many private schools out there, I don't buy that public schools are cheaper and better. If you truly believe that's the case, why not open up the voucher system and lets see what the parents/students will do. There's nothing to be afraid of if the public schools are really as good as you say it is.

[CA renter]

Once again:

Your taxes entitle your (and everyone else’s) children to an education at a public school. That’s all you’re entitled to; nothing more. Whatever you want to do in addition to that, or outside of that, is on your dime.

[Coronita]

[quote=AN][quote=CA renter]AN,

No, we do have the freedom, but if you don’t want to make the sacrifices to make it happen, don’t blame anyone else.

Regarding that “second income,” all too often, the second income earner is working at a loss, especially if they are working for low wages. After taxes, clothing expenses, higher food expenses (like it or not, when both people work, they’re more likely to eat out), higher transportation costs (gas, insurance, accelerated maintenance, accelerated car purchases, etc.), childcare expenses, etc…so many people are actually working for negative earnings, especially among those who are working for low wages to begin with.

And you need to re-check those numbers on private vs public schools. Most private schools that are equal to or better than comparable public schools cost more, not less. The reason public schools appear to cost more per capita is because they educate, feed, and care for the most expensive students (special education/learning disabled, socially/economically disadvantaged, ESL, etc.) and have far more resources than private schools do, especially for these students. Public schools also have more qualified teachers, on average, than private schools.

Good schools are good because of the parents whose children attend those schools. The parents have the greatest impact on how students (and schools) perform. If you want your kids to do well, nurture their curiosity and interests, read to them, take them to museums, talk to them about a variety of topics, etc. That is the #1 way to make a difference in your child’s life…and it’s all free, or nearly so.

Oh, and get them the hell away from those electronic babysitters![/quote]Who said I’m not making sacrifices? However, that’s besides the point. It doesn’t matter what I do/sacrifice, I say it like it is. I don’t see our system as having very many choices. I’m fully aware of your persuasion with the teachers union, so, I’m certain this conversation will go no where. Just stating it like how I see it, as a parent.

I would say the feminist movement will disagree with your assessment of second earner greatly. I’ll leave that at that.

I’ve rechecked my numbers many times. Public schools in SDUSD are spending about $12-13k/student. There are a lot of private schools that are charging <$10k. Good Montessori schools that feed into LJCD/Bishops/etc. are charging $10k/student. So, yes it's much cheaper. Here's a kicker, even with less $ per student, the Montessori I'm referring to have a class size of 12 to 1 for 1-3rd grade and 20 to 1 there after. That's well bellow the class size of SDUSD schools. I'm hearing class sizes of 30-35 to 1 student to teacher ratio. It doesn't matter how good you are, if you have to deal w/ 2x as many students, you'll get much lower quality. I haven't even touched on the quality of the education. The kids in the montessori are taught Mandarin and Spanish from the Preschool level and continue through 6th grade. Then there are art/band/science/etc. So yeah, looking at the quality of the schools in SDUSD and then look at the many private schools out there, I don't buy that public schools are cheaper and better. If you truly believe that's the case, why not open up the voucher system and lets see what the parents/students will do. There's nothing to be afraid of if the public schools are really as good as you say it is.[/quote] Happy holidays an.

[all]

[quote=AN] The kids in the montessori are taught Mandarin and Spanish from the Preschool level and continue through 6th grade. Then there are art/band/science/etc.[/quote]

What about rainbow looming?

[livinincali]

[quote=CA renter]Public schools also have more qualified teachers, on average, than private schools.
[/quote]

I know one thing that public schools have a lot more of than private schools. Administrative staff. In SDUSD there’s about 15,000 employees and only about 7,000-7,500 are actually class room teachers. I’m pretty sure you average private school doesn’t have a one to one ratio of non teaching staff to teaching staff.

[an]

[quote=CA renter]Once again:

Your taxes entitle your (and everyone else’s) children to an education at a public school. That’s all you’re entitled to; nothing more. Whatever you want to do in addition to that, or outside of that, is on your dime.[/quote]
once again, that’s the status quo. I am fully aware of it. Some are fine with it and some are not. I want more choice for everyone and I want to make our tax dollar go further with more competition and choices. I know that will disrupt the status quo. I don’t expect it to happen in CA.

[paramount]

[quote=AN][quote=CA renter]Once again:

Your taxes entitle your (and everyone else’s) children to an education at a public school. That’s all you’re entitled to; nothing more. Whatever you want to do in addition to that, or outside of that, is on your dime.[/quote]
once again, that’s the status quo. I am fully aware of it. Some are fine with it and some are not. I want more choice for everyone and I want to make our tax dollar go further with more competition and choices. I know that will disrupt the status quo. I don’t expect it to happen in CA.[/quote]

You’re right it won’t happen – the state assembly in California and the governor work exclusively for public employee unions/CTA. In fact, the CTA LITERALLY writes laws for themselves and then selects a state senator that WILL introduce and pass the measure.

In Sacramento this is known as ‘sponsored legislation’ or really they’re a payoff.

Some examples:

http://www.cta.org/Issues-and-Action/Legislation/Sponsored-Legislation.aspx

[jeff303]

[quote=paramount]
You’re right it won’t happen – the state assembly in California and the governor work exclusively for public employee unions/CTA. In fact, the CTA LITERALLY writes laws for themselves and then selects a state senator that WILL introduce and pass the measure.[/quote]

Interesting, sounds a lot like ALEC.

[Author]

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