OT: Good news for those with kids in school

[jstoesz]

again, on a school by school basis, but I am very much in favor of segregated (by sex obvipusly) classes. Especially in jr high and high school, that and uniforms.

[Diego Mamani]

[quote=jstoesz]again, on a school by school basis, but I am very much in favor of segregated (by sex obvipusly) classes. Especially in jr high and high school, that and uniforms.[/quote]
I read that, on average, boys do better in co-ed schools, while girls do better in all-girls schools. But I’m not sure how strong the evidence is.

[EconProf]

Long, long ago I taught a year of high school English. In comparing classes, an iron rule quickly emerged: The smaller the class, the easier to teach. More dialog with each student, fewer discipline problems, more control, fewer papers to correct, etc.
So naturally teachers favor smaller classes, especially when they can pitch it to the public as better for the students. I’m sure that the required hiring of more unionized teachers has nothing to do with their position.
But the research unmistakenly shows very little correlation between class size and student performance. Sounds counterintuitive. I think it is because teachers prepare more and get “up” for a bigger class. Less informality, more organized and hard-hitting lectures, and tighter discipline are necessary to keep them on task. Naturally, that is more work for the teacher.

[Anonymous]

[quote=jstoesz]The link makes mention of this…after 6th grade according to most studies class size makes little or no difference.[/quote]

Ok, so it only makes a difference for more than half the years of K-12 education. I’d call that a difference.

[quote]Just ask homeschooler parents home many hours of instruction they need to give to keep their kids on track.[/quote]

Yeah, asking homeschooler parents is a great way to get the “facts.”

BTW, what is the class size in a home school?

Have there been any unbiased studies done on homeschooling that show its effectiveness vs. public education?

Here’s a good overview of what we really know about homeschooling performance:

http://www.stanford.edu/group/reichresearch/cgi-bin/site/2011/01/05/home-schooling/

[…] we know astonishingly little about the academic performance of children who are homeschooled. The sad truth about home schooling is that we have little more than glorified anecdotes.

…

Absent rigorous, social scientific data on the outcomes of home schooling, we are left in the realm of anecdote – the home schoolers who win the National Spelling Bees – and the occasional ethnographic study of small populations of home schoolers.[3] But neither can give us any picture of whether home schooling “works”. The very best research on home schooling – the combination of random samples of large populations and ethnographic studies, yields some good information about the reasons why people home school and demographic characteristics of their households. But when we look at the academic performance of home schooled children, the bottom line is that we know virtually nothing.

[fun4vnay2]

went to school in India where class size in high school was 60+, very high academic standard and quite disciplined.

[sdrealtor]

It’s good to hear they are successfully reducing class sizes in India also

[briansd1]

[quote=rockingtime]went to school in India where class size in high school was 60+, very high academic standard and quite disciplined.[/quote]

American teenagers, especially in the lower social-economic rungs, are disrespectful and out of control. Teachers and administrators can’t control them. Suspension doesn’t work. They should bring back caning of misbehaving school children.

[briansd1]

I doubt that voters have the appetite for more taxes.

It worked in the past where the threat of cuts always brought more taxes and money to the schools. But after a bruising recession and slow recovery, voters may just turn down new taxes.

I believe that continued cuts to services are the way forward.

[enron_by_the_sea]

[quote=briansd1]

American teenagers, especially in the lower social-economic rungs, are disrespectful and out of control. Teachers and administrators can’t control them. [/quote]

And if that is true, how does lower class size solve that problem?

[briansd1]

[quote=enron_by_the_sea][quote=briansd1]

American teenagers, especially in the lower social-economic rungs, are disrespectful and out of control. Teachers and administrators can’t control them. [/quote]

And if that is true, how does lower class size solve that problem?[/quote]

As econprof said, small class size is easier for the teachers. It’s easier to manager 5 unruly kids than 10.

There are social benefits to smaller class size (more interaction with teacher and more personal attention make everyone feel good).

But, as others said, I don’t believe that academic performance is correlated to class size. You can enforce discipline if you give teachers more tools to control the kids.

[sdrealtor]

Yeah Brian we know. Tools like canes.

[dumbrenter]

[quote=briansd1][quote=rockingtime]went to school in India where class size in high school was 60+, very high academic standard and quite disciplined.[/quote]

American teenagers, especially in the lower social-economic rungs, are disrespectful and out of control. Teachers and administrators can’t control them. Suspension doesn’t work. They should bring back caning of misbehaving school children.[/quote]

Wow, we went past the race and quickly zoomed to “socio-economic” stuff. Or is this a code word for black folks?

[dumbrenter]

Haven’t you all heard of the new research conclusions about various factors of success in school? Researchers have found that it is not culture, ethnicity, teachers or class size that determines success at school.
Apparently it all came down to how much parents were involved with their kids education. It was found that performance improved by 94% when parents took time off at great personal cost to ask their kids simple questions like “how was school today?”, “are you current with your homework?”, “do you need help with studies?”.

Who would have ever made the connection between involved parents and success at school? Amazing.

[Anonymous]

“I read somewhere that size doesn’t matter.”

Where have I heard that before?

Y’all are missing the point. Of course parent involvement is the overwhelming factor in the educational success of children.

But aren’t talking about parent involvement. We are talking about the component of education that you pay for.

Maybe it’s not as important as other factors, but you are getting less, for the same cost.

Seriously, if class size didn’t matter then let’s fire all the teachers and just have one for each grade. Twenty, thirty, one-hundred students per class…according to the logic I am hearing in these posts, it’s all the same.

[CA renter]

With larger class sizes, you tend to get more worksheets, more scantron-type tests, less personal interaction between students and teachers, and there is also a greater risk of kids in need “slipping through the cracks.”

Of course, kids who are accustomed to worksheets and T/F or multiple-choice tests tend to do about as well on standardized tests as kids who are taught using methods that emphasize critical thinking skills, but I don’t think those tests are the best way to evaluate educational outcomes. These tests are good and necessary, but not really indicative of the quality of education received in the classroom, IMO.

I’ve worked under both conditions — pre and post-CSR — and there is no question about the benefit of a smaller class size, IMHO. With a smaller class, the teacher knows when a student is falling behind or improving rapidly, and why. They are able to intervene more quickly and effectively, often having enough time to dedicate some time one-on-one every day or two. I was able to spend 1:1 time with each student almost every day, and the students made tremendous improvements because of it.

That being said, smaller class sizes are much more expensive, so in an environment where everyone is ranting and raving about budget deficits, it’s expected that the CSR program would take a hit. Education is the state’s #1 expenditure at ~40% of the state’s budget. Pensions, on the other hand, represent about 3-5% of the state’s budget.

http://www.dof.ca.gov/budgeting/budget_faqs/#1

Don’t forget all the savings we get to see as a result of getting rid of all of those “government parasites” in the classroom…and we get to eliminate pension contributions for them, too!!! You should be cheering for this, Pri!

[Author]

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