OT: Get vaccinated or get fired

[Zeitgeist]

The drug company GlaxoSmithKline was recently contracted by Canada to manufacture 50.4 million doses of Swine flu or H1N1 vaccine. Drug companies Baxter Pharmaceuticals and Novartis Pharmaceuticals have been commissioned to manufacture the vaccine for the U.S.

Both GlaxoSmithKline and Novartis are using the substance squalene in their H1N1 vaccines. According to The American Journal of Pathology, squalene is a cholesterol precursor which stimulates the immune system nonspecifically. One intradermal injection—or shot—of this adjuvant lipid can induce joint-specific inflammation in arthritis-prone rats.

Novartis’ squalene adjuvant was used in the experimental anthrax vaccines for soldiers serving in the Gulf War and has been linked to Gulf War Syndrome, the devastating auto-immune disease suffered by Gulf War veterans who took the anthrax shots.

Symptoms of Gulf War Syndrome include ulcers, arthritis, chronic diarrhea, fatigue and headaches, dizziness, fibromyalgia, memory loss, mood changes, multiple sclerosis, neuropsychiatric problems, rashes, skin lesions, photosensitive rashes and systemic lupus, according to osteopathic physician Joseph Mercola, M.D.On Dr. Mercola’s website, anthrax vaccine expert Meryl Nass, M.D., wrote:

A novel feature of the two H1N1 vaccines being developed by companies Novartis and GlaxoSmithKline is the addition of squalene-containing adjuvants to boost immunogenicity and dramatically reduce the amount of viral antigen needed. This translates to much faster production of desired vaccine quantities.Dr. Nass also writes that the squalene adjuvants have not been approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for use in any U.S. vaccine.

And then there’s Baxter. In 2008, Baxter produced a contaminated blood thinner called heparin that had to be recalled by the FDA. It resulted in at least 81 deaths and hundreds of injuries. The active ingredient for heparin was produced in a Chinese factory that had never been inspected by the FDA.

Earlier this year it was reported that Baxter shipped what could be a weaponized version of the H591 Avian flu virus to at least 18 countries in a vaccine. The vaccine contained a live virus that had been mixed with seasonal flu viruses. The combination would have created a super-strain of virus that would have spread much more readily than normal Avian flu.

Curiously, Baxter applied for a patent for the H1N1 flu vaccine in August 2008, eight months before the H1N1 virus appeared in Mexico. This for a type of virus that had not manifested itself for more than 30 years.

In July the drug companies were given immunity from liability for the vaccines and the immunizations are about to begin with very little testing. Again, drug companies stand to make millions of dollars without fear of consequences if things go horribly wrong.

Appearing suddenly in April, the origins of the virus have either not been discovered or are known but not being revealed to the general public. Writing for the Institute of Science in Society, Professor Adrian Gibbs and Dr. Jean Downie have studied the gene sequences of the H1N1 virus and determined the virus is a combination unlike any seen in the past.

Furthermore, none of the genes that make up the virus have been seen for a long time. It appears to be a combination of Swine flu not seen in North America in more than a decade and Avian flu found in Europe but never in North America.

Gibbs and Downie posit the virus emanated either from a vaccine made specifically for pigs, accidentally from an infected human working for a drug company or intentionally released into the Mexican population.

Remembering the scare that didn’t materialize in 1976 and recognizing the hyperbole coming out of government organizations, many Americans are casting a wary eye toward the prospects of vaccination. Many of those are saying no immunization, no way.

Recognizing that their scaremongering tactics aren’t working, governments are now starting to ramp up their intimidation tactics. New York just decreed that all health workers are required to be immunized and New Jersey has mandated the same for all children in day care and preschool.

Presidential advisor and former Congressman Rham Emanuel once stated, “You should never want a serious crisis to go to waste.” Those currently in charge are doing their dead-level best not to waste this manufactured one.

If government gets away with forcing its citizens to receive a drug against their will, one more chunk will have been removed from the wall separating liberty from tyranny.

[DWCAP]

[quote=ucodegen]One thing I have wondered about is that in the process of using flu-vaccines and antibiotics on a regular basis; are we conditioning our bodies to not mount an all out defense from an infection? After all.. it is only a trial run and not the real thing.[/quote]

That isnt how it works. Vaccines teach your immune system how to kill whatever was in the vaccine. The reason why you get a flu shot, and can still get the flu, is because there are multiple strains of the flu. You are protected against 3, but can still catch something else. Vaccines, atleast in theory (dont know about these chemicals that are being added, but let me say just about anything can cause some inflamation in artheritic rats) make your immune system stronger, not weaker.

Think of it like a mother cat teaching her kittens to hunt. She catches and wounds a mouse, and then puts it infront of the kittens who dont know what the Frak to do. Eventually they get the idea, and they learn to hunt healthy mice. They never would have been in the ball park, unless they get to learn with a wounded mouse who cant get away. Its trial and error in a safe environment so when the ‘real thing’ comes along, your body knows what to do, or ‘how to hunt’. (As an asside this is why it is really important to let your kids be kids and play in the dirt and such. Exposure to alot of stuff now will allow your kids to be healthier later on.)

Antibiotics plunt the edge off bacterial infections, but your immune system still learns. The real problem with antibiotics is overuse and improper use. Taking antibiotics just until you feel better is a bad idea, you are letting the bacteria learn how to survive against it. Same as taking antibiotics when you dont need them, they wont do jack against a virus. Then, when you really need the antibiotics, they do you no good because the bacteria is immune to it.

Bacteria are living organisms that grow and evolve. Using anti-biotics applys a selective force against them that just makes them stronger later on.

[DWCAP]

[quote=ucodegen]One thing I have wondered about is that in the process of using flu-vaccines and antibiotics on a regular basis; are we conditioning our bodies to not mount an all out defense from an infection? After all.. it is only a trial run and not the real thing.[/quote]

That isnt how it works. Vaccines teach your immune system how to kill whatever was in the vaccine. The reason why you get a flu shot, and can still get the flu, is because there are multiple strains of the flu. You are protected against 3, but can still catch something else. Vaccines, atleast in theory (dont know about these chemicals that are being added, but let me say just about anything can cause some inflamation in artheritic rats) make your immune system stronger, not weaker.

Think of it like a mother cat teaching her kittens to hunt. She catches and wounds a mouse, and then puts it infront of the kittens who dont know what the Frak to do. Eventually they get the idea, and they learn to hunt healthy mice. They never would have been in the ball park, unless they get to learn with a wounded mouse who cant get away. Its trial and error in a safe environment so when the ‘real thing’ comes along, your body knows what to do, or ‘how to hunt’. (As an asside this is why it is really important to let your kids be kids and play in the dirt and such. Exposure to alot of stuff now will allow your kids to be healthier later on.)

Antibiotics plunt the edge off bacterial infections, but your immune system still learns. The real problem with antibiotics is overuse and improper use. Taking antibiotics just until you feel better is a bad idea, you are letting the bacteria learn how to survive against it. Same as taking antibiotics when you dont need them, they wont do jack against a virus. Then, when you really need the antibiotics, they do you no good because the bacteria is immune to it.

Bacteria are living organisms that grow and evolve. Using anti-biotics applys a selective force against them that just makes them stronger later on.

[DWCAP]

[quote=ucodegen]One thing I have wondered about is that in the process of using flu-vaccines and antibiotics on a regular basis; are we conditioning our bodies to not mount an all out defense from an infection? After all.. it is only a trial run and not the real thing.[/quote]

That isnt how it works. Vaccines teach your immune system how to kill whatever was in the vaccine. The reason why you get a flu shot, and can still get the flu, is because there are multiple strains of the flu. You are protected against 3, but can still catch something else. Vaccines, atleast in theory (dont know about these chemicals that are being added, but let me say just about anything can cause some inflamation in artheritic rats) make your immune system stronger, not weaker.

Think of it like a mother cat teaching her kittens to hunt. She catches and wounds a mouse, and then puts it infront of the kittens who dont know what the Frak to do. Eventually they get the idea, and they learn to hunt healthy mice. They never would have been in the ball park, unless they get to learn with a wounded mouse who cant get away. Its trial and error in a safe environment so when the ‘real thing’ comes along, your body knows what to do, or ‘how to hunt’. (As an asside this is why it is really important to let your kids be kids and play in the dirt and such. Exposure to alot of stuff now will allow your kids to be healthier later on.)

Antibiotics plunt the edge off bacterial infections, but your immune system still learns. The real problem with antibiotics is overuse and improper use. Taking antibiotics just until you feel better is a bad idea, you are letting the bacteria learn how to survive against it. Same as taking antibiotics when you dont need them, they wont do jack against a virus. Then, when you really need the antibiotics, they do you no good because the bacteria is immune to it.

Bacteria are living organisms that grow and evolve. Using anti-biotics applys a selective force against them that just makes them stronger later on.

[DWCAP]

[quote=ucodegen]One thing I have wondered about is that in the process of using flu-vaccines and antibiotics on a regular basis; are we conditioning our bodies to not mount an all out defense from an infection? After all.. it is only a trial run and not the real thing.[/quote]

That isnt how it works. Vaccines teach your immune system how to kill whatever was in the vaccine. The reason why you get a flu shot, and can still get the flu, is because there are multiple strains of the flu. You are protected against 3, but can still catch something else. Vaccines, atleast in theory (dont know about these chemicals that are being added, but let me say just about anything can cause some inflamation in artheritic rats) make your immune system stronger, not weaker.

Think of it like a mother cat teaching her kittens to hunt. She catches and wounds a mouse, and then puts it infront of the kittens who dont know what the Frak to do. Eventually they get the idea, and they learn to hunt healthy mice. They never would have been in the ball park, unless they get to learn with a wounded mouse who cant get away. Its trial and error in a safe environment so when the ‘real thing’ comes along, your body knows what to do, or ‘how to hunt’. (As an asside this is why it is really important to let your kids be kids and play in the dirt and such. Exposure to alot of stuff now will allow your kids to be healthier later on.)

Antibiotics plunt the edge off bacterial infections, but your immune system still learns. The real problem with antibiotics is overuse and improper use. Taking antibiotics just until you feel better is a bad idea, you are letting the bacteria learn how to survive against it. Same as taking antibiotics when you dont need them, they wont do jack against a virus. Then, when you really need the antibiotics, they do you no good because the bacteria is immune to it.

Bacteria are living organisms that grow and evolve. Using anti-biotics applys a selective force against them that just makes them stronger later on.

[DWCAP]

[quote=ucodegen]One thing I have wondered about is that in the process of using flu-vaccines and antibiotics on a regular basis; are we conditioning our bodies to not mount an all out defense from an infection? After all.. it is only a trial run and not the real thing.[/quote]

That isnt how it works. Vaccines teach your immune system how to kill whatever was in the vaccine. The reason why you get a flu shot, and can still get the flu, is because there are multiple strains of the flu. You are protected against 3, but can still catch something else. Vaccines, atleast in theory (dont know about these chemicals that are being added, but let me say just about anything can cause some inflamation in artheritic rats) make your immune system stronger, not weaker.

Think of it like a mother cat teaching her kittens to hunt. She catches and wounds a mouse, and then puts it infront of the kittens who dont know what the Frak to do. Eventually they get the idea, and they learn to hunt healthy mice. They never would have been in the ball park, unless they get to learn with a wounded mouse who cant get away. Its trial and error in a safe environment so when the ‘real thing’ comes along, your body knows what to do, or ‘how to hunt’. (As an asside this is why it is really important to let your kids be kids and play in the dirt and such. Exposure to alot of stuff now will allow your kids to be healthier later on.)

Antibiotics plunt the edge off bacterial infections, but your immune system still learns. The real problem with antibiotics is overuse and improper use. Taking antibiotics just until you feel better is a bad idea, you are letting the bacteria learn how to survive against it. Same as taking antibiotics when you dont need them, they wont do jack against a virus. Then, when you really need the antibiotics, they do you no good because the bacteria is immune to it.

Bacteria are living organisms that grow and evolve. Using anti-biotics applys a selective force against them that just makes them stronger later on.

[ucodegen]

That isnt how it works. Vaccines teach your immune system how to kill whatever was in the vaccine…

Vaccines, atleast in theory (…) make your immune system stronger, not weaker.

I am quite aware of how vaccines work. Vaccines don’t make your immune system stronger though. This is why I wrote “are we conditioning our bodies to not mount an all out defense from an infection. After all.. it is only a trial run and not the real thing.”

What a vaccine does is ‘teach’ the immune system the antigens for a specific virus or groups of viruses by presenting the immune system with the proteins/polysaccharides from the outer shell of the virus. The virus is not viable in the vaccine. While doing this ‘primes’ the body to mount a defense, it also may create the problem that when presented with a real virus that the body has not yet seen, the body would attack it as if it were the antigens from a vaccine as opposed to a viable virus and not mount an all out attack because all of the previous times it was a vaccine and not the real thing. A vaccine can not continue the attack or grow the attack because the virus is not viable, it is only the protein/polysaccharide coat of the virus. A real virus would actually attack a cell and produce more copies of itself. The immune system has to move quickly and mount an all-out attack. The delay in or weak response to a new virus gives the virus time to get a better foothold.

Using the Mother cat/kitten analogy, overuse in vaccines might be like the mother cat never stopping the ‘teaching’. The kitten never learns the actual hunt.. but only ‘kills’ the food when it is presented.

When people who have never had the flu shot are given one for the first time, often they get very ill. That is because the body is reading it as a real attack and mounts an all-out offensive. It sees a crap load of foreign proteins/polysaccharides entering the body and ramps up fast. When flu shots are given to someone who regularly takes them, the body doesn’t ramp up as fast because you have taught it that while these proteins/polysaccharides are foreign, they don’t multiply/spread quickly.

The result may be a developed dependency on flu-vaccines because the body no longer ramps up fast enough to the real thing.

[ucodegen]

That isnt how it works. Vaccines teach your immune system how to kill whatever was in the vaccine…

Vaccines, atleast in theory (…) make your immune system stronger, not weaker.

I am quite aware of how vaccines work. Vaccines don’t make your immune system stronger though. This is why I wrote “are we conditioning our bodies to not mount an all out defense from an infection. After all.. it is only a trial run and not the real thing.”

What a vaccine does is ‘teach’ the immune system the antigens for a specific virus or groups of viruses by presenting the immune system with the proteins/polysaccharides from the outer shell of the virus. The virus is not viable in the vaccine. While doing this ‘primes’ the body to mount a defense, it also may create the problem that when presented with a real virus that the body has not yet seen, the body would attack it as if it were the antigens from a vaccine as opposed to a viable virus and not mount an all out attack because all of the previous times it was a vaccine and not the real thing. A vaccine can not continue the attack or grow the attack because the virus is not viable, it is only the protein/polysaccharide coat of the virus. A real virus would actually attack a cell and produce more copies of itself. The immune system has to move quickly and mount an all-out attack. The delay in or weak response to a new virus gives the virus time to get a better foothold.

Using the Mother cat/kitten analogy, overuse in vaccines might be like the mother cat never stopping the ‘teaching’. The kitten never learns the actual hunt.. but only ‘kills’ the food when it is presented.

When people who have never had the flu shot are given one for the first time, often they get very ill. That is because the body is reading it as a real attack and mounts an all-out offensive. It sees a crap load of foreign proteins/polysaccharides entering the body and ramps up fast. When flu shots are given to someone who regularly takes them, the body doesn’t ramp up as fast because you have taught it that while these proteins/polysaccharides are foreign, they don’t multiply/spread quickly.

The result may be a developed dependency on flu-vaccines because the body no longer ramps up fast enough to the real thing.

[ucodegen]

That isnt how it works. Vaccines teach your immune system how to kill whatever was in the vaccine…

Vaccines, atleast in theory (…) make your immune system stronger, not weaker.

I am quite aware of how vaccines work. Vaccines don’t make your immune system stronger though. This is why I wrote “are we conditioning our bodies to not mount an all out defense from an infection. After all.. it is only a trial run and not the real thing.”

What a vaccine does is ‘teach’ the immune system the antigens for a specific virus or groups of viruses by presenting the immune system with the proteins/polysaccharides from the outer shell of the virus. The virus is not viable in the vaccine. While doing this ‘primes’ the body to mount a defense, it also may create the problem that when presented with a real virus that the body has not yet seen, the body would attack it as if it were the antigens from a vaccine as opposed to a viable virus and not mount an all out attack because all of the previous times it was a vaccine and not the real thing. A vaccine can not continue the attack or grow the attack because the virus is not viable, it is only the protein/polysaccharide coat of the virus. A real virus would actually attack a cell and produce more copies of itself. The immune system has to move quickly and mount an all-out attack. The delay in or weak response to a new virus gives the virus time to get a better foothold.

Using the Mother cat/kitten analogy, overuse in vaccines might be like the mother cat never stopping the ‘teaching’. The kitten never learns the actual hunt.. but only ‘kills’ the food when it is presented.

When people who have never had the flu shot are given one for the first time, often they get very ill. That is because the body is reading it as a real attack and mounts an all-out offensive. It sees a crap load of foreign proteins/polysaccharides entering the body and ramps up fast. When flu shots are given to someone who regularly takes them, the body doesn’t ramp up as fast because you have taught it that while these proteins/polysaccharides are foreign, they don’t multiply/spread quickly.

The result may be a developed dependency on flu-vaccines because the body no longer ramps up fast enough to the real thing.

[ucodegen]

That isnt how it works. Vaccines teach your immune system how to kill whatever was in the vaccine…

Vaccines, atleast in theory (…) make your immune system stronger, not weaker.

I am quite aware of how vaccines work. Vaccines don’t make your immune system stronger though. This is why I wrote “are we conditioning our bodies to not mount an all out defense from an infection. After all.. it is only a trial run and not the real thing.”

What a vaccine does is ‘teach’ the immune system the antigens for a specific virus or groups of viruses by presenting the immune system with the proteins/polysaccharides from the outer shell of the virus. The virus is not viable in the vaccine. While doing this ‘primes’ the body to mount a defense, it also may create the problem that when presented with a real virus that the body has not yet seen, the body would attack it as if it were the antigens from a vaccine as opposed to a viable virus and not mount an all out attack because all of the previous times it was a vaccine and not the real thing. A vaccine can not continue the attack or grow the attack because the virus is not viable, it is only the protein/polysaccharide coat of the virus. A real virus would actually attack a cell and produce more copies of itself. The immune system has to move quickly and mount an all-out attack. The delay in or weak response to a new virus gives the virus time to get a better foothold.

Using the Mother cat/kitten analogy, overuse in vaccines might be like the mother cat never stopping the ‘teaching’. The kitten never learns the actual hunt.. but only ‘kills’ the food when it is presented.

When people who have never had the flu shot are given one for the first time, often they get very ill. That is because the body is reading it as a real attack and mounts an all-out offensive. It sees a crap load of foreign proteins/polysaccharides entering the body and ramps up fast. When flu shots are given to someone who regularly takes them, the body doesn’t ramp up as fast because you have taught it that while these proteins/polysaccharides are foreign, they don’t multiply/spread quickly.

The result may be a developed dependency on flu-vaccines because the body no longer ramps up fast enough to the real thing.

[ucodegen]

That isnt how it works. Vaccines teach your immune system how to kill whatever was in the vaccine…

Vaccines, atleast in theory (…) make your immune system stronger, not weaker.

I am quite aware of how vaccines work. Vaccines don’t make your immune system stronger though. This is why I wrote “are we conditioning our bodies to not mount an all out defense from an infection. After all.. it is only a trial run and not the real thing.”

What a vaccine does is ‘teach’ the immune system the antigens for a specific virus or groups of viruses by presenting the immune system with the proteins/polysaccharides from the outer shell of the virus. The virus is not viable in the vaccine. While doing this ‘primes’ the body to mount a defense, it also may create the problem that when presented with a real virus that the body has not yet seen, the body would attack it as if it were the antigens from a vaccine as opposed to a viable virus and not mount an all out attack because all of the previous times it was a vaccine and not the real thing. A vaccine can not continue the attack or grow the attack because the virus is not viable, it is only the protein/polysaccharide coat of the virus. A real virus would actually attack a cell and produce more copies of itself. The immune system has to move quickly and mount an all-out attack. The delay in or weak response to a new virus gives the virus time to get a better foothold.

Using the Mother cat/kitten analogy, overuse in vaccines might be like the mother cat never stopping the ‘teaching’. The kitten never learns the actual hunt.. but only ‘kills’ the food when it is presented.

When people who have never had the flu shot are given one for the first time, often they get very ill. That is because the body is reading it as a real attack and mounts an all-out offensive. It sees a crap load of foreign proteins/polysaccharides entering the body and ramps up fast. When flu shots are given to someone who regularly takes them, the body doesn’t ramp up as fast because you have taught it that while these proteins/polysaccharides are foreign, they don’t multiply/spread quickly.

The result may be a developed dependency on flu-vaccines because the body no longer ramps up fast enough to the real thing.

[DWCAP]

You could make an argument that vaccines are a problem when given too often, not allowing the body to respond with full force when necessary. I havnt seen much evidence of this one way or the other, but I dont work with them so my knowledge is mostly school based (which all seems to be slipping out the back of my head somehow).

You could also argue that they are teaching proper responses to foreign pathogens. Not every pathogen needs an A bomb response. Infact, as I am sure you know, many of our ‘diseases’ today are actually overzealous immune responses or immune systems not recognizing ‘self’. Alittle moderation on the immune systems part may be a prefered route.

With a population as large and varied as our human population today, I am sure you could come up with evidence for both.

[DWCAP]

You could make an argument that vaccines are a problem when given too often, not allowing the body to respond with full force when necessary. I havnt seen much evidence of this one way or the other, but I dont work with them so my knowledge is mostly school based (which all seems to be slipping out the back of my head somehow).

You could also argue that they are teaching proper responses to foreign pathogens. Not every pathogen needs an A bomb response. Infact, as I am sure you know, many of our ‘diseases’ today are actually overzealous immune responses or immune systems not recognizing ‘self’. Alittle moderation on the immune systems part may be a prefered route.

With a population as large and varied as our human population today, I am sure you could come up with evidence for both.

[DWCAP]

You could make an argument that vaccines are a problem when given too often, not allowing the body to respond with full force when necessary. I havnt seen much evidence of this one way or the other, but I dont work with them so my knowledge is mostly school based (which all seems to be slipping out the back of my head somehow).

You could also argue that they are teaching proper responses to foreign pathogens. Not every pathogen needs an A bomb response. Infact, as I am sure you know, many of our ‘diseases’ today are actually overzealous immune responses or immune systems not recognizing ‘self’. Alittle moderation on the immune systems part may be a prefered route.

With a population as large and varied as our human population today, I am sure you could come up with evidence for both.

[DWCAP]

You could make an argument that vaccines are a problem when given too often, not allowing the body to respond with full force when necessary. I havnt seen much evidence of this one way or the other, but I dont work with them so my knowledge is mostly school based (which all seems to be slipping out the back of my head somehow).

You could also argue that they are teaching proper responses to foreign pathogens. Not every pathogen needs an A bomb response. Infact, as I am sure you know, many of our ‘diseases’ today are actually overzealous immune responses or immune systems not recognizing ‘self’. Alittle moderation on the immune systems part may be a prefered route.

With a population as large and varied as our human population today, I am sure you could come up with evidence for both.

[Author]

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