OT- CONTEST!!! Guess public sector household earnings

[Anonymous]

[quote=bearishgurl]Agreed, but it would stand to reason that for a worker who works for an employer without a “defined benefit plan,” that there isn’t as much incentive to stay on the payroll […][/quote]

I’m pretty sure that an incentive to stay on the payroll..would be the payroll.

Forrest and the trees, eh?

[profhoff]

Did we ever get the answer?

[bearishgurl]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=bearishgurl]Agreed, but it would stand to reason that for a worker who works for an employer without a “defined benefit plan,” that there isn’t as much incentive to stay on the payroll […][/quote]

I’m pretty sure that an incentive to stay on the payroll..would be the payroll.

Forrest and the trees, eh?[/quote]

I was referring to “staying on the payroll” when a particular employee should probably be on FML or other “unpaid” leave. I used “sick” employees for an example (who very possibly could have run out of both sick and annual leave). When an hourly public employee is trying to earn service credits for retirement and needs to vest or hit a particular pension amount and/or age in order to be able to afford to “retire,” he/she often works when they have run out of sick and annual leave. In this case, it’s very possible that healthwise, they would be MUCH better off taking FML or retiring.

For a public employee who is a member of a defined-benefit retirement system and expects to eventually recover from their illness, paid hours are the only thing that matters …. yes, even if technically “sick.”

edit: Lots of employees have 30+ years of service in and are still working. Why, when at 30+ years of service, they can collect 100% of their base pay as a pension?? Because they are not yet old enough to be eligible for Medicare and a health plan in retirement would cost them $500 – $1200 mo. It’s not always about the paycheck.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=profhoff]Did we ever get the answer?[/quote]

IIRC, the “contest” runs “thru Monday” :=]

[CA renter]

[quote=pri_dk][quote=CA renter]By the way, you DO have a choice […] You’re free to move to a city/county/state/country [/quote]

“Love it or leave it”

Seriously?

It works both ways, BTW. There are plenty of countries that don’t have “Wall Streets,” private banks, or even those awful real-estate professionals.

Yes, you too can eliminate all these distasteful things from your life – just by relocating!

If you like, I can provide you a complete list of countries that have the characteristics you seem to prefer.

In the meantime, you can start your research by looking up countries have the phrase “People’s Republic” in their names.[/quote]

This is what YOU recommend people do when they don’t like something. This is YOUR “free market” solution. Right here:

[quote=pri_dk]
And I’m not a fan of gourmet coffee drinks. I don’t like paying $6 for a “triple latte frapawhatever…” I think many people pay way too much for that stuff and the people who sell it are making a ridiculous profit selling flavored water.

So what do I do? Simple: I don’t buy any.

Don’t like real estate commissions? Then find a broker who charges less. Don’t like percentage-based commissions? Then negotiate a fixed fee.

Or don’t use an agent at all, and pay nothing.

Or just don’t buy real estate. Many people live full, productive, happy lives and never pay a Realtor a dime. My grandparents never owned a house, my parents only owned one, and it’s possible I will never transact in real estate again in my own lifetime – and if I do – it’s entirely my own choice what I pay for any services I hire.[/quote]

You have the same rights as any other consumer. You don’t have to “buy” the California way of life.

I don’t have to leave because I’m not the one complaining, and this is my home state.

Why don’t you compile a list of countries that have no/low taxes and no/low public sector wages, and see how that compares to what we have here. I hear Somalia and Mexico are nice this time of year.

It’s funny when people move here from somewhere else and then try to tell us how to live. If you don’t like it, don’t move here.

[Coronita]

You know what? As disgusted as I am that some of these Wall Street guys were all bitching about the idea that their bonuses would be cut during the bailout… The way I see it, there really isn’t any difference between them and some of the folks who presumably are public employees defending your right to collect on these over promised under-delivered pension obligations made by our government.

I have colleagues that worked as employees to a lot of these Wall Street “banks”..And a lot of them had “guaranteed bonuses” as part of their hiring contract, regardless of how the companies performed. It’s really no different than some of you public service employees that had a guarantee return on your pension plan, even though the local/state government had no idea it would not be able to honor the contract. The only difference is the amount, which I think a lot of folks would balk at the amount of the bonus guarantee…

Conclusion:

a) if you’re a wall street employee that received your guaranteed bonus, dont be bitching about public service employee pensions…

b) if you’re a public service employee receiving a guaranteed pension with a guaranteed rate of return, don’t be bitching about wall street employees getting their bonus..

A contract is a contract is a contract. And so it applies both way, if you expect the contract of wall street employees to be broken, than you should expect the unreasonable public service pension contracts to be equally broken and rewritten, and vice versa…
Taxpayers unfairly bailed out wall street banks when they couldn’t meet their obligations promised. And Taxpayers are also going to be bailing out the government when they can’t meet their pension obligations….

Anything else is pure hypocrisy and outright jealousy (only in the amount of the received).
And it’s nothing more than demonstrating “do as I say not as I do” type of mentality imho.

For everyone else that doesn’t belong in either catagories, and essentially bending over twice for a gangbang on both sides…bitch away, as long as you bitch consistently.

[TexasLine]

This thread reminds me of how wars start and are waged. At the heart is covetousness, envy and then greed. Throw in the some scapegoats and then we mobilize the populace with propaganda.

Thank God no one here actually has a red button to push.

BTW the OP didn’t specify which Monday, did he? Maybe this thread will last a year! 🙂

[Anonymous]

[quote=CA renter]I don’t have to leave because I’m not the one complaining, and this is my home state.
[/quote]

Wow, I thought “love it or leave it” was good…

…but now you are using “I was born here, this is MY state!”

But I’m confused, because my kids were born here. Do they have to leave also?

Whatever…keep going…this is good…I want to see just how childish you can be…

[CA renter]

[quote=flu]You know what? As disgusted as I am that some of these Wall Street guys were all bitching about the idea that their bonuses would be cut during the bailout… The way I see it, there really isn’t any difference between them and some of the folks who presumably are public employees defending your right to collect on these over promised under-delivered pension obligations made by our government.

I have colleagues that worked as employees to a lot of these Wall Street “banks”..And a lot of them had “guaranteed bonuses” as part of their hiring contract, regardless of how the companies performed. It’s really no different than some of you public service employees that had a guarantee return on your pension plan, even though the local/state government had no idea it would not be able to honor the contract. The only difference is the amount, which I think a lot of folks would balk at the amount of the bonus guarantee…

Conclusion:

a) if you’re a wall street employee that received your guaranteed bonus, dont be bitching about public service employee pensions…

b) if you’re a public service employee receiving a guaranteed pension with a guaranteed rate of return, don’t be bitching about wall street employees getting their bonus..

A contract is a contract is a contract. And so it applies both way, if you expect the contract of wall street employees to be broken, than you should expect the unreasonable public service pension contracts to be equally broken and rewritten, and vice versa…
Taxpayers unfairly bailed out wall street banks when they couldn’t meet their obligations promised. And Taxpayers are also going to be bailing out the government when they can’t meet their pension obligations….

Anything else is pure hypocrisy and outright jealousy (only in the amount of the received).
And it’s nothing more than demonstrating “do as I say not as I do” type of mentality imho.

For everyone else that doesn’t belong in either catagories, and essentially bending over twice for a gangbang on both sides…bitch away, as long as you bitch consistently.[/quote]

One BIG difference: Wall Street caused the bubbles that resulted in the “over-promised” pensions. The public employers were not originating mortgages nor creating “financial innovations.” They were buying these things and making decisions based on what Wall Street, the ratings agencies, and the Federal Reserve were telling them. Wall Street ran prices up so high, and leveraged things so far, that an implosion was inevitable.

Imagine a scenario where you were robbed, and instead of going to jail, the robbers were able to keep all your property AND have you pay additional amounts for their “pain and suffering” during their trials. Imagine a world in which they were able to turn public opinion against you as well (robbery victims are just whiny, entitled jerks, after all). Think you’d be cool with just letting it all go, or do you think you’d fight back?

Again, I don’t care if we all take a hit. Just make those responsible for our mess take the first — and largest — hit.

[urbanrealtor]

Jesus CAR.
One more retarded….

OH MY GOD!!!!
I JUST WATCHED MARIO BATTALI SPIT CHEWED UP FOOD INTO JOHN STEWARTS MOUTH!!!!!!

DEAR GOD THAT WAS GROSS!!!!!!

[Coronita]

[quote=CA renter][quote=flu]You know what? As disgusted as I am that some of these Wall Street guys were all bitching about the idea that their bonuses would be cut during the bailout… The way I see it, there really isn’t any difference between them and some of the folks who presumably are public employees defending your right to collect on these over promised under-delivered pension obligations made by our government.

I have colleagues that worked as employees to a lot of these Wall Street “banks”..And a lot of them had “guaranteed bonuses” as part of their hiring contract, regardless of how the companies performed. It’s really no different than some of you public service employees that had a guarantee return on your pension plan, even though the local/state government had no idea it would not be able to honor the contract. The only difference is the amount, which I think a lot of folks would balk at the amount of the bonus guarantee…

Conclusion:

a) if you’re a wall street employee that received your guaranteed bonus, dont be bitching about public service employee pensions…

b) if you’re a public service employee receiving a guaranteed pension with a guaranteed rate of return, don’t be bitching about wall street employees getting their bonus..

A contract is a contract is a contract. And so it applies both way, if you expect the contract of wall street employees to be broken, than you should expect the unreasonable public service pension contracts to be equally broken and rewritten, and vice versa…
Taxpayers unfairly bailed out wall street banks when they couldn’t meet their obligations promised. And Taxpayers are also going to be bailing out the government when they can’t meet their pension obligations….

Anything else is pure hypocrisy and outright jealousy (only in the amount of the received).
And it’s nothing more than demonstrating “do as I say not as I do” type of mentality imho.

For everyone else that doesn’t belong in either catagories, and essentially bending over twice for a gangbang on both sides…bitch away, as long as you bitch consistently.[/quote]

One BIG difference: Wall Street caused the bubbles that resulted in the “over-promised” pensions. The public employers were not originating mortgages nor creating “financial innovations.” They were buying these things and making decisions based on what Wall Street, the ratings agencies, and the Federal Reserve were telling them. Wall Street ran prices up so high, and leveraged things so far, that an implosion was inevitable.

Imagine a scenario where you were robbed, and instead of going to jail, the robbers were able to keep all your property AND have you pay additional amounts for their “pain and suffering” during their trials. Imagine a world in which they were able to turn public opinion against you as well (robbery victims are just whiny, entitled jerks, after all). Think you’d be cool with just letting it all go, or do you think you’d fight back?

Again, I don’t care if we all take a hit. Just make those responsible for our mess take the first — and largest — hit.[/quote]

Who/what part of “wall street” caused this problem?

Wall street bankers that did M&A or
Wall street bankers that were underwriters for IPO’s or
Wall street bankers that were involved in CDO’s
or who?

Or all of them? You don’t know, because well, sorry, most folks on Main Street don’t understand, so it’s kinda hard to assess blame. But there’s a lot of anger and frustration, so it ends up being a witch hunt.

Ok, and here’s the rub. If you don’t like Wall Street, don’t use one of their products. Don’t have an IRA/401k/etc, because those are the very instruments created by “Wall Street”

[temeculaguy]

If we want to get technical (or fair) and look at actuarial tables (life expectancy) as it relates to either public pensions or social security, there are more arguments to be made than the ones using averages. Public safety is an overwhelmingly male dominated sport, and men die younger, so it’s cheaper.

But as far as social security goes, black men die on average 5 years earlier than white men, black women live longer than white men and white women used to live the longest, yet hispanics came in at 2.5 years over whites at the 2010 census. Why isn’t social security based on life expectancy, why do black men have to pay into a system that statistically they will not take from, why aren’t women taxed at higher levels since they reap the majority of the benefits.

I’ll tell you why, cause it doesn’t matter during 80% of the time we spend on the planet, it only matters right now and that will change very soon once everyone goes back to worrying about how shiny their rims are.

I know everyone wants facts, but I only have the internet to go on, so forgive me if this data is from a biased source and uses california state data.

http://porac.org/pension_myths&facts.htm

But it supports my argument that less than 1% of public pensions are over 100k and that only about 1% make it 30 years or more. There’s a reason and it’s not just danger and physical breakdown, it’s that over the course of 30 years there are a few boom cycles. In which public service loses it’s luster, in which missing christmas and birthdays and every other holiday becomes not worth it when a cell phone salesman or mortgage broker with two weeks of training out earns the public safety employee. They quit, they leave for greener pastures, they never get the brass ring. Much the same way that pretty much only white women get more than their money’s worth from social security.

But who cares, look around, life is good, even in the worst economic times of our lives. As soon as you stop worrying about what someone else gets or has and enjoy what you have, will the journey begin to take shape for you. It’s going to be over before you know it, no CEO or elected official has ever beat death, it’s a game I guarantee everyone will lose. Enjoy the Aztecs beating UNLV and moving to #16 in the country, share a bottle of wine with some friends, use real butter and tell those around you who put up with you that you love them. I guarantee you it’s more fun than worrying about how much money a nurse and a fireman in Carlsbad makes.

[CA renter]

[quote=flu][quote=CA renter][quote=flu]You know what? As disgusted as I am that some of these Wall Street guys were all bitching about the idea that their bonuses would be cut during the bailout… The way I see it, there really isn’t any difference between them and some of the folks who presumably are public employees defending your right to collect on these over promised under-delivered pension obligations made by our government.

I have colleagues that worked as employees to a lot of these Wall Street “banks”..And a lot of them had “guaranteed bonuses” as part of their hiring contract, regardless of how the companies performed. It’s really no different than some of you public service employees that had a guarantee return on your pension plan, even though the local/state government had no idea it would not be able to honor the contract. The only difference is the amount, which I think a lot of folks would balk at the amount of the bonus guarantee…

Conclusion:

a) if you’re a wall street employee that received your guaranteed bonus, dont be bitching about public service employee pensions…

b) if you’re a public service employee receiving a guaranteed pension with a guaranteed rate of return, don’t be bitching about wall street employees getting their bonus..

A contract is a contract is a contract. And so it applies both way, if you expect the contract of wall street employees to be broken, than you should expect the unreasonable public service pension contracts to be equally broken and rewritten, and vice versa…
Taxpayers unfairly bailed out wall street banks when they couldn’t meet their obligations promised. And Taxpayers are also going to be bailing out the government when they can’t meet their pension obligations….

Anything else is pure hypocrisy and outright jealousy (only in the amount of the received).
And it’s nothing more than demonstrating “do as I say not as I do” type of mentality imho.

For everyone else that doesn’t belong in either catagories, and essentially bending over twice for a gangbang on both sides…bitch away, as long as you bitch consistently.[/quote]

One BIG difference: Wall Street caused the bubbles that resulted in the “over-promised” pensions. The public employers were not originating mortgages nor creating “financial innovations.” They were buying these things and making decisions based on what Wall Street, the ratings agencies, and the Federal Reserve were telling them. Wall Street ran prices up so high, and leveraged things so far, that an implosion was inevitable.

Imagine a scenario where you were robbed, and instead of going to jail, the robbers were able to keep all your property AND have you pay additional amounts for their “pain and suffering” during their trials. Imagine a world in which they were able to turn public opinion against you as well (robbery victims are just whiny, entitled jerks, after all). Think you’d be cool with just letting it all go, or do you think you’d fight back?

Again, I don’t care if we all take a hit. Just make those responsible for our mess take the first — and largest — hit.[/quote]

Who/what part of “wall street” caused this problem?

Wall street bankers that did M&A or
Wall street bankers that were underwriters for IPO’s or
Wall street bankers that were involved in CDO’s
or who?

Or all of them? You don’t know, because well, sorry, most folks on Main Street don’t understand, so it’s kinda hard to assess blame. But there’s a lot of anger and frustration, so it ends up being a witch hunt.

Ok, and here’s the rub. If you don’t like Wall Street, don’t use one of their products. Don’t have an IRA/401k/etc, because those are the very instruments created by “Wall Street”[/quote]

Everyone in charge of originating, bundling, rating, and selling the “toxic” mortgages and related derivatives, etc. should take the first hit. Either they were grossly incompetent and totally undeserving of any profits they made (least likely), or they are criminals (most likely). I’d put Alan Greenspan at the very top of the list. After that, would come every single person who got in the way of investigators/auditors/whistle-blowers who were trying to do their jobs.

You don’t actually think it was all one big “accidental” mistake, do you?

[an]

TG, what you’re saying then is, the public employee pension system is not unsustainable, and we’re blow it out of proportion due to this down turn? I’d love to see an apple to apple comparison between a public vs a private employee, to see which much “underpaid” public employees really area. Too bad I don’t have that data.

[an]

[quote=CA renter]Everyone in charge of originating, bundling, rating, and selling the “toxic” mortgages and related derivatives, etc. should take the first hit. Either they were grossly incompetent and totally undeserving of any profits they made (least likely), or they are criminals (most likely). I’d put Alan Greenspan at the very top of the list. After that, would come every single person who got in the way of investigators/auditors/whistle-blowers who were trying to do their jobs.

You don’t actually think it was all one big “accidental” mistake, do you?[/quote]
Would you also add in those who made money from RE by selling at the peak? How about those who expected the down turn and short the market when it start to crash?

[Author]

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