OT: Blood is on China’s hands

[KIBU]

The quick conclusion of some media on the wikileaks piece about China being “frustrated” with NK and would support a reunification of Korea really made me laugh.

I think that it is too soon to conclude or consider that China is “frustrated” with North Korea and would let a reunification of Korea occurs. We can not take what was leaked literally as the reality simply because of the various contexts or special reasons that these diplomats say things. I would stick to the fundamentals of geopolitics in this region and I believe:

-A reunification of Korea is clearly against China’s interest. Reunification means the US’s surrounding China policy is even more tighter, the sensitive yellow sea area of North Korea will be in South and US’s hand, even closer to Peking.

-North Korea is a card that China will play when they need to negotiate with US since only China could “influence” North Korea.

-North Korea will further be dependent on China as the primary political and economic supporter for its leader’s survival while China, playing the card, allow NK to act as a destabilizer dog in the region as negotiating bargaining chips.

-As the US is reasserting its interest in East/Southeast Asia after years of neglect (one big reason is to preserve the rights for its traditional sea lanes against China’s recent aggressive claims), with China being politically beaten down a bit now, I suspect China has decided to play its card to get the US to pay attention and perhaps appreciate the potential damages a wild NorthKorea can be (to world economy and regional stability). And hence will negotiations on other issues relating to China-US interests.

[briansd1]

I don’t see why we should blame the Chinese.

If we want to fix the Korean situation to our liking, then we need to do what we need to do. If we don’t have the means, then tough luck for us.

The Chinese will do what is good for them, unless we make it worthwhile for them to help us. Simple as that.

Foreign policy is based on tit for tat relationships of equals (or a semblance of it). We need to treat others like we want to be treated. Under Bush, America wanted to go it alone, so we should shouldn’t be surprised if other countries are now telling us “you want to fix it, then you do it; nobody is stopping you, but don’t expect us to help. And if you break it, you own it.”

In diplomacy, it takes years, if not decades, to make admends for perceived wrongs and breach of protocol.

[briansd1]

I don’t see why we should blame the Chinese.

If we want to fix the Korean situation to our liking, then we need to do what we need to do. If we don’t have the means, then tough luck for us.

The Chinese will do what is good for them, unless we make it worthwhile for them to help us. Simple as that.

Foreign policy is based on tit for tat relationships of equals (or a semblance of it). We need to treat others like we want to be treated. Under Bush, America wanted to go it alone, so we should shouldn’t be surprised if other countries are now telling us “you want to fix it, then you do it; nobody is stopping you, but don’t expect us to help. And if you break it, you own it.”

In diplomacy, it takes years, if not decades, to make admends for perceived wrongs and breach of protocol.

[briansd1]

I don’t see why we should blame the Chinese.

If we want to fix the Korean situation to our liking, then we need to do what we need to do. If we don’t have the means, then tough luck for us.

The Chinese will do what is good for them, unless we make it worthwhile for them to help us. Simple as that.

Foreign policy is based on tit for tat relationships of equals (or a semblance of it). We need to treat others like we want to be treated. Under Bush, America wanted to go it alone, so we should shouldn’t be surprised if other countries are now telling us “you want to fix it, then you do it; nobody is stopping you, but don’t expect us to help. And if you break it, you own it.”

In diplomacy, it takes years, if not decades, to make admends for perceived wrongs and breach of protocol.

[briansd1]

I don’t see why we should blame the Chinese.

If we want to fix the Korean situation to our liking, then we need to do what we need to do. If we don’t have the means, then tough luck for us.

The Chinese will do what is good for them, unless we make it worthwhile for them to help us. Simple as that.

Foreign policy is based on tit for tat relationships of equals (or a semblance of it). We need to treat others like we want to be treated. Under Bush, America wanted to go it alone, so we should shouldn’t be surprised if other countries are now telling us “you want to fix it, then you do it; nobody is stopping you, but don’t expect us to help. And if you break it, you own it.”

In diplomacy, it takes years, if not decades, to make admends for perceived wrongs and breach of protocol.

[briansd1]

I don’t see why we should blame the Chinese.

If we want to fix the Korean situation to our liking, then we need to do what we need to do. If we don’t have the means, then tough luck for us.

The Chinese will do what is good for them, unless we make it worthwhile for them to help us. Simple as that.

Foreign policy is based on tit for tat relationships of equals (or a semblance of it). We need to treat others like we want to be treated. Under Bush, America wanted to go it alone, so we should shouldn’t be surprised if other countries are now telling us “you want to fix it, then you do it; nobody is stopping you, but don’t expect us to help. And if you break it, you own it.”

In diplomacy, it takes years, if not decades, to make admends for perceived wrongs and breach of protocol.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

If the Hermit Kingdom implodes, China is going to be the recipient of tens of thousands of starving NKorean refugees crossing their border, and they really don’t want to see that happen.

China has significant internal security issues, not the least of which are approx. 200k disaffected former People’s Liberation Army (Chinese Army) officers, which could potentially form the heart of a serious insurgency movement. Along with tensions surrounding groups like the Uighurs and the mass displacement of peasants throughout the country, China has a very good reason to maintain the status quo ante in NKorea.

I’m sure it doesn’t hurt the Chinese cause to tie down valuable US military resources (there are some 30k US troops in SKorea), and see what sort of response the US offers to Kim Jong-il’s goading, but there are other reasons than the obvious at play here.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

If the Hermit Kingdom implodes, China is going to be the recipient of tens of thousands of starving NKorean refugees crossing their border, and they really don’t want to see that happen.

China has significant internal security issues, not the least of which are approx. 200k disaffected former People’s Liberation Army (Chinese Army) officers, which could potentially form the heart of a serious insurgency movement. Along with tensions surrounding groups like the Uighurs and the mass displacement of peasants throughout the country, China has a very good reason to maintain the status quo ante in NKorea.

I’m sure it doesn’t hurt the Chinese cause to tie down valuable US military resources (there are some 30k US troops in SKorea), and see what sort of response the US offers to Kim Jong-il’s goading, but there are other reasons than the obvious at play here.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

If the Hermit Kingdom implodes, China is going to be the recipient of tens of thousands of starving NKorean refugees crossing their border, and they really don’t want to see that happen.

China has significant internal security issues, not the least of which are approx. 200k disaffected former People’s Liberation Army (Chinese Army) officers, which could potentially form the heart of a serious insurgency movement. Along with tensions surrounding groups like the Uighurs and the mass displacement of peasants throughout the country, China has a very good reason to maintain the status quo ante in NKorea.

I’m sure it doesn’t hurt the Chinese cause to tie down valuable US military resources (there are some 30k US troops in SKorea), and see what sort of response the US offers to Kim Jong-il’s goading, but there are other reasons than the obvious at play here.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

If the Hermit Kingdom implodes, China is going to be the recipient of tens of thousands of starving NKorean refugees crossing their border, and they really don’t want to see that happen.

China has significant internal security issues, not the least of which are approx. 200k disaffected former People’s Liberation Army (Chinese Army) officers, which could potentially form the heart of a serious insurgency movement. Along with tensions surrounding groups like the Uighurs and the mass displacement of peasants throughout the country, China has a very good reason to maintain the status quo ante in NKorea.

I’m sure it doesn’t hurt the Chinese cause to tie down valuable US military resources (there are some 30k US troops in SKorea), and see what sort of response the US offers to Kim Jong-il’s goading, but there are other reasons than the obvious at play here.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

If the Hermit Kingdom implodes, China is going to be the recipient of tens of thousands of starving NKorean refugees crossing their border, and they really don’t want to see that happen.

China has significant internal security issues, not the least of which are approx. 200k disaffected former People’s Liberation Army (Chinese Army) officers, which could potentially form the heart of a serious insurgency movement. Along with tensions surrounding groups like the Uighurs and the mass displacement of peasants throughout the country, China has a very good reason to maintain the status quo ante in NKorea.

I’m sure it doesn’t hurt the Chinese cause to tie down valuable US military resources (there are some 30k US troops in SKorea), and see what sort of response the US offers to Kim Jong-il’s goading, but there are other reasons than the obvious at play here.

[AK]

[quote=briansd1]I don’t see why we should blame the Chinese.

If we want to fix the Korean situation to our liking, then we need to do what we need to do. If we don’t have the means, then tough luck for us.

The Chinese will do what is good for them, unless we make it worthwhile for them to help us. Simple as that.

Foreign policy is based on tit for tat relationships of equals (or a semblance of it). We need to treat others like we want to be treated. Under Bush, America wanted to go it alone, so we should shouldn’t be surprised if other countries are now telling us “you want to fix it, then you do it; nobody is stopping you, but don’t expect us to help. And if you break it, you own it.”

In diplomacy, it takes years, if not decades, to make admends for perceived wrongs and breach of protocol.[/quote]

Geez briansd, this isn’t about the United States, for crying out loud!

This is about the people of the Republic of Korea who have been subjected to a violent premeditated attack. This is about the long-suffering people of North Korea. And it’s about the constant selfish meddling of the Chinese government that keeps the South in fear and the North in poverty and chaos.

It’s about my grandparents and their young children, who fled North Korea through those same disputed waters in 1946, and were saved by the hospitality of those same islanders when their boat broke down. None of them ever saw their home in the north again … except for my uncle, who had to flee through those waters again when the few survivors of his unit retreated from the north in late 1950.

So treat others as they would want to be treated, and think about those who truly bear the burden of the Korean situation before glibly brushing it off as another George W. Bush gaffe.

[AK]

[quote=briansd1]I don’t see why we should blame the Chinese.

If we want to fix the Korean situation to our liking, then we need to do what we need to do. If we don’t have the means, then tough luck for us.

The Chinese will do what is good for them, unless we make it worthwhile for them to help us. Simple as that.

Foreign policy is based on tit for tat relationships of equals (or a semblance of it). We need to treat others like we want to be treated. Under Bush, America wanted to go it alone, so we should shouldn’t be surprised if other countries are now telling us “you want to fix it, then you do it; nobody is stopping you, but don’t expect us to help. And if you break it, you own it.”

In diplomacy, it takes years, if not decades, to make admends for perceived wrongs and breach of protocol.[/quote]

Geez briansd, this isn’t about the United States, for crying out loud!

This is about the people of the Republic of Korea who have been subjected to a violent premeditated attack. This is about the long-suffering people of North Korea. And it’s about the constant selfish meddling of the Chinese government that keeps the South in fear and the North in poverty and chaos.

It’s about my grandparents and their young children, who fled North Korea through those same disputed waters in 1946, and were saved by the hospitality of those same islanders when their boat broke down. None of them ever saw their home in the north again … except for my uncle, who had to flee through those waters again when the few survivors of his unit retreated from the north in late 1950.

So treat others as they would want to be treated, and think about those who truly bear the burden of the Korean situation before glibly brushing it off as another George W. Bush gaffe.

[AK]

[quote=briansd1]I don’t see why we should blame the Chinese.

If we want to fix the Korean situation to our liking, then we need to do what we need to do. If we don’t have the means, then tough luck for us.

The Chinese will do what is good for them, unless we make it worthwhile for them to help us. Simple as that.

Foreign policy is based on tit for tat relationships of equals (or a semblance of it). We need to treat others like we want to be treated. Under Bush, America wanted to go it alone, so we should shouldn’t be surprised if other countries are now telling us “you want to fix it, then you do it; nobody is stopping you, but don’t expect us to help. And if you break it, you own it.”

In diplomacy, it takes years, if not decades, to make admends for perceived wrongs and breach of protocol.[/quote]

Geez briansd, this isn’t about the United States, for crying out loud!

This is about the people of the Republic of Korea who have been subjected to a violent premeditated attack. This is about the long-suffering people of North Korea. And it’s about the constant selfish meddling of the Chinese government that keeps the South in fear and the North in poverty and chaos.

It’s about my grandparents and their young children, who fled North Korea through those same disputed waters in 1946, and were saved by the hospitality of those same islanders when their boat broke down. None of them ever saw their home in the north again … except for my uncle, who had to flee through those waters again when the few survivors of his unit retreated from the north in late 1950.

So treat others as they would want to be treated, and think about those who truly bear the burden of the Korean situation before glibly brushing it off as another George W. Bush gaffe.

[AK]

[quote=briansd1]I don’t see why we should blame the Chinese.

If we want to fix the Korean situation to our liking, then we need to do what we need to do. If we don’t have the means, then tough luck for us.

The Chinese will do what is good for them, unless we make it worthwhile for them to help us. Simple as that.

Foreign policy is based on tit for tat relationships of equals (or a semblance of it). We need to treat others like we want to be treated. Under Bush, America wanted to go it alone, so we should shouldn’t be surprised if other countries are now telling us “you want to fix it, then you do it; nobody is stopping you, but don’t expect us to help. And if you break it, you own it.”

In diplomacy, it takes years, if not decades, to make admends for perceived wrongs and breach of protocol.[/quote]

Geez briansd, this isn’t about the United States, for crying out loud!

This is about the people of the Republic of Korea who have been subjected to a violent premeditated attack. This is about the long-suffering people of North Korea. And it’s about the constant selfish meddling of the Chinese government that keeps the South in fear and the North in poverty and chaos.

It’s about my grandparents and their young children, who fled North Korea through those same disputed waters in 1946, and were saved by the hospitality of those same islanders when their boat broke down. None of them ever saw their home in the north again … except for my uncle, who had to flee through those waters again when the few survivors of his unit retreated from the north in late 1950.

So treat others as they would want to be treated, and think about those who truly bear the burden of the Korean situation before glibly brushing it off as another George W. Bush gaffe.

[Author]

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