OT: Obama is Conservative

[gandalf]

Allan’s questions later. Meantime, I have a quick question for surveyor and jfiq:

In response to a question about foreign policy, you made a big stink (several posts) about a comment Obama made in a speech re: dropping a ‘bomb’ on Pearl Harbor. The implication you were making is we have a sitting US Senator and candidate for US President who doesn’t know what happened at Pearl Harbor. It’s absurd on its face.

In the YouTube clip of Obama’s speech, there was actually a confused pause as he read through this portion. For what it’s worth, the incident seemed like a public speaking error to me, even a typo in the speech (leaving the ‘s’ off of ‘bomb’).

Today, something equally absurd came up. John McCain suggested Iraq and Pakistan share a border. Here is a clip of his statements:

Now, I don’t for one minute believe John McCain doesn’t know the geography of the Middle East. We’re at war over there and have large numbers of troops deployed in both countries. So it seemed like a public speaking error to me. I’m not a partisan. I’m making the same call, both candidates.

Would you like to retract the characterizations of Mr. Obama you made earlier on this post? They were ridiculous. Here’s your best chance to save face and admit that your comments were ridiculous.

Or would you like to criticize Mr. McCain, a candidate for US President, for making such an absurd statement? Certainly, somebody who doesn’t know where Iraq and Afghanistan are on a map has no business being Commander-in-Chief of US forces deployed in those countries. You would agree?

If you apply the same standard to both candidates, you’ll need to pick one or the other. I think both are simple mistakes that have been exaggerated and amplified for partisan purposes, and to the detriment of our political discourse.

Where do you stand?

[surveyor]

gandalf:

I’ve already said something about it to that effect. I said that if it were a one-time thing, I would have disregarded it. Also, I’ve always said that McCain and Obama were clueless. I just regard Obama as more clueless.

I’m certainly willing to excoriate and criticize McCain on his shortcomings. However, he has a better grasp on the islamofacism angle than Obama. Unfortunately, that is a terribly important issue to me.

However, most of the threads here started out as “wow, Obama is really worthy of being president” and “Obama is really knowledgeable.” I’ve pointed out arguments that poke holes in that theory. If the subject was “Vote for McCain, he knows what he’s doing” I would be posting up the policy objections I have with McCain.

And honestly, I’m no supporter of McCain either (which is what most everyone assumes I am). Does he have my vote? Probably, because I see Obama and his policies as a threat to the U.S. Still, voting in a state like California for McCain, I have no illusions that my vote will matter… Usually I vote Libertarian (now that’s a wasted vote!).

Still, I would think that any criticism of Obama for his lack of knowledge of history is warranted. I think he’s displayed it often enough. I’ve said this before as well – there is no doubt he’s intelligent, bright, and articulate. However, he comes across to me as a person who’s been in school way too long and hasn’t had the hard experience to give him the judgment he needs to be president. He’s just too green. Until that changes, I don’t believe he will be an effective president.

[surveyor]

gandalf:

I’ve already said something about it to that effect. I said that if it were a one-time thing, I would have disregarded it. Also, I’ve always said that McCain and Obama were clueless. I just regard Obama as more clueless.

I’m certainly willing to excoriate and criticize McCain on his shortcomings. However, he has a better grasp on the islamofacism angle than Obama. Unfortunately, that is a terribly important issue to me.

However, most of the threads here started out as “wow, Obama is really worthy of being president” and “Obama is really knowledgeable.” I’ve pointed out arguments that poke holes in that theory. If the subject was “Vote for McCain, he knows what he’s doing” I would be posting up the policy objections I have with McCain.

And honestly, I’m no supporter of McCain either (which is what most everyone assumes I am). Does he have my vote? Probably, because I see Obama and his policies as a threat to the U.S. Still, voting in a state like California for McCain, I have no illusions that my vote will matter… Usually I vote Libertarian (now that’s a wasted vote!).

Still, I would think that any criticism of Obama for his lack of knowledge of history is warranted. I think he’s displayed it often enough. I’ve said this before as well – there is no doubt he’s intelligent, bright, and articulate. However, he comes across to me as a person who’s been in school way too long and hasn’t had the hard experience to give him the judgment he needs to be president. He’s just too green. Until that changes, I don’t believe he will be an effective president.

[surveyor]

gandalf:

I’ve already said something about it to that effect. I said that if it were a one-time thing, I would have disregarded it. Also, I’ve always said that McCain and Obama were clueless. I just regard Obama as more clueless.

I’m certainly willing to excoriate and criticize McCain on his shortcomings. However, he has a better grasp on the islamofacism angle than Obama. Unfortunately, that is a terribly important issue to me.

However, most of the threads here started out as “wow, Obama is really worthy of being president” and “Obama is really knowledgeable.” I’ve pointed out arguments that poke holes in that theory. If the subject was “Vote for McCain, he knows what he’s doing” I would be posting up the policy objections I have with McCain.

And honestly, I’m no supporter of McCain either (which is what most everyone assumes I am). Does he have my vote? Probably, because I see Obama and his policies as a threat to the U.S. Still, voting in a state like California for McCain, I have no illusions that my vote will matter… Usually I vote Libertarian (now that’s a wasted vote!).

Still, I would think that any criticism of Obama for his lack of knowledge of history is warranted. I think he’s displayed it often enough. I’ve said this before as well – there is no doubt he’s intelligent, bright, and articulate. However, he comes across to me as a person who’s been in school way too long and hasn’t had the hard experience to give him the judgment he needs to be president. He’s just too green. Until that changes, I don’t believe he will be an effective president.

[surveyor]

gandalf:

I’ve already said something about it to that effect. I said that if it were a one-time thing, I would have disregarded it. Also, I’ve always said that McCain and Obama were clueless. I just regard Obama as more clueless.

I’m certainly willing to excoriate and criticize McCain on his shortcomings. However, he has a better grasp on the islamofacism angle than Obama. Unfortunately, that is a terribly important issue to me.

However, most of the threads here started out as “wow, Obama is really worthy of being president” and “Obama is really knowledgeable.” I’ve pointed out arguments that poke holes in that theory. If the subject was “Vote for McCain, he knows what he’s doing” I would be posting up the policy objections I have with McCain.

And honestly, I’m no supporter of McCain either (which is what most everyone assumes I am). Does he have my vote? Probably, because I see Obama and his policies as a threat to the U.S. Still, voting in a state like California for McCain, I have no illusions that my vote will matter… Usually I vote Libertarian (now that’s a wasted vote!).

Still, I would think that any criticism of Obama for his lack of knowledge of history is warranted. I think he’s displayed it often enough. I’ve said this before as well – there is no doubt he’s intelligent, bright, and articulate. However, he comes across to me as a person who’s been in school way too long and hasn’t had the hard experience to give him the judgment he needs to be president. He’s just too green. Until that changes, I don’t believe he will be an effective president.

[surveyor]

gandalf:

I’ve already said something about it to that effect. I said that if it were a one-time thing, I would have disregarded it. Also, I’ve always said that McCain and Obama were clueless. I just regard Obama as more clueless.

I’m certainly willing to excoriate and criticize McCain on his shortcomings. However, he has a better grasp on the islamofacism angle than Obama. Unfortunately, that is a terribly important issue to me.

However, most of the threads here started out as “wow, Obama is really worthy of being president” and “Obama is really knowledgeable.” I’ve pointed out arguments that poke holes in that theory. If the subject was “Vote for McCain, he knows what he’s doing” I would be posting up the policy objections I have with McCain.

And honestly, I’m no supporter of McCain either (which is what most everyone assumes I am). Does he have my vote? Probably, because I see Obama and his policies as a threat to the U.S. Still, voting in a state like California for McCain, I have no illusions that my vote will matter… Usually I vote Libertarian (now that’s a wasted vote!).

Still, I would think that any criticism of Obama for his lack of knowledge of history is warranted. I think he’s displayed it often enough. I’ve said this before as well – there is no doubt he’s intelligent, bright, and articulate. However, he comes across to me as a person who’s been in school way too long and hasn’t had the hard experience to give him the judgment he needs to be president. He’s just too green. Until that changes, I don’t believe he will be an effective president.

[surveyor]

oh one more thing, gandalf:

Just because McCain and Obama made similar mistakes does not disprove the notion that Obama knows little of history and has little experience, which was my assertion.

So I see little to “retract.”

[surveyor]

oh one more thing, gandalf:

Just because McCain and Obama made similar mistakes does not disprove the notion that Obama knows little of history and has little experience, which was my assertion.

So I see little to “retract.”

[surveyor]

oh one more thing, gandalf:

Just because McCain and Obama made similar mistakes does not disprove the notion that Obama knows little of history and has little experience, which was my assertion.

So I see little to “retract.”

[surveyor]

oh one more thing, gandalf:

Just because McCain and Obama made similar mistakes does not disprove the notion that Obama knows little of history and has little experience, which was my assertion.

So I see little to “retract.”

[surveyor]

oh one more thing, gandalf:

Just because McCain and Obama made similar mistakes does not disprove the notion that Obama knows little of history and has little experience, which was my assertion.

So I see little to “retract.”

[gandalf]

Actually, here’s what you said:

[quote=surveyor]
His knowledge and understanding of history is also severely lacking. He recently commented about the “bomb that hit Pearl Harbor”. It wasn’t just one bomb, there were several bombs launched by the Japanese against Pearl Harbor. It’s interesting to note that not only does he have a good understanding and knowledge of history of his own country, he also has the same lack of depth when it comes to the state he lived in and spent most of his childhood in.
[/quote]

The suggestion that Obama doesn’t know what happened at Pearl Harbor is as ludicrous as suggesting McCain doesn’t know where Iraq and Afghanistan are on a map. Both are ridiculous. In Obama’s case, it feeds into a larger and somewhat sinister right-wing whisper campaign that Obama is somehow un-American. It’s McCarthy-esque.

The polarized nature of our political discourse, the ad-hominem attacks and tainting through association, false mischaracterizations and outright lies, during a time of war and national emergency, has become morally disgusting. I used to be fairly laid back about it, libertarian, to each his own. Not anymore. Enough is enough.

The original post was about a Newsweek article that discussed how the foreign policy positions of Obama are actually conservative in nature. Your responses have consisted of ad-hominem attacks on Obama. You haven’t contributed anything about actual foreign policy.

Perhaps you’d like to say something about our overall direction in Iraq? Dealing with Iran? What our position should be vis-a-vis Syria or Saudi Arabia? Engagement on the Israel/Palestinian issue? And with each of these, what are the conservative positions on these issues?

The interesting thing about this to me is how Obama seems to be more aligned with foreign policy conservatives than Bush/McCain. That’s an interesting discussion, suitable for the off-topic forum on Piggington’s.

Allan, I’ll try to get to your excellent questions here this evening. Got sidetracked, obviously.

Thanks,
G

[gandalf]

Actually, here’s what you said:

[quote=surveyor]
His knowledge and understanding of history is also severely lacking. He recently commented about the “bomb that hit Pearl Harbor”. It wasn’t just one bomb, there were several bombs launched by the Japanese against Pearl Harbor. It’s interesting to note that not only does he have a good understanding and knowledge of history of his own country, he also has the same lack of depth when it comes to the state he lived in and spent most of his childhood in.
[/quote]

The suggestion that Obama doesn’t know what happened at Pearl Harbor is as ludicrous as suggesting McCain doesn’t know where Iraq and Afghanistan are on a map. Both are ridiculous. In Obama’s case, it feeds into a larger and somewhat sinister right-wing whisper campaign that Obama is somehow un-American. It’s McCarthy-esque.

The polarized nature of our political discourse, the ad-hominem attacks and tainting through association, false mischaracterizations and outright lies, during a time of war and national emergency, has become morally disgusting. I used to be fairly laid back about it, libertarian, to each his own. Not anymore. Enough is enough.

The original post was about a Newsweek article that discussed how the foreign policy positions of Obama are actually conservative in nature. Your responses have consisted of ad-hominem attacks on Obama. You haven’t contributed anything about actual foreign policy.

Perhaps you’d like to say something about our overall direction in Iraq? Dealing with Iran? What our position should be vis-a-vis Syria or Saudi Arabia? Engagement on the Israel/Palestinian issue? And with each of these, what are the conservative positions on these issues?

The interesting thing about this to me is how Obama seems to be more aligned with foreign policy conservatives than Bush/McCain. That’s an interesting discussion, suitable for the off-topic forum on Piggington’s.

Allan, I’ll try to get to your excellent questions here this evening. Got sidetracked, obviously.

Thanks,
G

[gandalf]

Actually, here’s what you said:

[quote=surveyor]
His knowledge and understanding of history is also severely lacking. He recently commented about the “bomb that hit Pearl Harbor”. It wasn’t just one bomb, there were several bombs launched by the Japanese against Pearl Harbor. It’s interesting to note that not only does he have a good understanding and knowledge of history of his own country, he also has the same lack of depth when it comes to the state he lived in and spent most of his childhood in.
[/quote]

The suggestion that Obama doesn’t know what happened at Pearl Harbor is as ludicrous as suggesting McCain doesn’t know where Iraq and Afghanistan are on a map. Both are ridiculous. In Obama’s case, it feeds into a larger and somewhat sinister right-wing whisper campaign that Obama is somehow un-American. It’s McCarthy-esque.

The polarized nature of our political discourse, the ad-hominem attacks and tainting through association, false mischaracterizations and outright lies, during a time of war and national emergency, has become morally disgusting. I used to be fairly laid back about it, libertarian, to each his own. Not anymore. Enough is enough.

The original post was about a Newsweek article that discussed how the foreign policy positions of Obama are actually conservative in nature. Your responses have consisted of ad-hominem attacks on Obama. You haven’t contributed anything about actual foreign policy.

Perhaps you’d like to say something about our overall direction in Iraq? Dealing with Iran? What our position should be vis-a-vis Syria or Saudi Arabia? Engagement on the Israel/Palestinian issue? And with each of these, what are the conservative positions on these issues?

The interesting thing about this to me is how Obama seems to be more aligned with foreign policy conservatives than Bush/McCain. That’s an interesting discussion, suitable for the off-topic forum on Piggington’s.

Allan, I’ll try to get to your excellent questions here this evening. Got sidetracked, obviously.

Thanks,
G

[gandalf]

Actually, here’s what you said:

[quote=surveyor]
His knowledge and understanding of history is also severely lacking. He recently commented about the “bomb that hit Pearl Harbor”. It wasn’t just one bomb, there were several bombs launched by the Japanese against Pearl Harbor. It’s interesting to note that not only does he have a good understanding and knowledge of history of his own country, he also has the same lack of depth when it comes to the state he lived in and spent most of his childhood in.
[/quote]

The suggestion that Obama doesn’t know what happened at Pearl Harbor is as ludicrous as suggesting McCain doesn’t know where Iraq and Afghanistan are on a map. Both are ridiculous. In Obama’s case, it feeds into a larger and somewhat sinister right-wing whisper campaign that Obama is somehow un-American. It’s McCarthy-esque.

The polarized nature of our political discourse, the ad-hominem attacks and tainting through association, false mischaracterizations and outright lies, during a time of war and national emergency, has become morally disgusting. I used to be fairly laid back about it, libertarian, to each his own. Not anymore. Enough is enough.

The original post was about a Newsweek article that discussed how the foreign policy positions of Obama are actually conservative in nature. Your responses have consisted of ad-hominem attacks on Obama. You haven’t contributed anything about actual foreign policy.

Perhaps you’d like to say something about our overall direction in Iraq? Dealing with Iran? What our position should be vis-a-vis Syria or Saudi Arabia? Engagement on the Israel/Palestinian issue? And with each of these, what are the conservative positions on these issues?

The interesting thing about this to me is how Obama seems to be more aligned with foreign policy conservatives than Bush/McCain. That’s an interesting discussion, suitable for the off-topic forum on Piggington’s.

Allan, I’ll try to get to your excellent questions here this evening. Got sidetracked, obviously.

Thanks,
G

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