NRA WTF?

[phaster]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Where is the money going to come from for the wall and guards?[/quote]

according to POTUS mexico is going to pay for it!

http://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/11/trump-claims-mexico-will-pay-for-his-border-wall-through-nafta.html

[njtosd]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Did you guys notice that when you attend a seminars or conference someone always introduces himself as the safety officer? It’s kinda creepy but it’s the country we live in.

Teachers when guns and school surrounded by walls. There goes the open campus concept. Where is the money going to come from for the wall and guards?[/quote]

Plus, the armed security officers and sheriffs that were supposed to protect the children in Parkland hid behind their cars and never entered the building . . . Even with guns they are cowards – so I guess they need really aggressive people with guns. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sheriff-armed-school-resource-officer-never-went-in-to-building-in-florida-mass-shooting/

[ucodegen]

[quote=njtosd][quote=FlyerInHi]Did you guys notice that when you attend a seminars or conference someone always introduces himself as the safety officer? It’s kinda creepy but it’s the country we live in.

Teachers when guns and school surrounded by walls. There goes the open campus concept. Where is the money going to come from for the wall and guards?[/quote]

Plus, the armed security officers and sheriffs that were supposed to protect the children in Parkland hid behind their cars and never entered the building . . . Even with guns they are cowards – so I guess they need really aggressive people with guns. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sheriff-armed-school-resource-officer-never-went-in-to-building-in-florida-mass-shooting/%5B/quote%5D
Lets see – shooting lasted about 6 minutes, armed security stood outside for about 4 minutes, knowing that there was a shooting inside – what, to prevent anyone from going inside and stopping it? Oh – thats right, they are from Broward County. Sorry, but I feel particularly snarky on this one.

PS: Now Broward County deputies will now carry rifles on school grounds — are you sure a bigger gun will make them feel man enough to take on one shooter with 4 officers? Maybe a rifle is not big enough.

[outtamojo]

Snarky were the ones who claimed the safety officer had bone spurs. Up the firepower and aggressiveness of the safety officer spraying bullets everywhere and who knows if the body count ends up higher or lower. Sorry dog lovers but I feel a canine attack dog would be more effective in saving human lives at school site shootings than than 99 percent of armed humans and all their bluster.

[Anonymous]

[quote=ucodegen]PS: Now Broward County deputies will now carry rifles on school grounds — are you sure a bigger gun will make them feel man enough to take on one shooter with 4 officers? Maybe a rifle is not big enough.[/quote]

Yup, the NRA got exactly what it wanted.

More gun sales.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=ucodegen]
Why do we give such a pass to China for the amount of wide hacking sweeps that China does? Russia is bad, but China is out of control. [/quote]

Exactly Fox News talking points:

Problem is that Trump is not taking about China nor is he doing anything about China so China does get a free pass, maybe because they rewarded Trump and ivanka handsomely.

[Anonymous]

She has a nasty, bitchy demeanor in the video but she does have a nice smile when she uses it.

https://www.snopes.com/rich-sanchez-tweet-rick-sanchez-fired-jew/

Question for NRA supporters: Do “they” include the Jews?

[Ribbles]

[quote=ucodegen]Lets see – shooting lasted about 6 minutes, armed security stood outside for about 4 minutes, knowing that there was a shooting inside – what, to prevent anyone from going inside and stopping it? Oh – thats right, they are from Broward County. Sorry, but I feel particularly snarky on this one.

PS: Now Broward County deputies will now carry rifles on school grounds — are you sure a bigger gun will make them feel man enough to take on one shooter with 4 officers? Maybe a rifle is not big enough.[/quote]

Body armor would help more than bigger guns. AR-15s make a unique sound, so they knew what they were up against, which is terrifying. A 9mm round hitting a non-vital area won’t kill you. An AR-15 round can have an exit wound several inches across – so the kid doesn’t need to hit a vital area to damage it. Get shot in the arm and you might lose the arm. They are also bizarrely light and have almost no recoil, which makes them easy to wield by my 7-year-old daughter, let alone an angry teenager.

Not making excuses for them. Multiple officers should have had the collective balls to go in there.

[FlyerInHi]

Death is the undeniable fuel of life.

I need to check out some NRA programming in my spare time

[ucodegen]

[quote=Ribbles]
Body armor would help more than bigger guns. AR-15s make a unique sound, so they knew what they were up against, which is terrifying.[/quote]
The ARs that they were using were firing .223 cal (chambered for 5.56 NATO – imperial vs metric). They were not chambered to the normal 7.62 that Kalashnikovs fire. While it has a greater impact than some 9mms, but not all. Because of the small bullet – it does not always impart all of the energy on its target as quickly. The sound you hear from the AR is the cycling of the bolt, which produces a ringing sound.
[quote=Ribbles]A 9mm round hitting a non-vital area won’t kill you. An AR-15 round can have an exit wound several inches across – so the kid doesn’t need to hit a vital area to damage it.[/quote] Wrong – the exit wound from an AR is not that big (several inches). The AR fires a harder round than a handgun. It does not expand as much – often not a hollow point. I can, however, tumble a bit. But remember – the round is 5.56 mm vs 9mm and considerably lighter. The high velocity nature is for accuracy at distance – not solely kill power. The requirement for the weapon is accuracy to 600yards. That is much farther than any reasonable attempt with a handgun.
[quote=Ribbles]They are also bizarrely light and have almost no recoil, which makes them easy to wield by my 7-year-old daughter, let alone an angry teenager.

Not making excuses for them. Multiple officers should have had the collective balls to go in there.[/quote]
Recoil maps to energy out of the barrel and downrange energy fairly accurately. The AR chambered to 7.62 has more of a kick. How about a .357 revolver or Desert Eagle? Ever fire a Barrett (Non California Legal version)?

Nice video example of penetration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0qgQoej5zE

There is a reason the IDF uses 9mm small arms in close quarters ie. Uzi, MP5. The barrel length tends to be a liability. In close quarter defense, I would rather have something other than a AR, more like a 9mm or more pref SIG P229 chambered to .357. (Full auto not allowed for civilians)

https://www.range365.com/amazing-357-sig

NOTE: The high number of deaths in this incident was due to the time the person had with a semi-auto weapon. Some people were shot multiple times at a fairly close range. Also note 14 were wounded (17 killed).

Final note: Most police departments have a requirement to use the vest – though not all officers do. With 6 min, 4 min of waiting, they had time to put one on. I am also disgusted (putting it mildly) at how many ‘officials’ dropped the ball. Amazing how many students ‘were not surprised’ at who it was. Also note that the suspect must of just walked out by one of the officers ‘waiting’ at the entrance before police/SWAT got on the scene (he was not found in the school).

PS: In my other work, I was a Defense Contractor doing military training.

NOTE: Quote about one of the victims:

On Monday, Ms. Wilford, 17, walked into a conference center at Broward Health North hospital flanked by her parents, a cast on her arm the only outward sign of the injuries that could have killed her. Doctors said the bullet wounds to her torso and abdomen had essentially healed, and that she could be physically ready to return to school as early as next week.

– she was shot 3 times. Another was shot 5 times and survived (both legs and through his back – no aputation). I also heard it was over 30 minutes from start till rescue was allowed in.

[Anonymous]

[quote=ucodegen]…[/quote]

Are you military, law enforcement … or just another one of the internet armchair gunslinger heros that inevitably shows up in any thread about guns?

Meanwhile the NRA keeps delivering: The video Brian linked above has plenty more – at the 11:54 mark the WTF goes off the charts.

[Dukehorn]

[quote=ucodegen][quote=Ribbles]

PS: In my other work, I was a Defense Contractor doing military training.

NOTE: Quote about one of the victims:

On Monday, Ms. Wilford, 17, walked into a conference center at Broward Health North hospital flanked by her parents, a cast on her arm the only outward sign of the injuries that could have killed her. Doctors said the bullet wounds to her torso and abdomen had essentially healed, and that she could be physically ready to return to school as early as next week.

– she was shot 3 times. Another was shot 5 times and survived (both legs and through his back – no aputation). I also heard it was over 30 minutes from start till rescue was allowed in.[/quote]

Since it’s unclear if you’ve ever treated any gun wounds, why don’t we hear from one of the doctors dealing with the Parkland patients. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/what-i-saw-treating-the-victims-from-parkland-should-change-the-debate-on-guns/553937/

Oh, I forgot: one of those elitists with an anti-gun agenda……

Anyway, I’m fully supportive of the 10 round limit here in CA. I’ve got a pump action shotgun for hunting (3 round limit) and for home defense (6 rounds). I’ve got a semi-auto rimfire for fun plinking. Even in CA, no one is taking away my guns though I think the handgun registry (which lists which handguns can be sold in the CA) is a bit arbitrary. I think there’s a middle ground most folks can get to but the NRA won’t let the discussion start.

PS. I like how the NRA thinks federal agents are jackboot thugs but police going around engaging and killing civilians without any attempt to defuse the situation doesn’t really seem to be a problem.

[ucodegen]

[quote=Dukehorn]
Oh, I forgot: one of those elitists with an anti-gun agenda……
[/quote]
You have been on the board long enough to know that I don’t respond to ad-hominem, nor straw man arguments. I don’t know if this person is anti-gun/pro-gun or whatever. I look at the statements and look for inconsistencies.. ie: how does a radiologist see the actual internal wounds = they don’t, that is the surgeon. Do Xrays give good imagery to soft tissue = no they don’t. Does CT scans give good imagery to soft tissue = no it doesn’t (CTs use Xrays combined with digital processing to resolve an array of individual scans around a body into a matrix of ‘densities’. It is still an Xray). Does a MRI give a good image of soft tissue – yes and no. Frequency being detected in an MRI is resonant/spin frequency on hydrogen(dipole), which is about 64Mhz in the magnetic field used. Wavelength and resolving power vs diffraction etc end up mattering. This is why Gadolinium (contract enhancer – which is toxic) is used as a contrast medium.

I want rational discussion on gun subjects not emotional pleas, tugging on heart strings.

[quote=Dukehorn]PS. I like how the NRA thinks federal agents are jackboot thugs but police going around engaging and killing civilians without any attempt to defuse the situation doesn’t really seem to be a problem.[/quote]
No, I think that some NRA types think that ALL law enforcement act like jackboot thugs. That said, Ruby Ridge and Waco does not help the Fed’s image. On the other hand, I feel that the Fed’s held back too much on the Clive Bundy situation.

[outtamojo]

Teacher accidentally fires gun and injures student during safety lesson
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/14/us/california-teacher-fires-gun/index.html

“Dennis Alexander, who is Seaside City’s mayor pro tem and a reserve officer with the Sand City Police Department, was teaching a lesson at Seaside High School in Seaside, California when he pointed his gun into the ceiling and accidentally fired it, said Abdul Pridgen, the city’s police chief.”

How many more of these gun-trained idiots are out there wihout any common sense?

[zk]

When I saw the headline, I thought it was a joke.

This school district’s plan to stop shooters: Arming students with a bucket of rocks

But no. Superintendent Helsel says:

“Every classroom has been equipped with a five-gallon bucket of river stone. If an armed intruder attempts to gain entrance into any of our classrooms, they will face a classroom full of students armed with rocks, and they will be stoned.”

Mr. Helsel, you’re stoned.

[Author]

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