Mortgage charts

[gandalf]

BTW, I’m not suggesting the effects of government are always good. Clearly, they’re not. Greenspan and the Fed played quite an important role in the present circumstance.

However, asserting all government involvement is bad is equally idiotic. Government absolutely has a valuable role in regulating market conditions. In an ideal world, there’s counter-cyclical fiscal stimulus to offset business cycle contractions (accompanied by cutbacks when times are good).

Most of us believe there is a middle-ground role for government based in effective pragmatism that curbs inherent problems associated with markets and mitigates the likelihood of situations such as what we face right now.

Imagine a banking industry with conservative ‘rules’? Imagine that. This is actually consistent with what HLS is saying, BTW. Except that it REQUIRES government laws and regulations to enforce. You cannot depend on the market to regulate itself. That much should be evident.

Also, I find it hard to make room for a WSJ editor’s ‘revisionist history’ of the Great Depression given 80 years of ‘mainstream history’ written by people who actually lived through it, and especially in light of current circumstances. The similarities between the 1920’s and the first decade of this century speak otherwise.

[HLS]

Gand…
I didn’t say that ALL govt involvement was bad.
We actually agree about competent govt. needed…
I’m not suggesting that we have a Somalia scenario.

In my life, I don’t think that I have seen a competent US govt.
I remember Watergate, Jimmy Carter years, Reaganomics, Bushes and Clinton.

Have never heard any of them encourage responsible fiscal policy. Borrow from tomorrow to create the illusion of prosperity today…

The single root cause of the current global meltdown was 100% home financing being allowed/encouraged/condoned by the US govt, promoting a homeownership society.

Greenspan and low rates was not the problem. Low rates combined with minimum 10% down payment to buy a house would have kept the bubble from inflating.

ALL of the fraud, greed, & incompetence occurred as a direct result of 100% financing being allowed.

We have low interest rates today and no more 100% financing available. There is no bubble inflating today.

The govt will never admit that their incompetence and lack of oversight & ethics allowed this to happen.

Barney Frank et al, have blood on their hands.

FNMA was in bed with the govt. Responsible people now need vaseline to keep from feeling the result.

The 1929 crash and resulting depression was a direct result of the govt allowing the economy to inflate on artifical “wealth” The crash was inevitable. The Roaring 20’s were artificial.

The 2008+ crash was a direct result of the govt allowing the economy to inflate on artificial “weath”. The crash was inevitable.
Recent prosperity was also artificial.

It really isn’t complicated. It was good for the economy until it wasn’t good for the economy any more. The govt looked good until they didn’t look good any more.

Today’s global meltdown is far, far from over. The worst is yet to come and it could have all been prevented if only 10% down was required to buy a house after the turn of the century. ..HLS

[HLS]

Gand…
I didn’t say that ALL govt involvement was bad.
We actually agree about competent govt. needed…
I’m not suggesting that we have a Somalia scenario.

In my life, I don’t think that I have seen a competent US govt.
I remember Watergate, Jimmy Carter years, Reaganomics, Bushes and Clinton.

Have never heard any of them encourage responsible fiscal policy. Borrow from tomorrow to create the illusion of prosperity today…

The single root cause of the current global meltdown was 100% home financing being allowed/encouraged/condoned by the US govt, promoting a homeownership society.

Greenspan and low rates was not the problem. Low rates combined with minimum 10% down payment to buy a house would have kept the bubble from inflating.

ALL of the fraud, greed, & incompetence occurred as a direct result of 100% financing being allowed.

We have low interest rates today and no more 100% financing available. There is no bubble inflating today.

The govt will never admit that their incompetence and lack of oversight & ethics allowed this to happen.

Barney Frank et al, have blood on their hands.

FNMA was in bed with the govt. Responsible people now need vaseline to keep from feeling the result.

The 1929 crash and resulting depression was a direct result of the govt allowing the economy to inflate on artifical “wealth” The crash was inevitable. The Roaring 20’s were artificial.

The 2008+ crash was a direct result of the govt allowing the economy to inflate on artificial “weath”. The crash was inevitable.
Recent prosperity was also artificial.

It really isn’t complicated. It was good for the economy until it wasn’t good for the economy any more. The govt looked good until they didn’t look good any more.

Today’s global meltdown is far, far from over. The worst is yet to come and it could have all been prevented if only 10% down was required to buy a house after the turn of the century. ..HLS

[HLS]

Gand…
I didn’t say that ALL govt involvement was bad.
We actually agree about competent govt. needed…
I’m not suggesting that we have a Somalia scenario.

In my life, I don’t think that I have seen a competent US govt.
I remember Watergate, Jimmy Carter years, Reaganomics, Bushes and Clinton.

Have never heard any of them encourage responsible fiscal policy. Borrow from tomorrow to create the illusion of prosperity today…

The single root cause of the current global meltdown was 100% home financing being allowed/encouraged/condoned by the US govt, promoting a homeownership society.

Greenspan and low rates was not the problem. Low rates combined with minimum 10% down payment to buy a house would have kept the bubble from inflating.

ALL of the fraud, greed, & incompetence occurred as a direct result of 100% financing being allowed.

We have low interest rates today and no more 100% financing available. There is no bubble inflating today.

The govt will never admit that their incompetence and lack of oversight & ethics allowed this to happen.

Barney Frank et al, have blood on their hands.

FNMA was in bed with the govt. Responsible people now need vaseline to keep from feeling the result.

The 1929 crash and resulting depression was a direct result of the govt allowing the economy to inflate on artifical “wealth” The crash was inevitable. The Roaring 20’s were artificial.

The 2008+ crash was a direct result of the govt allowing the economy to inflate on artificial “weath”. The crash was inevitable.
Recent prosperity was also artificial.

It really isn’t complicated. It was good for the economy until it wasn’t good for the economy any more. The govt looked good until they didn’t look good any more.

Today’s global meltdown is far, far from over. The worst is yet to come and it could have all been prevented if only 10% down was required to buy a house after the turn of the century. ..HLS

[HLS]

Gand…
I didn’t say that ALL govt involvement was bad.
We actually agree about competent govt. needed…
I’m not suggesting that we have a Somalia scenario.

In my life, I don’t think that I have seen a competent US govt.
I remember Watergate, Jimmy Carter years, Reaganomics, Bushes and Clinton.

Have never heard any of them encourage responsible fiscal policy. Borrow from tomorrow to create the illusion of prosperity today…

The single root cause of the current global meltdown was 100% home financing being allowed/encouraged/condoned by the US govt, promoting a homeownership society.

Greenspan and low rates was not the problem. Low rates combined with minimum 10% down payment to buy a house would have kept the bubble from inflating.

ALL of the fraud, greed, & incompetence occurred as a direct result of 100% financing being allowed.

We have low interest rates today and no more 100% financing available. There is no bubble inflating today.

The govt will never admit that their incompetence and lack of oversight & ethics allowed this to happen.

Barney Frank et al, have blood on their hands.

FNMA was in bed with the govt. Responsible people now need vaseline to keep from feeling the result.

The 1929 crash and resulting depression was a direct result of the govt allowing the economy to inflate on artifical “wealth” The crash was inevitable. The Roaring 20’s were artificial.

The 2008+ crash was a direct result of the govt allowing the economy to inflate on artificial “weath”. The crash was inevitable.
Recent prosperity was also artificial.

It really isn’t complicated. It was good for the economy until it wasn’t good for the economy any more. The govt looked good until they didn’t look good any more.

Today’s global meltdown is far, far from over. The worst is yet to come and it could have all been prevented if only 10% down was required to buy a house after the turn of the century. ..HLS

[HLS]

Gand…
I didn’t say that ALL govt involvement was bad.
We actually agree about competent govt. needed…
I’m not suggesting that we have a Somalia scenario.

In my life, I don’t think that I have seen a competent US govt.
I remember Watergate, Jimmy Carter years, Reaganomics, Bushes and Clinton.

Have never heard any of them encourage responsible fiscal policy. Borrow from tomorrow to create the illusion of prosperity today…

The single root cause of the current global meltdown was 100% home financing being allowed/encouraged/condoned by the US govt, promoting a homeownership society.

Greenspan and low rates was not the problem. Low rates combined with minimum 10% down payment to buy a house would have kept the bubble from inflating.

ALL of the fraud, greed, & incompetence occurred as a direct result of 100% financing being allowed.

We have low interest rates today and no more 100% financing available. There is no bubble inflating today.

The govt will never admit that their incompetence and lack of oversight & ethics allowed this to happen.

Barney Frank et al, have blood on their hands.

FNMA was in bed with the govt. Responsible people now need vaseline to keep from feeling the result.

The 1929 crash and resulting depression was a direct result of the govt allowing the economy to inflate on artifical “wealth” The crash was inevitable. The Roaring 20’s were artificial.

The 2008+ crash was a direct result of the govt allowing the economy to inflate on artificial “weath”. The crash was inevitable.
Recent prosperity was also artificial.

It really isn’t complicated. It was good for the economy until it wasn’t good for the economy any more. The govt looked good until they didn’t look good any more.

Today’s global meltdown is far, far from over. The worst is yet to come and it could have all been prevented if only 10% down was required to buy a house after the turn of the century. ..HLS

[gandalf]

HLS, appreciate your comments. Very reasonable, all of it.

Just thinking, I don’t know if the 10% down rule would have prevented all of this, as the fraud and poor risk-taking extended beyond ‘Joe the Flipper’ residential real estate into Wall Street, corporate America and beyond.

FYI, there was an op-ed in the LA Times today you might enjoy:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-ferg6-2009feb06,0,6972232.column

Pragmatic, directed analysis of the current economic, banking and mortgage mess. Critical of status quo. Author’s comments about debt and Keynesian stimulus are well-taken, parallel your remarks.

Rationale behind the stimulus and quanititative easing seems to go beyond old-school Keynesian economics though, and author glosses over this. On another level, it seems to me current direction is really about destruction of dollar currency value long-term, which may be our ‘least worst’ way out of this mess. Just my 2c.

Enjoy your evening.
G

[gandalf]

HLS, appreciate your comments. Very reasonable, all of it.

Just thinking, I don’t know if the 10% down rule would have prevented all of this, as the fraud and poor risk-taking extended beyond ‘Joe the Flipper’ residential real estate into Wall Street, corporate America and beyond.

FYI, there was an op-ed in the LA Times today you might enjoy:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-ferg6-2009feb06,0,6972232.column

Pragmatic, directed analysis of the current economic, banking and mortgage mess. Critical of status quo. Author’s comments about debt and Keynesian stimulus are well-taken, parallel your remarks.

Rationale behind the stimulus and quanititative easing seems to go beyond old-school Keynesian economics though, and author glosses over this. On another level, it seems to me current direction is really about destruction of dollar currency value long-term, which may be our ‘least worst’ way out of this mess. Just my 2c.

Enjoy your evening.
G

[gandalf]

HLS, appreciate your comments. Very reasonable, all of it.

Just thinking, I don’t know if the 10% down rule would have prevented all of this, as the fraud and poor risk-taking extended beyond ‘Joe the Flipper’ residential real estate into Wall Street, corporate America and beyond.

FYI, there was an op-ed in the LA Times today you might enjoy:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-ferg6-2009feb06,0,6972232.column

Pragmatic, directed analysis of the current economic, banking and mortgage mess. Critical of status quo. Author’s comments about debt and Keynesian stimulus are well-taken, parallel your remarks.

Rationale behind the stimulus and quanititative easing seems to go beyond old-school Keynesian economics though, and author glosses over this. On another level, it seems to me current direction is really about destruction of dollar currency value long-term, which may be our ‘least worst’ way out of this mess. Just my 2c.

Enjoy your evening.
G

[gandalf]

HLS, appreciate your comments. Very reasonable, all of it.

Just thinking, I don’t know if the 10% down rule would have prevented all of this, as the fraud and poor risk-taking extended beyond ‘Joe the Flipper’ residential real estate into Wall Street, corporate America and beyond.

FYI, there was an op-ed in the LA Times today you might enjoy:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-ferg6-2009feb06,0,6972232.column

Pragmatic, directed analysis of the current economic, banking and mortgage mess. Critical of status quo. Author’s comments about debt and Keynesian stimulus are well-taken, parallel your remarks.

Rationale behind the stimulus and quanititative easing seems to go beyond old-school Keynesian economics though, and author glosses over this. On another level, it seems to me current direction is really about destruction of dollar currency value long-term, which may be our ‘least worst’ way out of this mess. Just my 2c.

Enjoy your evening.
G

[gandalf]

HLS, appreciate your comments. Very reasonable, all of it.

Just thinking, I don’t know if the 10% down rule would have prevented all of this, as the fraud and poor risk-taking extended beyond ‘Joe the Flipper’ residential real estate into Wall Street, corporate America and beyond.

FYI, there was an op-ed in the LA Times today you might enjoy:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-ferg6-2009feb06,0,6972232.column

Pragmatic, directed analysis of the current economic, banking and mortgage mess. Critical of status quo. Author’s comments about debt and Keynesian stimulus are well-taken, parallel your remarks.

Rationale behind the stimulus and quanititative easing seems to go beyond old-school Keynesian economics though, and author glosses over this. On another level, it seems to me current direction is really about destruction of dollar currency value long-term, which may be our ‘least worst’ way out of this mess. Just my 2c.

Enjoy your evening.
G

[cr]

You’re right Gandalf, it probably wouldn’t prevented all of it, of the bubble may have been elsewhere.

But I’ll tell you where Gov’t intervention DID help cause this last bubble: the removal of a 15:1 lending ratio limit on banks, and the repeal of the Glass Steagal act.

The Gov’t should stay out most of the time, but there are exceptions.

Our Gov’t however, has a tendency to jump in at the wrong place, wrong time, do the wrong thing, for the wrong reasons, helping the wrong people. If 2 wrongs don’t make a right, imagine 5.

[cr]

You’re right Gandalf, it probably wouldn’t prevented all of it, of the bubble may have been elsewhere.

But I’ll tell you where Gov’t intervention DID help cause this last bubble: the removal of a 15:1 lending ratio limit on banks, and the repeal of the Glass Steagal act.

The Gov’t should stay out most of the time, but there are exceptions.

Our Gov’t however, has a tendency to jump in at the wrong place, wrong time, do the wrong thing, for the wrong reasons, helping the wrong people. If 2 wrongs don’t make a right, imagine 5.

[cr]

You’re right Gandalf, it probably wouldn’t prevented all of it, of the bubble may have been elsewhere.

But I’ll tell you where Gov’t intervention DID help cause this last bubble: the removal of a 15:1 lending ratio limit on banks, and the repeal of the Glass Steagal act.

The Gov’t should stay out most of the time, but there are exceptions.

Our Gov’t however, has a tendency to jump in at the wrong place, wrong time, do the wrong thing, for the wrong reasons, helping the wrong people. If 2 wrongs don’t make a right, imagine 5.

[cr]

You’re right Gandalf, it probably wouldn’t prevented all of it, of the bubble may have been elsewhere.

But I’ll tell you where Gov’t intervention DID help cause this last bubble: the removal of a 15:1 lending ratio limit on banks, and the repeal of the Glass Steagal act.

The Gov’t should stay out most of the time, but there are exceptions.

Our Gov’t however, has a tendency to jump in at the wrong place, wrong time, do the wrong thing, for the wrong reasons, helping the wrong people. If 2 wrongs don’t make a right, imagine 5.

[Author]

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