More public pension loony tunes – now Providence RI is in trouble

[ctr70]

http://www.economist.com/node/21554232

Econmist Mag article on Providence RI city pension issues.

Wow the fire chief who retired in 1991 with a salary of $63,510 now makes $196,813 a year with his public city pension because of cost of living yearly raises. Wow that is $16,401 a month for life for sitting on your arse! Damn I picked the wrong career! But he doesn’t have the City of San Diego librarian beat who makes $240,000 a year pension ($20k/mo!).

These public pension issues seem to be coming out of the woodwork left and right all over the U.S. How these crazy pensions stayed out of the public eye and picked the taxpayers pocket for so long is amazing.

[Anonymous]

If our public pension system doesn’t change by the time my kids are out of high school, I will encourage them to apply for city firefighter jobs and do so every year they are in college. If they get the firefighter job, even after a couple of years of college, I will recommend they drop out of school and go with the firefighter job.

I have no doubt that someday, when they are 50 years old, my comfortably retired firefighter children will visit my grave and thank me. Because their former classmates – who were foolish enough to study accounting, science, engineering, etc. – will be still facing twenty more years before they can stop working.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=harvey]If our public pension system doesn’t change by the time my kids are out of high school, I will encourage them to apply for city firefighter jobs and do so every year they are in college. If they get the firefighter job, even after a couple of years of college, I will recommend they drop out of school and go with the firefighter job.

I have no doubt that someday, when they are 50 years old, my comfortably retired firefighter children will visit my grave and thank me. Because their former classmates – who were foolish enough to study accounting, science, engineering, etc. – will be still facing twenty more years before they can stop working.[/quote]

That’s if they don’t have a heart attack or stroke from stress, inhale too much smoke and burn their lungs, get second or third degree burns and have to go on prolonged disability, or get trapped on a hillside and perish trying to save a neighborhood. The possibility exists that YOU could outlive them.

Stranger things have happened…

[sdrealtor]

Harvey
Make sure to encourage them to learn about wine while in college. Its a good second career for retired firefighters.

http://www.hookandladderwinery.com/about.html

[EconProf]

Police and firefighters do not have particularly dangerous jobs. The unions have bamboozled the public with their dishonest advertisements.
Google “occupational death rates” to find many sources documenting dangerous jobs. Of the ten most dangerous occupations, not one is firefighters or police. Instead, ALL are private sector jobs: roofers, taxi drivers, fishermen, ranchers, farmers, etc. In other words, they are the taxpayers paying for the police and fire personnel. And generally they work way past age 50 or 55 to keep paying taxes toward those generous government pensions.

[CA renter]

[quote=EconProf]Police and firefighters do not have particularly dangerous jobs. The unions have bamboozled the public with their dishonest advertisements.
Google “occupational death rates” to find many sources documenting dangerous jobs. Of the ten most dangerous occupations, not one is firefighters or police. Instead, ALL are private sector jobs: roofers, taxi drivers, fishermen, ranchers, farmers, etc. In other words, they are the taxpayers paying for the police and fire personnel. And generally they work way past age 50 or 55 to keep paying taxes toward those generous government pensions.[/quote]

1. Fishermen (116.0) — In late June, two people died when a 20-foot fishing boat capsized near the top of Alaska’s panhandle. A third person was able to climb on top of the overturned skiff where he waited for rescue. As the BLS states, “this occupation is characterized by strenuous work, long hours, seasonal employment, and some of the most hazardous conditions in the workforce.”

2. Logging workers (91.9) — This occupation repeatedly takes a spot in the top 10 as not only one of America’s, but the world’s, most dangerous jobs. In one recent example, 61-year-old John Hutt, a Colorado logger, cut off his toes after he became trapped under heavy logging equipment. He then drove himself to an area where there was enough cellphone reception to call an ambulance. In the logging industry, he is considered one of the lucky ones.

3. Airplane pilots and flight engineers (70.6) — It may be hard to believe that working as a police officer is safer than flying a plane, but according to the BLS, this is true. The bureau states that there were 78 fatal work injuries for this industry in 2010.

4. Farmers and ranchers (41.4) — In August, a 40-year-old Illinois farmer was crushed to death by his tractor after it fell into a hole on his farm, which he was filling with dirt. And just this month a woman was hit and run over by a skid loader on a farm in Wisconsin. She was pronounced dead on the scene.

5. Mining machine operators (38.7) — The most infamous accident within this industry is undoubtedly the Upper Big Branch Mine explosion in April of 2010, which claimed the lives of 29 out of the 31 miners on site. The accident was the worst in the United States since 1970, when 38 minters were killed at Finley Coal Company’s mines in Kentucky.

6. Roofers (32.4) — Just three weeks ago, four roofers in San Francisco were seriously injured when the roof of a six-story apartment complex collapsed under them. And in April, a 56-year-old worker was re-securing metal roof panels on a building at Horenberger Field at Illinois Wesleyan University when he fell from scaffolding. He died in the hospital eight days later and his employer, Union Roofing, was cited by OSHA for two safety violations.

7. Sanitation workers (29.8) — A tragic accident occurred on Labor Day when a 17-year-old sanitation employee fell off of a moving garbage truck and was run over, killing him instantly.

8. Truck drivers and delivery workers (21.8) — In March of last year, a commercial truck driver was using his cellphone to make a call when his truck crossed the median in central Kentucky, striking a van that was carrying 12 members of a family. 10 people in the van plus the truck driver were killed. Just this week, the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board, concluding its investigation of the crash, recommended banning the use of mobile phones by commercial drivers except in emergencies.

9. Industrial machine workers (20.3) — The number of accidents in this field is staggering. In January 2010, a Florida man had his genitals severed off after an accident involving machinery at an Future Foam Carpet Cushion in Orlando. The company was was fined $42,500 by OSHA for 10 serious safety violations.

10. Police officers (18.0) — In 2010, there was a nearly 40% increase in line-of-duty deaths among U.S. law enforcement. The most recent officer death involved Deputy Sheriff Derrick Whittle of the Union County, Georgia, Sheriff’s Office. He was killed in an automobile accident while responding to a call on September 18th. He is the 48th law enforcement officer to be killed in a traffic-related incident in 2011.

The 10 Most Dangerous Jobs in America

[edited format because it didn’t copy over correctly -CAR]

——————

It’s important to note that the reason there aren’t more fatalities in police and fire work is because of the extensive training, protective gear, building codes, etc. — most of which came about because of unions.

Firefighters are not simply paid because of the danger involved, but because of the skills involved. Firefighters also have medical skills (most new firefighters are required to be paramedics, not just EMTs) in addition to firefighting, rescue , and some hazmat skills.

If having a dangerous job is a primary determinant for high pay, why in the heck are executives paid so much? From everything I’ve ever seen, most executives are not at all worth of what they’re paid. Do we even need to get into various middlemen and sales positions? Financial industry workers?

Yes, we all pay for these salaries — whether public or private.

[briansd1]

We should at least make it mandatory that police and firemen have college education.

I hate dumb police.

[SD Realtor]

Or all of us stiffs get the same pension plan as them.

I like that one better.

Why should they be the only ones who get a pension?

[all]

Airplane pilots and flight engineers likely receive more training than cops, yet the death rate is much higher. And their unions are fairly strong.

It was BG, not EconProf who invoked job safety. Right or wrong, cops&firefighters are sucking on the same tit that’s feeding the banksters. And unlike banksters they are instrument of oppression in the hand of the ruling class (i.e. banksters).

[CA renter]

[quote=SD Realtor]Or all of us stiffs get the same pension plan as them.

I like that one better.

Why should they be the only ones who get a pension?[/quote]

Social Security IS the private sector’s DB pension system. In both cases, employees and employers pay into the retirement system. In both cases, employees get a specific benefit for life. In both cases, they get cost-of-living increases to offset inflation. Both systems are backed by the government. Public employees and employers pay more into the system, and it is also a form of deferred compensation, so public employees tend to have higher benefit payments.

Now, I agree that some aspects of both systems are unworkable. But let’s keep things honest here.

[SD Realtor]

Why don’t we actually read about some comparisons between social security and public pensions.

http://civfi.com/2010/05/08/social-security-vs-public-pensions/

[CA renter]

[quote=markmax33®]Airplane pilots and flight engineers likely receive more training than cops, yet the death rate is much higher. And their unions are fairly strong.

It was BG, not EconProf who invoked job safety. Right or wrong, cops&firefighters are sucking on the same tit that’s feeding the banksters. And unlike banksters they are instrument of oppression in the hand of the ruling class (i.e. banksters).[/quote]

The vast majority of airplane accidents/fatalities occur in general aviation, NOT commercial aviation which is where you have the highly-trained, highly-skilled, unionized pilots.
—————-

“General aviation is typically defined as any noncommercial,
civil aviation that includes, but is not limited to, recreational
flying, pilot training flights, aerial acrobatics, aerial
application of insecticides or herbicides, aerial survey, sightseeing,
and aerial search and rescue. As of 1996, there were
187,312 registered general aviation aircraft in the United
States that flew a total of 26 million flight hours. Every year,
the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB;
Washington, DC) records approximately 2,000 general aviation
crashes, with an average of 765 fatalities. Even with
the recent decline in the number of general aviation crashes,
they remain the predominant source of aviation-related
fatalities. For example, in 1996, 98 percent of all aviation
crashes and 66 percent of all aviation fatalities were related
to general aviation (1).”

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/155/5/398.full.pdf

[sdrealtor]

[quote=SD Realtor]Why don’t we actually read about some comparisons between social security and public pensions.

http://civfi.com/2010/05/08/social-security-vs-public-pensions/%5B/quote%5D

Doesn’t it suck when those pesky facts get in the way

[CA renter]

[quote=SD Realtor]Why don’t we actually read about some comparisons between social security and public pensions.

http://civfi.com/2010/05/08/social-security-vs-public-pensions/%5B/quote%5D

Let’s do that…

Here’s what the source you’ve cited (not sure about their credibility) has to say:

“A public safety employee who enters the workforce at age 22, works for 44 years, makes $65K per year, and retires on their 66th birthday – earning a 3.0% per year pension factor – will qualify for a pension equivalent to 132% of their final salary, based on 3.0% per year times 44 years worked. This equates to a monthly benefit of $7,150, or $85,800 per year, a retirement income 4.5 times better than what a social security recipient would earn after working the same number of years and earning the same amount of money.”

——–

Here’s the truth (mind you, the 3%@50 formula is the most generous benefit formula available to most public safety employees, many have a 3%@55, or hybrid plan):

“Estimating Retirement Allowance

Retirement allowances are estimated based upon years of service credit, a benefit factor and final compensation. Your CalPERS Annual Member Statement contains your current service credit. Additional credit can then be added depending upon a projection of your final retirement date.

The benefit factor is the percent of pay you are entitled for each year of service. Under this plan, the percentage of pay to which you are entitled cannot exceed 90 percent of your final compensation.

Final compensation is your average monthly pay rate for the last employment period of either 36 months or 12 months, depending upon your employer’s contract with CalPERS.”

http://www.porac.org/[email protected]
———–

FWIW, I’m not defending the 3% formula, and was opposed to it from the very beginning, but what really irks me is the constant barrage of lies, hyperbole, and misinformation that is intentionally designed to redirect public anger from the financial sector to public employees who had nothing, whatsoever, to do with the finanicial crisis.

One more thing…I’ve read through a number of articles on that site and have found numerous lies. That is not a credible source of information. “Pesky facts,” indeed.

[CA renter]

For more information and actual FACTS:

http://www.iaff1775.org/news/local/294-the-truth-about-firefighter-retirement

[Author]

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