Mixed signals for buyers

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Duke: My dad used to say that the Silicon Valley’s dirty little secret was that all entrepreneurial vision was underwritten by Defense Dept dollars.

The model you mention was in existence from the beginning, and it started with companies like Xerox, IBM, HP and Fairchild. Stanford University also threw off a tremendous number of entrepeneurs and innovators (few folks know that SUN Microsystems stands for Stanford University Network).

The New New Thing has always been the raison d’etre of Silicon Valley and the adage there has always been Innovate or Die (or be acquired, which is where Yahoo is right now). Funny that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

I still get a laugh whenever someone quotes Al Gore and his “inventing the internet” nonsense. My dad had a DARPANet connection to Lawrence Berkeley and Lawrence Livermore Labs starting back in the 1970s. DARPANet was the forerunner to the internet, and a major interconnection point between the defense contractors, the universities and the testing facilities. As liberal as Stanford and Cal might have been (and continue to be), they didn’t hesitate to take Uncle Sam’s money for defense work.

[Dukehorn]

Very true,

I grew up in a NASA town with a few astornauts on the street over (Jack Lousma for example) so I got to see the DoD spend as well, and my father worked on the F-16 figher and M-1 tank engine designs (thermal flow).

I don’t know if I’d agree with the inference that liberals are anti-military. Granted some are (on the very far left), but I’d say a large number of my friends and I are cognizant of the necessity of the military and the need for military RnD and spend. (with the additional caveat that these friends and I grew up middle class so we probably have more military connections than the current generation). But this raises a sociological question about whether the widening economic gap between the rich and the poor serves to insulate many of us from the current sacrifices made by our troops in Iraq (and whether that’s a fault more attributable to the conservatives or liberals)

Oh I was planning on going to MIT on a ROTC scholarship till I failed my physical (dang 4 eyes).

I just really dislike how our nation seems partitioned into these artificial categories where it seems that just because I’m an environmentalist and pretty liberal on social issues that I can’t also support our military. Or if you’re in the military, you can’t believe in global warming. We need more political parties….

[Dukehorn]

Very true,

I grew up in a NASA town with a few astornauts on the street over (Jack Lousma for example) so I got to see the DoD spend as well, and my father worked on the F-16 figher and M-1 tank engine designs (thermal flow).

I don’t know if I’d agree with the inference that liberals are anti-military. Granted some are (on the very far left), but I’d say a large number of my friends and I are cognizant of the necessity of the military and the need for military RnD and spend. (with the additional caveat that these friends and I grew up middle class so we probably have more military connections than the current generation). But this raises a sociological question about whether the widening economic gap between the rich and the poor serves to insulate many of us from the current sacrifices made by our troops in Iraq (and whether that’s a fault more attributable to the conservatives or liberals)

Oh I was planning on going to MIT on a ROTC scholarship till I failed my physical (dang 4 eyes).

I just really dislike how our nation seems partitioned into these artificial categories where it seems that just because I’m an environmentalist and pretty liberal on social issues that I can’t also support our military. Or if you’re in the military, you can’t believe in global warming. We need more political parties….

[Dukehorn]

Very true,

I grew up in a NASA town with a few astornauts on the street over (Jack Lousma for example) so I got to see the DoD spend as well, and my father worked on the F-16 figher and M-1 tank engine designs (thermal flow).

I don’t know if I’d agree with the inference that liberals are anti-military. Granted some are (on the very far left), but I’d say a large number of my friends and I are cognizant of the necessity of the military and the need for military RnD and spend. (with the additional caveat that these friends and I grew up middle class so we probably have more military connections than the current generation). But this raises a sociological question about whether the widening economic gap between the rich and the poor serves to insulate many of us from the current sacrifices made by our troops in Iraq (and whether that’s a fault more attributable to the conservatives or liberals)

Oh I was planning on going to MIT on a ROTC scholarship till I failed my physical (dang 4 eyes).

I just really dislike how our nation seems partitioned into these artificial categories where it seems that just because I’m an environmentalist and pretty liberal on social issues that I can’t also support our military. Or if you’re in the military, you can’t believe in global warming. We need more political parties….

[Dukehorn]

Very true,

I grew up in a NASA town with a few astornauts on the street over (Jack Lousma for example) so I got to see the DoD spend as well, and my father worked on the F-16 figher and M-1 tank engine designs (thermal flow).

I don’t know if I’d agree with the inference that liberals are anti-military. Granted some are (on the very far left), but I’d say a large number of my friends and I are cognizant of the necessity of the military and the need for military RnD and spend. (with the additional caveat that these friends and I grew up middle class so we probably have more military connections than the current generation). But this raises a sociological question about whether the widening economic gap between the rich and the poor serves to insulate many of us from the current sacrifices made by our troops in Iraq (and whether that’s a fault more attributable to the conservatives or liberals)

Oh I was planning on going to MIT on a ROTC scholarship till I failed my physical (dang 4 eyes).

I just really dislike how our nation seems partitioned into these artificial categories where it seems that just because I’m an environmentalist and pretty liberal on social issues that I can’t also support our military. Or if you’re in the military, you can’t believe in global warming. We need more political parties….

[Dukehorn]

Very true,

I grew up in a NASA town with a few astornauts on the street over (Jack Lousma for example) so I got to see the DoD spend as well, and my father worked on the F-16 figher and M-1 tank engine designs (thermal flow).

I don’t know if I’d agree with the inference that liberals are anti-military. Granted some are (on the very far left), but I’d say a large number of my friends and I are cognizant of the necessity of the military and the need for military RnD and spend. (with the additional caveat that these friends and I grew up middle class so we probably have more military connections than the current generation). But this raises a sociological question about whether the widening economic gap between the rich and the poor serves to insulate many of us from the current sacrifices made by our troops in Iraq (and whether that’s a fault more attributable to the conservatives or liberals)

Oh I was planning on going to MIT on a ROTC scholarship till I failed my physical (dang 4 eyes).

I just really dislike how our nation seems partitioned into these artificial categories where it seems that just because I’m an environmentalist and pretty liberal on social issues that I can’t also support our military. Or if you’re in the military, you can’t believe in global warming. We need more political parties….

[raptorduck]

Ok, Allan, now I am impressed. Do you recall Arapnet spin off? I used to work at LBL. Lets not forget Bell Labs either or SRI for innovators. PARC was great, they gave us icon based computing, grid architecture, and Smalltalk.

And thanks to the Bayh-Dole Act, the government still funds early innovation that gets commercialized in a way no other country can match. Remembers, Japan copies, improves, refines, and stands on the shoulder of innovators to innovate improvements and they do it better than anybody, but original innovations start here.

[raptorduck]

Ok, Allan, now I am impressed. Do you recall Arapnet spin off? I used to work at LBL. Lets not forget Bell Labs either or SRI for innovators. PARC was great, they gave us icon based computing, grid architecture, and Smalltalk.

And thanks to the Bayh-Dole Act, the government still funds early innovation that gets commercialized in a way no other country can match. Remembers, Japan copies, improves, refines, and stands on the shoulder of innovators to innovate improvements and they do it better than anybody, but original innovations start here.

[raptorduck]

Ok, Allan, now I am impressed. Do you recall Arapnet spin off? I used to work at LBL. Lets not forget Bell Labs either or SRI for innovators. PARC was great, they gave us icon based computing, grid architecture, and Smalltalk.

And thanks to the Bayh-Dole Act, the government still funds early innovation that gets commercialized in a way no other country can match. Remembers, Japan copies, improves, refines, and stands on the shoulder of innovators to innovate improvements and they do it better than anybody, but original innovations start here.

[raptorduck]

Ok, Allan, now I am impressed. Do you recall Arapnet spin off? I used to work at LBL. Lets not forget Bell Labs either or SRI for innovators. PARC was great, they gave us icon based computing, grid architecture, and Smalltalk.

And thanks to the Bayh-Dole Act, the government still funds early innovation that gets commercialized in a way no other country can match. Remembers, Japan copies, improves, refines, and stands on the shoulder of innovators to innovate improvements and they do it better than anybody, but original innovations start here.

[raptorduck]

Ok, Allan, now I am impressed. Do you recall Arapnet spin off? I used to work at LBL. Lets not forget Bell Labs either or SRI for innovators. PARC was great, they gave us icon based computing, grid architecture, and Smalltalk.

And thanks to the Bayh-Dole Act, the government still funds early innovation that gets commercialized in a way no other country can match. Remembers, Japan copies, improves, refines, and stands on the shoulder of innovators to innovate improvements and they do it better than anybody, but original innovations start here.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Duke: Let me qualify what I said a little further, as I don’t want to create an incorrect perception. When I was younger, it wasn’t uncommon for Stanford academics to routinely protest against the military (and the ROTC program) and the government. At the same time, Stanford was raking in millions for DoD projects, as well as participating with local companies, including Lockheed and Ford Aerospace, on military and defense research.

I don’t subscribe to the notion that liberals are inherently anti-military or anti-government. As I have opined previously, I don’t find the word “liberal” a pejorative. I do, however, object to the left-wing and far left-wing. As a strongly conservative person (politically speaking), I also object to the Ann Coulters and Rush Limbaughs of the world, as I feel they stifle debate and discourse to the same or greater extent as their left-wing counterparts.

My dad was an aerospace engineer for Ford Aerospace and he worked on the Milsat and Intelsat programs during the ’60s, 70’s and 80’s. Because of the nature of those programs, Ford, Lockheed and the other companies were hush-hush about the work, but also because of the potential for negative press as well. Defense work was perceived in many parts of the Bay Area, and especially the campuses of Cal and Berkeley, as being evil. There were a lot of holdouts from the counterculture movement of the 1960s, and there were very left leaning academics at both institutions who loved demonizing the “military/industrial complex” and the defense industries. I always felt Stanford especially was very hypocritical in their desire to appease both sides.

I don’t think we necessarily need more political parties, I think we need to return to reasoned discourse and dialogue and turn our brains back on. This sound bite universe we now occupy, in conjunction with the witless stupidity of Political Correctness, has effectively hamstrung any attempts to have a meaningful discussion on any topic of worth.

The example of that government employee who was fired for using the term “niggardly” (in it’s proper context, and to describe a miserly program) is a prime example.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Duke: Let me qualify what I said a little further, as I don’t want to create an incorrect perception. When I was younger, it wasn’t uncommon for Stanford academics to routinely protest against the military (and the ROTC program) and the government. At the same time, Stanford was raking in millions for DoD projects, as well as participating with local companies, including Lockheed and Ford Aerospace, on military and defense research.

I don’t subscribe to the notion that liberals are inherently anti-military or anti-government. As I have opined previously, I don’t find the word “liberal” a pejorative. I do, however, object to the left-wing and far left-wing. As a strongly conservative person (politically speaking), I also object to the Ann Coulters and Rush Limbaughs of the world, as I feel they stifle debate and discourse to the same or greater extent as their left-wing counterparts.

My dad was an aerospace engineer for Ford Aerospace and he worked on the Milsat and Intelsat programs during the ’60s, 70’s and 80’s. Because of the nature of those programs, Ford, Lockheed and the other companies were hush-hush about the work, but also because of the potential for negative press as well. Defense work was perceived in many parts of the Bay Area, and especially the campuses of Cal and Berkeley, as being evil. There were a lot of holdouts from the counterculture movement of the 1960s, and there were very left leaning academics at both institutions who loved demonizing the “military/industrial complex” and the defense industries. I always felt Stanford especially was very hypocritical in their desire to appease both sides.

I don’t think we necessarily need more political parties, I think we need to return to reasoned discourse and dialogue and turn our brains back on. This sound bite universe we now occupy, in conjunction with the witless stupidity of Political Correctness, has effectively hamstrung any attempts to have a meaningful discussion on any topic of worth.

The example of that government employee who was fired for using the term “niggardly” (in it’s proper context, and to describe a miserly program) is a prime example.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Duke: Let me qualify what I said a little further, as I don’t want to create an incorrect perception. When I was younger, it wasn’t uncommon for Stanford academics to routinely protest against the military (and the ROTC program) and the government. At the same time, Stanford was raking in millions for DoD projects, as well as participating with local companies, including Lockheed and Ford Aerospace, on military and defense research.

I don’t subscribe to the notion that liberals are inherently anti-military or anti-government. As I have opined previously, I don’t find the word “liberal” a pejorative. I do, however, object to the left-wing and far left-wing. As a strongly conservative person (politically speaking), I also object to the Ann Coulters and Rush Limbaughs of the world, as I feel they stifle debate and discourse to the same or greater extent as their left-wing counterparts.

My dad was an aerospace engineer for Ford Aerospace and he worked on the Milsat and Intelsat programs during the ’60s, 70’s and 80’s. Because of the nature of those programs, Ford, Lockheed and the other companies were hush-hush about the work, but also because of the potential for negative press as well. Defense work was perceived in many parts of the Bay Area, and especially the campuses of Cal and Berkeley, as being evil. There were a lot of holdouts from the counterculture movement of the 1960s, and there were very left leaning academics at both institutions who loved demonizing the “military/industrial complex” and the defense industries. I always felt Stanford especially was very hypocritical in their desire to appease both sides.

I don’t think we necessarily need more political parties, I think we need to return to reasoned discourse and dialogue and turn our brains back on. This sound bite universe we now occupy, in conjunction with the witless stupidity of Political Correctness, has effectively hamstrung any attempts to have a meaningful discussion on any topic of worth.

The example of that government employee who was fired for using the term “niggardly” (in it’s proper context, and to describe a miserly program) is a prime example.

[Allan from Fallbrook]

Duke: Let me qualify what I said a little further, as I don’t want to create an incorrect perception. When I was younger, it wasn’t uncommon for Stanford academics to routinely protest against the military (and the ROTC program) and the government. At the same time, Stanford was raking in millions for DoD projects, as well as participating with local companies, including Lockheed and Ford Aerospace, on military and defense research.

I don’t subscribe to the notion that liberals are inherently anti-military or anti-government. As I have opined previously, I don’t find the word “liberal” a pejorative. I do, however, object to the left-wing and far left-wing. As a strongly conservative person (politically speaking), I also object to the Ann Coulters and Rush Limbaughs of the world, as I feel they stifle debate and discourse to the same or greater extent as their left-wing counterparts.

My dad was an aerospace engineer for Ford Aerospace and he worked on the Milsat and Intelsat programs during the ’60s, 70’s and 80’s. Because of the nature of those programs, Ford, Lockheed and the other companies were hush-hush about the work, but also because of the potential for negative press as well. Defense work was perceived in many parts of the Bay Area, and especially the campuses of Cal and Berkeley, as being evil. There were a lot of holdouts from the counterculture movement of the 1960s, and there were very left leaning academics at both institutions who loved demonizing the “military/industrial complex” and the defense industries. I always felt Stanford especially was very hypocritical in their desire to appease both sides.

I don’t think we necessarily need more political parties, I think we need to return to reasoned discourse and dialogue and turn our brains back on. This sound bite universe we now occupy, in conjunction with the witless stupidity of Political Correctness, has effectively hamstrung any attempts to have a meaningful discussion on any topic of worth.

The example of that government employee who was fired for using the term “niggardly” (in it’s proper context, and to describe a miserly program) is a prime example.

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