McCain”s moral compass

[drunkle]

[quote=BobS]

Here are a few empirically verifiable observations that should contribute to our understanding:
1. There is a huge, largely unpublicized, correlation between family income and hours worked annually.
Sounds simple, and it is. The poor simply work less, for a variety of reasons.
[/quote]

while the correlation may apply to the middle classes, it obviously does not apply at the extremes; uneducated laborers and the wealthy born/well connected.

[quote]

2. The income tax rate structure is already extremely “progressive” if measured by the % paid by each quintile. The lowest two quintiles pay less than 5% of the revenues, the top quintile pays over half.

[/quote]

by “extremely progressive”, i assume you’re refering to the progression affecting the bottom 75%.

[quote]

3. Historically, increases in marginal tax rates NEVER bring in the predicted tax revenues. People can simply work less or arrange their affairs to legally (or illegally) pay less. Indeed, regarding the capital gains tax rate, there is a perfect record going back decades of lower rates bringing in more tax revenue, and higher rates less revenue.[/quote]

does “predicted tax revenues” mean less revenues than before a rate hike?

do higher tax revenues under lower cap gains rate = higher total revenues? or higher than “predicted”? and does individual behaviour such as tax reduction strategy have much to do with it? ie., not cashing out holdings during times of higher rates?

i think these observations are inconclusive regarding fairness or unfairness of our tax system.

[meadandale]

You know, I find this whole ‘moral compass’ thread ironic in that marion is talking about ‘sticking it’ to her ex and sisters in another thread.

I’d strongly suggest that people living in glass houses refrain from throwing stones…

[meadandale]

You know, I find this whole ‘moral compass’ thread ironic in that marion is talking about ‘sticking it’ to her ex and sisters in another thread.

I’d strongly suggest that people living in glass houses refrain from throwing stones…

[meadandale]

You know, I find this whole ‘moral compass’ thread ironic in that marion is talking about ‘sticking it’ to her ex and sisters in another thread.

I’d strongly suggest that people living in glass houses refrain from throwing stones…

[meadandale]

You know, I find this whole ‘moral compass’ thread ironic in that marion is talking about ‘sticking it’ to her ex and sisters in another thread.

I’d strongly suggest that people living in glass houses refrain from throwing stones…

[meadandale]

You know, I find this whole ‘moral compass’ thread ironic in that marion is talking about ‘sticking it’ to her ex and sisters in another thread.

I’d strongly suggest that people living in glass houses refrain from throwing stones…

[TheBreeze]

I’m seeing a lot of familiar arguments hurdled back and forth in the above posts about the “fairness” of our progressive income tax system, our distribution of income in America, and income mobility over time. We are getting bogged down in anecdotal evidence, sweeping generalizations, and ad hominem attacks. Here are a few empirically verifiable observations that should contribute to our understanding:
1. There is a huge, largely unpublicized, correlation between family income and hours worked annually.
Sounds simple, and it is. The poor simply work less, for a variety of reasons.
2. The income tax rate structure is already extremely “progressive” if measured by the % paid by each quintile. The lowest two quintiles pay less than 5% of the revenues, the top quintile pays over half.
3. Historically, increases in marginal tax rates NEVER bring in the predicted tax revenues. People can simply work less or arrange their affairs to legally (or illegally) pay less. Indeed, regarding the capital gains tax rate, there is a perfect record going back decades of lower rates bringing in more tax revenue, and higher rates less revenue.

Do you have any cites to back these assertions up or did you just pull them out your ass?

[TheBreeze]

I’m seeing a lot of familiar arguments hurdled back and forth in the above posts about the “fairness” of our progressive income tax system, our distribution of income in America, and income mobility over time. We are getting bogged down in anecdotal evidence, sweeping generalizations, and ad hominem attacks. Here are a few empirically verifiable observations that should contribute to our understanding:
1. There is a huge, largely unpublicized, correlation between family income and hours worked annually.
Sounds simple, and it is. The poor simply work less, for a variety of reasons.
2. The income tax rate structure is already extremely “progressive” if measured by the % paid by each quintile. The lowest two quintiles pay less than 5% of the revenues, the top quintile pays over half.
3. Historically, increases in marginal tax rates NEVER bring in the predicted tax revenues. People can simply work less or arrange their affairs to legally (or illegally) pay less. Indeed, regarding the capital gains tax rate, there is a perfect record going back decades of lower rates bringing in more tax revenue, and higher rates less revenue.

Do you have any cites to back these assertions up or did you just pull them out your ass?

[TheBreeze]

I’m seeing a lot of familiar arguments hurdled back and forth in the above posts about the “fairness” of our progressive income tax system, our distribution of income in America, and income mobility over time. We are getting bogged down in anecdotal evidence, sweeping generalizations, and ad hominem attacks. Here are a few empirically verifiable observations that should contribute to our understanding:
1. There is a huge, largely unpublicized, correlation between family income and hours worked annually.
Sounds simple, and it is. The poor simply work less, for a variety of reasons.
2. The income tax rate structure is already extremely “progressive” if measured by the % paid by each quintile. The lowest two quintiles pay less than 5% of the revenues, the top quintile pays over half.
3. Historically, increases in marginal tax rates NEVER bring in the predicted tax revenues. People can simply work less or arrange their affairs to legally (or illegally) pay less. Indeed, regarding the capital gains tax rate, there is a perfect record going back decades of lower rates bringing in more tax revenue, and higher rates less revenue.

Do you have any cites to back these assertions up or did you just pull them out your ass?

[TheBreeze]

I’m seeing a lot of familiar arguments hurdled back and forth in the above posts about the “fairness” of our progressive income tax system, our distribution of income in America, and income mobility over time. We are getting bogged down in anecdotal evidence, sweeping generalizations, and ad hominem attacks. Here are a few empirically verifiable observations that should contribute to our understanding:
1. There is a huge, largely unpublicized, correlation between family income and hours worked annually.
Sounds simple, and it is. The poor simply work less, for a variety of reasons.
2. The income tax rate structure is already extremely “progressive” if measured by the % paid by each quintile. The lowest two quintiles pay less than 5% of the revenues, the top quintile pays over half.
3. Historically, increases in marginal tax rates NEVER bring in the predicted tax revenues. People can simply work less or arrange their affairs to legally (or illegally) pay less. Indeed, regarding the capital gains tax rate, there is a perfect record going back decades of lower rates bringing in more tax revenue, and higher rates less revenue.

Do you have any cites to back these assertions up or did you just pull them out your ass?

[TheBreeze]

I’m seeing a lot of familiar arguments hurdled back and forth in the above posts about the “fairness” of our progressive income tax system, our distribution of income in America, and income mobility over time. We are getting bogged down in anecdotal evidence, sweeping generalizations, and ad hominem attacks. Here are a few empirically verifiable observations that should contribute to our understanding:
1. There is a huge, largely unpublicized, correlation between family income and hours worked annually.
Sounds simple, and it is. The poor simply work less, for a variety of reasons.
2. The income tax rate structure is already extremely “progressive” if measured by the % paid by each quintile. The lowest two quintiles pay less than 5% of the revenues, the top quintile pays over half.
3. Historically, increases in marginal tax rates NEVER bring in the predicted tax revenues. People can simply work less or arrange their affairs to legally (or illegally) pay less. Indeed, regarding the capital gains tax rate, there is a perfect record going back decades of lower rates bringing in more tax revenue, and higher rates less revenue.

Do you have any cites to back these assertions up or did you just pull them out your ass?

[NotCranky]

Real power and connections probably doesn’t have much to do with 250k household or even single earners at that rate. Getting up above that and especially into the stratosphere, I think wealth aquistion can but not always does comes unhinged from hard work and merit and attached to connections, power brokering and deal making, some honest and some at least quasi- corrupt. These people also would be adept at getting tax advantages by law and loophole, Coinkdinky?

I hope there is someplace I could have pulled this from beside my ass. No I don’t have lots of data.

To be “fair and balanced”, on the other hand everyone who makes small change to 250k doesn’t earn it either. But at least we have a chance of helping the fed fulfill its mandate of full employment and getting enough to eat for breeding foot soldiers for the creme.Some of us vote, helping to perpetuate the myth of democracy.That should be worth something.

[NotCranky]

Real power and connections probably doesn’t have much to do with 250k household or even single earners at that rate. Getting up above that and especially into the stratosphere, I think wealth aquistion can but not always does comes unhinged from hard work and merit and attached to connections, power brokering and deal making, some honest and some at least quasi- corrupt. These people also would be adept at getting tax advantages by law and loophole, Coinkdinky?

I hope there is someplace I could have pulled this from beside my ass. No I don’t have lots of data.

To be “fair and balanced”, on the other hand everyone who makes small change to 250k doesn’t earn it either. But at least we have a chance of helping the fed fulfill its mandate of full employment and getting enough to eat for breeding foot soldiers for the creme.Some of us vote, helping to perpetuate the myth of democracy.That should be worth something.

[NotCranky]

Real power and connections probably doesn’t have much to do with 250k household or even single earners at that rate. Getting up above that and especially into the stratosphere, I think wealth aquistion can but not always does comes unhinged from hard work and merit and attached to connections, power brokering and deal making, some honest and some at least quasi- corrupt. These people also would be adept at getting tax advantages by law and loophole, Coinkdinky?

I hope there is someplace I could have pulled this from beside my ass. No I don’t have lots of data.

To be “fair and balanced”, on the other hand everyone who makes small change to 250k doesn’t earn it either. But at least we have a chance of helping the fed fulfill its mandate of full employment and getting enough to eat for breeding foot soldiers for the creme.Some of us vote, helping to perpetuate the myth of democracy.That should be worth something.

[NotCranky]

Real power and connections probably doesn’t have much to do with 250k household or even single earners at that rate. Getting up above that and especially into the stratosphere, I think wealth aquistion can but not always does comes unhinged from hard work and merit and attached to connections, power brokering and deal making, some honest and some at least quasi- corrupt. These people also would be adept at getting tax advantages by law and loophole, Coinkdinky?

I hope there is someplace I could have pulled this from beside my ass. No I don’t have lots of data.

To be “fair and balanced”, on the other hand everyone who makes small change to 250k doesn’t earn it either. But at least we have a chance of helping the fed fulfill its mandate of full employment and getting enough to eat for breeding foot soldiers for the creme.Some of us vote, helping to perpetuate the myth of democracy.That should be worth something.

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