Love of God vs. Love of Money

[Anonymous]

What do England, Denmark, Norway, and Iran have in common? Official religions.

State-sponsored religion, if it's Christian, is not something to be afraid of; just ask a Brit, Dane, or Norwegian.

Where did bounds on the absolute power (of kings) and the specification of enforceable rights (i.e., a written constitution) arise? Pre-Christian pagan Germany? Buddhist India or China? No, such originated in Greece and Rome, and flowered in Christian Europe, most notably in the Magna Carta (1215, in the middle of the misnamed Dark Ages).

I'm thankful that a group of Puritans crossed the Atlantic, wrote a great document on self-government, and planted the seed that grew into America.

Interestingly, do you remember from history class, how the Puritans established their initial economic system as communism, and abandoned it only after they nearly starved? Christians are idealists, and served as the catalyst for emancipation, prohibition/temperance, and suffragism.

http://www.susanbanthonyhouse.org/biography.shtml

Let us Christians keep our crosses and prayers, and you guys can keep CBS and Hollywood!

[carlislematthew]

What do England, Denmark, Norway, and Iran have in common?

Ummm. You’ve never been to any of these countries?

I’m from England and the “Church of England” is by no means sponsored, except in history, which is totally meaningless. English politicians rarely/never invoke God, or “faith-based initiatives”. It’s about as secular is you could possibly imagine (or dread, in your case). To compare England with Iran, in religious terms, is just asburd and shows a lack of understanding of England’s history and current religous makeup. Iran is a muslim-led country, England is a Christian “flavored” country, and the flavoring is very weak indeed.

Talk to a few English people about going to church, how the church fits in with political life, and they’ll probably stare at you blankly wondering when you’re going to deliver the punchline.

[speedingpullet]

I’d second Carlislematthew on the UK stuation.

The UK is much, much more secular than the United States.

The Church of England has had a steadily declining membership over the last 20 years, to the point where clergy are finding it hard to find (and hold) a viable congregation, and churches are being decommisioned (often coming on the market as refubished condos or SFRs).
Church attendance is very, very low, and is not increasing, due to the fact that the large percentage of church goers are aging, and younger people are not replacing them.
Most people see the church, and consequently christianity, as an outdated paradigm that has little to offer people in the modern world. Certainly, any body, group and individual that tries to impose christianity is met with resistance and resentment.

To use a housing analogy – comparing The C of E with christianity in the US is like comparing Apples with Oranges.

[powayseller]

Maybe that explains why England has a housing bubble, too.

I don’t want to start any religion wars here. I don’t even go to church, and I hate going to church, but I want to be open to all possibilities. It makes sense that more materialistic societies spend more home equity and take on more debt, causing a housing bubble. Communities which value family and connections and don’t compare their material wealth, don’t create housing bubbles. John Talbott mentioned something like that in his book. He said Midwesterners are more grounded and conservative so they don’t have housing bubbbles there.

Full disclosure: shares in IBG (I believe in God).

[Anonymous]

Housing bubbles are created because people behave like sheep, following what others do instead of thinking for themselves. This is very much like religion as most people follow religion for the same reason.

[powayseller]

deadzone, the sheep thing is very important to our discussion, and I’m glad to see it brought up again. Every bubble relies on sheeple mentality. Yet, we still have to answer why some cities have bubbles and others don’t.

Ok, I am *not* religious, so I have no agenda here, but it seems to me that truly religious people have that sparkle in their eyes, that non-religous people usually lack, although I have non-religious friends who sparkle too. In general, it seems that truly believing in religion makes people happier on the inside, and that could explain less desire for materialism. But I don’t know if this is proven, and I agree that many people use religion as a crutch, just like people use AA as a substitute for alcohol.

Back to the point: whether we like religion or not, the graph jg provided makes a compelling case for a link between religion and housing bubbles. Since we are students of housing bubbles, it behooves us to consider this link, and not dismiss it out of hand. I was so appalled when Gloria Steinem said we should stop research on the differences between male and female brains, because she didn’t want to think these differences existed; however, knowing these differences has been a boon to educators and it turns out that the research proved that boys and girls each have their own strength.

We’ve had two tantalizing links this week to explain why some cities had a housing bubbles, and others did not: Religion and more high-income workers.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I’ve been to England, etc. We lived in Europe in 1996 (Maastricht, The Netherlands) when I worked at Medtronic and had an expatriate assignment. My son’s first words were Dutch.

I know that Europeans don’t practice their religion to the extent that we do here in the U.S. My point was that official involvement of Christianity in government life — and that’s what England, Norway, and Denmark have — is not the death knell for left wingers and ‘forward’ thinkers. Far from it.

Just as in the U.S., there are great differences within the countries. To me, Amsterdam was akin to Los Angeles/Las Vegas, Maastricht was slow, conservative, family-oriented. In fact, it was amazing how family friendly The Netherlands was, compared to California. Motherhood was venerated, it seemed. Very different, and very nice.

[blahblahblah]

Did no one pay attention to the post from the person who actually LIVED in Texas? Try paying 2.5% property tax. On a 400K home you’re looking at 10K yearly. Now add the high energy bills you need to heat and cool your 3000sf McMansion in Texas where it is HOT in the summer and COLD in the winter. And don’t forget the higher insurance to cover you in case of hail, floods and tornadoes. Oh, and there’s no Prop 13 in Texas so your property value gets re-assesed frequently. These additional costs add to the monthly payment which keeps the house price low in relation to California (most sheeple buy according to the payment, not the price of the home). And of course there is an incredible amount of free land to build on in Texas so there’s no need for a lot of restriction on building permits; you will always be competing with a large amount of new homes in new subdivisions with shinier shopping malls and newer schools. This acts as another damper on home price appreciation. I’m sorry but it has nothing to do with religion, and Texans are not any smarter than Californians.

I will take back my remark about lots of fat people in Texas. I was just there a few days ago and people looked generally healthier than they do here in SD! Maybe that is due to the religion factor, but the difference in home price definitely isn’t…

[Anonymous]

Maybe it is because regular church attendees have 10% less income every week. Do banks calculate that into affordability?

[Anonymous]

JG – correlation does not prove causation.

Is there another variable which could explain both the increased “religiousity” and the run up in prices?

For example: the run up in prices is caused by either increased demand or constraints on supply. As some have noted, the supply constraints can be cause by regulation (perhaps to achieve an environmental goal). The increased demand may be caused by the economic health of a community which lures additional workers to the area.

Your analysis begs the questions:
* is religiousity correlated with less economically viable regions or less job growth?
* if so, is there an underlying quality that promotes both economic health and a lack of religiousity?

[Anonymous]

JG – correlation does not prove causation.

Is there another variable which could explain both the increased “religiousity” and the run up in prices?

For example: the run up in prices is caused by either increased demand or constraints on supply. As some have noted, the supply constraints can be cause by regulation (perhaps to achieve an environmental goal). The increased demand may be caused by the economic health of a community which lures additional workers to the area.

Your analysis begs the questions:
* is religiousity correlated with less economically viable regions or less job growth?
* if so, is there an underlying quality that promotes both economic health and a lack of religiousity?

[Anonymous]

JG – correlation does not prove causation.

Is there another variable which could explain both the increased “religiousity” and the run up in prices?

For example: the run up in prices is caused by either increased demand or constraints on supply. As some have noted, the supply constraints can be cause by regulation (perhaps to achieve an environmental goal). The increased demand may be caused by the economic health of a community which lures additional workers to the area.

Your analysis begs the questions:
* is religiousity correlated with less economically viable regions or less job growth?
* if so, is there an underlying quality that promotes both economic health and a lack of religiousity?

[Anonymous]

JG – correlation does not prove causation.

Is there another variable which could explain both the increased “religiousity” and the run up in prices?

For example: the run up in prices is caused by either increased demand or constraints on supply. As some have noted, the supply constraints can be cause by regulation (perhaps to achieve an environmental goal). The increased demand may be caused by the economic health of a community which lures additional workers to the area.

Your analysis begs the questions:
* is religiousity correlated with less economically viable regions or less job growth?
* if so, is there an underlying quality that promotes both economic health and a lack of religiousity?

[Arraya]

I would agree that money did take the place of religion. However they are both based on a flawed belief in the infinate, therefore figments of our imagination. I can live forever=home prices will go up forever=population can grow forever.

This the main problem with the world society and it will be our downfall. Basing everything on flawed assumptions. Geological limits are soon going to teach us a big lesson i.e. resource depletion, eco-system destruction, climate change.

We are a world of two year olds that do not know our limits, in one form or another. We really do love our stories.

http://iacs5.ucsd.edu/~pbang/dance_monkeys.htm

[Arraya]

I would agree that money did take the place of religion. However they are both based on a flawed belief in the infinate, therefore figments of our imagination. I can live forever=home prices will go up forever=population can grow forever.

This the main problem with the world society and it will be our downfall. Basing everything on flawed assumptions. Geological limits are soon going to teach us a big lesson i.e. resource depletion, eco-system destruction, climate change.

We are a world of two year olds that do not know our limits, in one form or another. We really do love our stories.

http://iacs5.ucsd.edu/~pbang/dance_monkeys.htm

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