Leasing solar panels-a good deal?

[no_such_reality]

[quote=UCGal]We haven’t put in panels because it just doesn’t pencil out yet. Some of the factors in our decision:
[/quote]

Ours doesn’t pencil out at today’s rates. The cost of the install buys a lot of electricity.

That said, we replaced our HVAC system. Then did the roof. Then had the solar installed. Our roofing contractor was the general C on the solar install. They did the mounting and the solar/electrician did the wiring. We had to fight with SCE to get full credit for the larger system. Since we had been in the house less than a year and the prior period was cool, our energy use was low.

One thing to check when looking at solar is what converter you are getting for your size. Converters come in a couple standard sizes. Since you’re paying to have the install done and buying the converter, the additional cost to max the panels for the converter is relatively small.

[an]

NSR, do you mean inverter instead of converter?

[CA renter]

[quote=UCGal][quote=treehugger]Trying to figure out if it is worth it. We are in process of researching a pool, but not sure how the solar helps off-set the cost if the pool/spa heater is gas? From what everyone we have talked with says the new pumps are so efficient they don’t use a lot of electricity. I had thought a pool was expensive, but apparently only if I heat it?
[/quote]

Maybe all my friends have older pump systems… It’s the pump costs that are the issue.[/quote]

Yes! When our house was empty, our SDG&E bills were around $130-$160/month! We called SDG&E to see if something could be wrong with the meter, but they refused to check the meter, claiming that the bills made sense for an old pump.

From everything we’re hearing, it makes a lot of sense to buy a new variable-speed pump. It’s on our “to do” list.

[no_such_reality]

[quote=AN]NSR, do you mean inverter instead of converter?[/quote]

Yes, the transformer inverter, although I think transformerless inverters are now available.

There’s a boatload of sizes, but a few sizes at any technology level, if you’re following what I’m saying.

So we have a SunnyBoy Inverter.

This is the SunnyBoy – 5000 (5kW)
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/products.folder/inverter-folder/SB5000US.html

This is the SunnyBoy – 8000 (8kW)
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/products.folder/inverter-folder/SB8000US.html

The cost looks like wholesale is about $600. Not including install (the same), or those add-ins (the same).

So if you’re looking at $25K for a total system, adding $600 for a larger inverter and a few more panels won’t bump you that much. Probably an additional $2-$3K for 2-3kW more panels.

[an]

[quote=no_such_reality][quote=AN]NSR, do you mean inverter instead of converter?[/quote]

Yes, the transformer inverter, although I think transformerless inverters are now available.

There’s a boatload of sizes, but a few sizes at any technology level, if you’re following what I’m saying.

So we have a SunnyBoy Inverter.

This is the SunnyBoy – 5000 (5kW)
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/products.folder/inverter-folder/SB5000US.html

This is the SunnyBoy – 8000 (8kW)
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/products.folder/inverter-folder/SB8000US.html

The cost looks like wholesale is about $600. Not including install (the same), or those add-ins (the same).

So if you’re looking at $25K for a total system, adding $600 for a larger inverter and a few more panels won’t bump you that much. Probably an additional $2-$3K for 2-3kW more panels.[/quote]
I agree with you. But not all of us have the luxury of having the correct facing roof with big enough space to fit all the panels you need. For me, the maximum number of panels I can fit on my roof is 15. If I go with regular inverter, then the max number of panels I can put on my roof is 12 (multiple of 4), so, we decided to go with an Enphase micro-inverter (1 inverter per panel). It’s a little more expensive, but it allow me to get the max number of panels on my roof.

[no_such_reality]

You still did the right thing, which is maximize what you could do.

Our roof doesn’t face the right way either. We’re east/west roof with west in some shade. So we have our panels facing east on the slope and open to the south. Best we could do.

That said, the solar estimated for kind of the minimum system to take us down to just below tier 3 pricing.

[joec]

It’s nice to see this discussion here. Is anyone consider doing a solar install themselves? I suppose being technical and generally understanding all the main components, I was considering just doing a solar system for emergency power when we get power outages and maybe to power a few rooms around the house full time with a transfer switch or something. I was mostly just thinking about it so far with a few reads before finding this thread.

Most of the systems you read about on the web/youtube seem to be pretty small of course, but I suppose you could always spend a bit more to do something nicer and bigger. Looking at pricing, those nice 240W panels run $460/per according to the first google search I found and a 4000 Watt Inverter is 2.1k online.

I was planning to back it up with some deep cycle marine batteries so it would work if the grid lost power as well since I was hoping to still have power without the noise of a generator at night.

So anyone else thinking of doing something like that or maybe smaller scale with additional room for growth as needed? I wasn’t planning to stick the panels on my roof initially since I have no idea how to do that.

I was thinking of something like this:
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/backup/refrigeration-backup-power-system.html

Thanks so much for the web link as well. With a 30% tax credit, this would be pretty affordable to power a few things if you were more concerned with power outages.

I looked up our old power bills and we avg about $140/month now so not sure if a full solar system would be worth it financially, but definitely want an emergency solution.

[an]

[quote=no_such_reality]You still did the right thing, which is maximize what you could do.

Our roof doesn’t face the right way either. We’re east/west roof with west in some shade. So we have our panels facing east on the slope and open to the south. Best we could do.

That said, the solar estimated for kind of the minimum system to take us down to just below tier 3 pricing.[/quote]
I’m partially lucky, in that our roof face North and South. However, the South side is much smaller than the North side. So, our system will take us deep into tier 2 during the Winter months and low to mid tier 3 during the summer months. Financially, that’s the best, since tier 1 and 2 from SDG&E are cheaper than solar. But it would be cool to if I could have spent another 50% more and have my entire bill covered.

[an]

joec, although I like DIY, I tend to shy away from big project. Solar IMHO is a huge project. So, I leave it to the pro.

[treehugger]

Upon further research it turns out the the solar system for the pool is just for heating the pool water. It runs the water from the pool through black pipes to heat it up and then pushes the heated water back into the pool while pulling in the cooler water to be heated. Since the cost to heat a pool up may be $100-200/day depending on the time of year and it would extend our pool season, I think we are going to spend the $4,500 to “upgrade”.

Looked at my current SDGE bill and it is only $69.95 ($4.73 gas and $65.22 electric including a $1.50 reduce your use day award). Pretty good for a family of 4 in a 3,000 sqft house. I guess the tankless gas water heater that came with the new house really is efficient. Also, my heater is gas not sure the regular solar would help much there either?

[an]

[quote=treehugger]Since the cost to heat a pool up may be $100-200/day depending on the time of year and it would extend our pool season, I think we are going to spend the $4,500 to “upgrade”. [/quote]
That number seems high. Is that your real number or are you guesstimating? This past July, we had relatives over for a little over a week and we went swimming everyday. We had the pool at 92 degrees and that whole month, our gas bill was $104. That’s inclusive of the water heater for the house AND all the cooking we did (our stoves are gas). If we don’t use the pool at all, our gas bill is around $18. That’s including us using the gas stove to cook 2-3 meals a day. So, it seems like your tankless water heater is probably saving you $6-12/month.

[Anonymous]

This is just a comment responding to the benefit of savings from installing panels. If you are going to lease the panels, it only benefits people that are paying upwards of $150.00 per month. For zero down payment, no up front cost, you can have the panels installed and have a monthly savings of approximately 30% of your current utility bill and you will be generating enough power that you may even want to convert all your appliances to electric. If your total monthly savings is $50.00 monthly, in 20yrs you will have saved 12000.00.. its not much but, for alot of people, it can be the difference of being able to run their a/c or not. Yes, it is best if you can afford to pay cash or get your own low interest loan but, this program is meant for the people that dont have that benefit of being able to afford or want to go through the hassle of paying for an appraisal, qualifying for a heloc and all the headaches that come from worrying if you can qualify for a heloc. I have a customer now that currently pays $300.00 monthly plus pays $200.00 monthly for propane, hes a contractor, going to build an 1800 sf workshop in his barn and is converting to solar. His lease payments for the panels will be $350.00 month but, will not have any propane bill any longer, his power bill will be locked in at $350.00 month even once he runs his new workshop and converts all his appliances to electric. This person will be saving over $400 montly if you consider his propane bill and the extra power he would be paying for when running his new workshop. In the 20 yrs that he will be leasing his panels, he will have saved approx 70000.00. I dont think he cares if he ownes them or not, the bottom line for him is immediate savings and no out of pocket cost. Again, this program doesnt benefit people power usage under $150.00 monthly… Just trying to put things in perspective for people considering aquiring the panels through the solar lease programs. Look at the bottom line, also take into consideration, rate hikes. In So Calif, the current rate hikes that have been approved total up to 16%, beginning with a 5% increase in 2012 and ending in 2014. If anyone would like to find out if you would save money by installing solar panels, I can be reached via my website: http://www.zerooutofpocketsolarpanels.weebly.com

[Author]

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