Insurance Claims – Know your rights

[Bubblesitter]

For those who lost their houses, my thoughts are with you.

With the rebuilding, you will need to aggressively stand up for your rights. Don’t accept your insurance company’s initial low-ball offer. Take time to review and perform an independent assessment. Complain if needed directly to the California insurance commissioner. http://www.insurance.ca.gov/

This is a very sobering story from Bloomberg

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601203&sid=aIOpZROwhvNI&refer=insurance

Victims of the Cedar file were victimized a second time around. Insurance companies will be slow-rolling and nickel&diming all the way out. They will be using every technique possible to minimize payouts.

You will have to be very proactive. Know your rights.

Good luck.

Bubblesitter

[CarlsbadMtnBiker]

1. Most HO policies carry a mortgagee clause requiring them to name the lender as a loss payee on the check. This is required by law and the lender determines how it will endorse and/or disperse funds to ensure their investment is restored.

2. Many carriers offer extended replacement cost coverage by endorsement than extends Coverage A (your primary building coverage) up to 175% with a FEMA trigger for major disaster – I believe that trigger has already been pulled by President Bush. Otherwise the typical extended replacement coverage is 135% of Coverage A.

3. Additionally, by endorsement, many policies offer inflation protection which prorates all your policy limits up each month until your next renewal.

4. For a home destroyed by fire, the Actual Cash Value is determined by market value (RE Appraisal minus the value of the land) or a rebuild contractors estimate less depreciation, which ever is greater.

5. Depreciation (for all losses incl minor repairs) can only be taken on building materials subject to normal repair or replacement during the useful life of the home e.g cannot depreciate the framing, rough plumbing, etc.)

6. You can rebuild elsewhere are still be entitled to Replacement Cost Coverage.

7. Most policies offer coverage for hotel, additional expense for up to 2 weeks for a civil authority action (e.g. evacuation) many times without taking a deductible.

8. Additional Living Expense coverage has been extended on most policies to 24 months and also gives you the option of electing a Fair Rental Value Option (FRV) that allows you to take payment based on the fair rental market value of your home without the need to submit any documentation/receipts. Recommended if you are staying with family or friends vs. when you are incurring a temp rental expense or hotel.

9. Don’t hire the services of a Public Adjuster (PA) who will take 8-15% of your claim dollars doing the same thing your own assigned adjuster does for free. Give your insurance company a chance first and hire a PA when and if you have issues with your insurance company.

10. Stick with local contractors with long standing reputations for the rebuild of your home.

11. Most polices also provide an additional 5% above and beyond the Coverage A (building) for debris removal, 10% for building code upgrade requirements and 5% for trees, shrubs and plants. Ask your insurance company to provide all of these limits in writing with proration for inflation (if applicable.) Also request a certified copy of your policy on day 1. These requests alone will serve to convey the message that you intend to claim all benefits available to you.

For Example, a policy with $500K in Coverage A would actually have $875K after the applying the extented replacement cost coverage now triggered by FEMA. Additional to this would be another $43,750.00 for debris removal, $87,500.00 for code upgrades, and $43,750 for trees, shrubs and plants.

Finally, most policies give a straight 10% for appurtenant structures (detached garages, sheds, barns, fencing, walls, etc.) In this example, it would total $50K.

Total available coverage excluding personal property and additional living expense = $1,100,000.00

Stay safe out there !! ….

-CMB

[patientlywaiting]

1. Most HO policies carry a mortgagee clause requiring them to name the lender as a loss payee on the check. This is required by law and the lender determines how it will endorse and/or disperse funds to ensure their investment is restored.

Are you sure it's required by law and not by contract between the parties?  If the law requires it, wouldn't ALL policies have such clause? 

[CarlsbadMtnBiker]

“Are you sure it’s required by law and not by contract between the parties? If the law requires it, wouldn’t all policies have such clause?”

I believe all policies do have a similar clause. There is case law in CA on this dealing with basic ownership interest. The lenders sued to protect their interest. No time to research but feel free.

[Bubblesitter]

Does anybody know any good Consumer-focused insurance web sites where fire victims should do?

Insurance commissioner has some good info.

http://www.insurance.ca.gov/

I would be most worried about the retired widow who just lost her paid-off house. The insurance claims estimator/adjuster will end up ripping these folks off with low-ball offers.

Does anybody know of any plans by any of consumer-friendly organization to inform these people?

The insurance companies number 1 goal now is to minimize payouts. They have very honed techniques to do this. See top of this thread for link on some of these techniques. Sort of disgusting. Any you folks in the insurance industry that can comment anonymously? Do the right thing!

Bubblesitter

[Raybyrnes]

You are totally off on your assumptions about the insurance industry. The primary job of an adjuster is to close to file. They do not want to spend hours hemming and hawing over minor bullshit. Show them a reciept and they are going to pay. Use reasonable estimates and they are going to pay.
Start claiming that as a landscaper you have 10 Armani suits in your closet and they are going to red flag and say show me some reciepts or credit cards. The same criteria holds true for your taxes. You want want the write off, go ahead and take it. We ask for recipts, you better have them or yuo face penalties.

The problesm that many older folks will run into is that they have old policies that do not have an inflation adjustment on them. This means that they become underinsured over time. It also means that they were not paying sufficient premiums for the coverage in this type of incident.

I would argue that this is one of the very reasons I choose to buy everything on credit card. I have a paper trail for all of my purchases. Additionally a digital camera or a camcorder is can be used to take pictures of your place. It take s less than an hour to do this and you can put this on a memory chip and hand it to your agent. Again insurance companies just want to keep the file moving forward.

[Bubblesitter]

The personal property claims are generally not the issue, these are small peanuts compared to the structure. CC receipts are certainly a good idea along with video taping of valuables.

IT IS THE PAYOUTS FOR THE STRUCTURES THAT WILL BE THE ISSUE.

I hope you don’t have a naive trust of the insurance companies.

Take some time and read the bloomberg article at the top of this thread.

By the way, filing a claim will impact your Choicepoint insurance score. Yes, this is score analogous to a FICO score that scores your insurance risk rather than credit risk.

In the past, I’ve always maxed out my Homeowners insurance deductible allowable under lender guidelines. Never file any claim unless it is catastrophic. One claim for stolen golf clubs will likely raise your Choicepoint score and result in higher rates or may result in cancellation of your policy at renewal. You may end up paying for those stolen clubs many times over. Catastrophic claims also result in an increase in your Choicepoint insurance score.

Bubblesitter

[Raybyrnes]

Funny about scores. Insurers use them differently. Some insurers attach the score to the property. Others will attach it to the owner. It is a good question to aske when shopping for insurnace. especaially if you have put in a claim or if you want to find out if the previous occupant put in a claim on the property you are buying.

And no I am not naive about insurance. In fact I am very knowledgeable on this area. I also know that insurance is a promise that is sold. You don’t go building and retaining customers by not paying claims.

Additionally, people don’t buy newspapers when it says thousand of claims paid successfully. They sell when the Front cover has an orphan child with his puppy in his lap and a woman stating they are homeless becaue of the insurance company. Whay they leave out is the fact that they did not pay their premium for the last 3 years.

For a better idea of good insurance companies and how they rate I suggest using AM BEst, Consumer Reports, and JD powers. Might be able to get a nbetter idea of how well a company deals with crisis.

[CarlsbadMtnBiker]

Raybyrnes … I agree with you 100%. Thanks for providing balance to this.

Bubbleguy, you are clueless here and stirring the pot with much too much pessimism as usual. Your link provided insight to the worst side of the insurance industry that any major industry has on the record, if you spend the time to research in order to provide a biased report. By and large, as the CA DOI Commissioner Steve Poizner stated himself, only 10-15% of the carriers have negative trends in their claims practices worthy of his office looking into.

A least a part of the problem in 2003 (Cedar Fire in San Diego) rested on the dramatic increase in construction costs and the consumer for not questioning coverage levels for fear of having to pay additional premium.

On your comments regarding underwriting, the actual score driven database is C.L.U.E.® (Comprehensive Loss Underwriting Exchange) report (yes, this is owned by choicepoint) and this remains but only one aspect of risk evaluation and not always entirely accurate. It would be difficult to find anyone that was non-renewed for a single wildfire loss event.

Additionally, carriers cannot simply raise rates without first going through a lengthy rate increase filing with the CA DOI that is scrutinized at many levels.

[Bubblesitter]

Carlsbad dude,
Why are you defending the insurance industry so much? You aren’t an insurance agent are you?

Selling “peace of mind” is great, but only if you can deliver.

The Bloomberg article was not mentioning some second rate, 3rd tier insurance companies, but big industry heavyweights with sizable market share, Allstate, State farm, etc. They are systematically trying to minimize payouts. They are using every technique to achieve this goal. This happened with the Cedar fires, Katrina and now it will happen with the great 2007 San Diego fires.

You are either an insurance indusry hack or very naive.

Bubblesitter

[Bubblesitter]

Carlsbad dude,
Why are you defending the insurance industry so much? You aren’t an insurance agent are you?

Selling “peace of mind” is great, but only if you can deliver.

The Bloomberg article was not mentioning some second rate, 3rd tier insurance companies, but big industry heavyweights with sizable market share, Allstate, State farm, etc. They are systematically trying to minimize payouts. They are using every technique to achieve this goal. This happened with the Cedar fires, Katrina and now it will happen with the great 2007 San Diego fires.

You are either an insurance indusry hack or very naive.

Bubblesitter

[Bubblesitter]

Carlsbad dude,
Why are you defending the insurance industry so much? You aren’t an insurance agent are you?

Selling “peace of mind” is great, but only if you can deliver.

The Bloomberg article was not mentioning some second rate, 3rd tier insurance companies, but big industry heavyweights with sizable market share, Allstate, State farm, etc. They are systematically trying to minimize payouts. They are using every technique to achieve this goal. This happened with the Cedar fires, Katrina and now it will happen with the great 2007 San Diego fires.

You are either an insurance indusry hack or very naive.

Bubblesitter

[Bubblesitter]

Carlsbad dude,
Why are you defending the insurance industry so much? You aren’t an insurance agent are you?

Selling “peace of mind” is great, but only if you can deliver.

The Bloomberg article was not mentioning some second rate, 3rd tier insurance companies, but big industry heavyweights with sizable market share, Allstate, State farm, etc. They are systematically trying to minimize payouts. They are using every technique to achieve this goal. This happened with the Cedar fires, Katrina and now it will happen with the great 2007 San Diego fires.

You are either an insurance indusry hack or very naive.

Bubblesitter

[CarlsbadMtnBiker]

bubblehead,

I am not in the insurance industry. You need to remember the original intent of my posts, which was to provide factual and useful information to those who may need it.

You decided to piggy back my original post on Insurance Company Info. with your anti-insurance company crusade, largely based on personal opinion and an article written by cut and paste authors with years of bad press at their finger tips.

There will always be a few mishandled claims, hopefully much less than 2003. However, this disaster remains very positive so far with the resources we have received from all over the country. I have lived in San Diego all my life and I am proud to see the efforts put out to make us an example of how things can be done right compared to the lessons learned from Katrina.

Most of the insurance representatives (some of which were evacuated or lost homes themselves) are truly good intentioned and will do the right thing. Give it a chance. Nobody needs your negative bulls*** I ask you, what value does it truly add to the readers here? Are you marketing for public adjusters who will run with 15% of their claim dollars? (real estate agents will do twice the work to sell the house for 3%)

Compare our posts. Which is more factually based? Skip the hype and go back to housing bubble commentary…

Done.

[Bubblesitter]

I smell a rat. You seem to know more about insurance than the average mountain biker.

I’m sure most in the insurance industry are good, ethical people. As with all companies, I guess your loyalties should be with the owners/shareholders.

I believe insurance companies provide a valuable service. Just don’t say you are providing “peace of mind” and then not deliver

Many of your points above sound strangely like potential talking-points from the insurance industry. I like the one disparaging the Bloomberg authors… “cut and paste authors with years of bad press at their fingertips”. You’ve had time between mountain biking jaunts to research these authors?

Guys out there….always question and stand up for your rights.

Done

Bubblesitter

[Raybyrnes]

MOuntain Biker sounds organized and extremely professional. More like an attorney who may specialize in this area.

Bubblsitter you sound more like a demogogue. You are on you pulpit sprewing bullshit and find one article to support your assertion about an entire industry. Good luck thinking you have any credibility.

[Bubblesitter]

For those of you in the insurance industry, you do usually provide a valuable service. I carry multiple policies, in fact I’m even thinking about adding an umbrella soon. Peace-of-mind is invaluable, however, my faith in your industry has been shaken by some of your industry practices.

The insurance industry has a black-eye from their responses to Katrina, cedar fire, and other large scale disasters. The industry has been able to reap record profits by systematically limiting payouts. Some of these practices are of questionable legality in many states and are at a minimum unethical.

The 2007 San Diego fire is a great opportunity to improve your industry’s reputation. I hope you rise to the occasion. Please do the right thing.

Here’s a cut and paste from the Bloomberg article we referred to. I’m a regular reader of Bloomberg, and I find its business reporting very thorough. I came across this article a couple months back and remember how disturbed and pissed I was after reading it.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601203&sid=aIOpZROwhvNI&refer=insurance

Home Insurers’ Secret Tactics Cheat Fire Victims, Hike Profits
By David Dietz and Darrell Preston

Aug. 3 (Bloomberg) — Julie Tunnell remembers standing in her debris-strewn driveway when the tall man in blue jeans approached. Her northern San Diego tudor-style home had been incinerated a week earlier in the largest wildfire in California history. The blaze in October and November 2003 swept across an area 19 times the size of Manhattan, destroying 2,232 homes and killing 15 people.

Now came another blow. A representative of State Farm Mutual Automobile Insurance Co., the largest home insurer in the U.S., came to the charred remnants of Tunnell’s home to tell her the company would pay just $220,000 of the estimated $306,000 cost of rebuilding the house.

“It was devastating; I stood there and cried,” says Tunnell, 42, who teaches accounting at San Diego City College. “I felt absolutely abandoned.”

Tunnell joined thousands of people in the U.S. who already knew a secret about the insurance industry: When there’s a disaster, the companies homeowners count on to protect them from financial ruin routinely pay less than what policies promise.

Insurers often pay 30-60 percent of the cost of rebuilding a damaged home — even when carriers assure homeowners they’re fully covered, thousands of complaints with state insurance departments and civil court cases show.

Paying out less to victims of catastrophes has helped produce record profits. In the past 12 years, insurance company net income has soared — even in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, the worst natural disaster in U.S. history.

Highest-Ever Profits

Property-casualty insurers, which cover damage to homes and cars, reported their highest-ever profit of $73 billion last year, up 49 percent from $49 billion in 2005, according to Highline Data LLC, a Cambridge, Massachusetts-based firm that compiles insurance industry data.

The 60 million U.S. homeowners who pay more than $50 billion a year in insurance premiums are often disappointed when they discover insurers won’t pay the full cost of rebuilding their damaged or destroyed homes.

Property insurers systematically deny and reduce their policyholders’ claims, according to court records in California, Florida, Illinois, Mississippi, New Hampshire and Tennessee.

The insurance companies routinely refuse to pay market prices for homes and replacement contents, they use computer programs to cut payouts, they change policy coverage with no clear explanation, they ignore or alter engineering reports, and they sometimes ask their adjusters to lie to customers, court records and interviews with former employees and state regulators show.

`It’s Despicable’

As Mississippi Republican U.S. Senator Trent Lott and thousands of other homeowners have found, insurers make low offers — or refuse to pay at all — and then dare people to fight back.

“It’s despicable not to make good-faith offers to everybody,” says Robert Hunter, who was Texas insurance commissioner from 1993 to 1995 and is now insurance director at the Washington-based Consumer Federation of America.

“Money managers have taken over this whole industry,” Hunter says. “Their eyes are not on people who are hurt but on the bottom line for the next quarter.”

The industry’s drive for profit has overwhelmed its obligation to policyholders, says California Lieutenant Governor John Garamendi, a Democrat. As California’s insurance commissioner from 2002 to 2006, Garamendi imposed $18.4 million in fines against carriers for mistreating customers.

“There’s a fundamental economic conflict between the customer and the company,” he says. “That is, the company doesn’t want to pay. The first commandment of insurance is, `Thou shalt pay as little and as late as possible.”’

CLICK HERE TO READ THE REST
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601203&sid=aIOpZROwhvNI&refer=insurance

[Raybyrnes]

I can appreciate that if you are not more knowlegeable on insurance and read this article, that your opinion would be biased. But this is a one sided article.

Insurance companies do in fact pay 30 to 60% of market value. They do this when policies become outdated and do not have inflation riders on the policies. Therefore people are underpaying premiums. Additionally as many poster readily claim, home values are over inflated anywhere from 5%% to 50% so market value becomes subjective.

It sort of like this. Everyone goes to the banker saying I’m rich I’m rich I’m rich when trying to get a loan. There effort is to get the lowest rate on a loan. That seems reasonable. But then they turn around and say I’m poor, I’m poor, I’m poor, when it is time to pay taxes. Sorry folks you can’t ahve it both ways.

Most people have an unfavorable view of insurance becasue it is a game of risk and many people would rather choose not to think in terms of probability. They also might not have the skills to do so.

When they get a call from an agent to discuss their policies they would rather hang up on them then have the agent tell them where they have difficiencies in their policies. This means paying added premium. Additioanlly most Property and casualty agents are highly encouraged to sell life insurance policies. Property and Casualty provides a conduit to this conversation. Because most people are not adequately insured in the are of Life and Disability they again would rather not discuss this.

It would be Unamerican to be proactive with respect to planning. We rather react to catastrophies then preparing to prevent them. We would rather point fingers then take responsibility.

I have had my challenges with insurance companies. I purchased a renters policy before traveling to Brazil for fear of lost luggage. Unfortunately on the way back the airline lost my luggage. Upon putting in a claim with my renters policy I found out that they cover “theft” of my luggage but would not cover a “Mysterious disappearance” I was later compensated form the airline but I still.

I still choose to defend the industry because their are many abuses and fraud that occurs routinesly against insurance carriers. It just does not make the front cover of the paper.

[Bubblesitter]

Raybyrnes,
You have some good points, there is probably quite a bit of fraud losses in the insurance industry. Many folks are under-insured

You can’t deny that a key goal of every insurance company during a disaster is to minimize payouts. It sounds like in recent years they have become more zealous in this goal.

Anyhow, I’m just hoping that folks hit by this terrible San Diego fire question and challenge their insurance companies. They need to complain if needed directly to the California insurance commissioner. http://www.insurance.ca.gov/

The insurance companies need to do a better job at delivering on their promise of “peace-of-mind”. These San diego fires are a great opportunity to improve the industry’s image.

Bubblesitter

[Raybyrnes]

“You can’t deny that a key goal of every insurance company during a disaster is to minimize payouts.”

The goal of all organizations is to maximise profitability and return value to shareholders.

This means adhering to sound underwriting practices that reduce their exposure on the front end. By collecting enough premiums insurance companies are able to provide long term peice of mind and get policy owners back to where they were before.

To accomplish this means that they often times having to deny claims that fall outside standard deviations and require owners to produce necessary documentation.

There are two side to the insurance industry. To grow profits they must aquire policyhoders. If policy owners lose faith in a company or begin to believe that insurers are not delivering on their promise they will lose policyholders. When insurers forget this premise they don’t have to worry about payouts because they will not have any customers.

Unfortunately it is an adjuster who has to bring people back to the reality that while the landscaping cost a fortune it was only covered up to the policy limits. By doing thisw they are able to provide a far greater net value to all of their constituents. It is a utilitarian principal. Greatest good for greatest number of people. Not perfect but all we got.

[Raybyrnes]

“You can’t deny that a key goal of every insurance company during a disaster is to minimize payouts.”

The goal of all organizations is to maximise profitability and return value to shareholders.

This means adhering to sound underwriting practices that reduce their exposure on the front end. By collecting enough premiums insurance companies are able to provide long term peice of mind and get policy owners back to where they were before.

To accomplish this means that they often times having to deny claims that fall outside standard deviations and require owners to produce necessary documentation.

There are two side to the insurance industry. To grow profits they must aquire policyhoders. If policy owners lose faith in a company or begin to believe that insurers are not delivering on their promise they will lose policyholders. When insurers forget this premise they don’t have to worry about payouts because they will not have any customers.

Unfortunately it is an adjuster who has to bring people back to the reality that while the landscaping cost a fortune it was only covered up to the policy limits. By doing thisw they are able to provide a far greater net value to all of their constituents. It is a utilitarian principal. Greatest good for greatest number of people. Not perfect but all we got.

[Raybyrnes]

“You can’t deny that a key goal of every insurance company during a disaster is to minimize payouts.”

The goal of all organizations is to maximise profitability and return value to shareholders.

This means adhering to sound underwriting practices that reduce their exposure on the front end. By collecting enough premiums insurance companies are able to provide long term peice of mind and get policy owners back to where they were before.

To accomplish this means that they often times having to deny claims that fall outside standard deviations and require owners to produce necessary documentation.

There are two side to the insurance industry. To grow profits they must aquire policyhoders. If policy owners lose faith in a company or begin to believe that insurers are not delivering on their promise they will lose policyholders. When insurers forget this premise they don’t have to worry about payouts because they will not have any customers.

Unfortunately it is an adjuster who has to bring people back to the reality that while the landscaping cost a fortune it was only covered up to the policy limits. By doing thisw they are able to provide a far greater net value to all of their constituents. It is a utilitarian principal. Greatest good for greatest number of people. Not perfect but all we got.

[Bubblesitter]

Raybyrnes,
You have some good points, there is probably quite a bit of fraud losses in the insurance industry. Many folks are under-insured

You can’t deny that a key goal of every insurance company during a disaster is to minimize payouts. It sounds like in recent years they have become more zealous in this goal.

Anyhow, I’m just hoping that folks hit by this terrible San Diego fire question and challenge their insurance companies. They need to complain if needed directly to the California insurance commissioner. http://www.insurance.ca.gov/

The insurance companies need to do a better job at delivering on their promise of “peace-of-mind”. These San diego fires are a great opportunity to improve the industry’s image.

Bubblesitter

[Bubblesitter]

Raybyrnes,
You have some good points, there is probably quite a bit of fraud losses in the insurance industry. Many folks are under-insured

You can’t deny that a key goal of every insurance company during a disaster is to minimize payouts. It sounds like in recent years they have become more zealous in this goal.

Anyhow, I’m just hoping that folks hit by this terrible San Diego fire question and challenge their insurance companies. They need to complain if needed directly to the California insurance commissioner. http://www.insurance.ca.gov/

The insurance companies need to do a better job at delivering on their promise of “peace-of-mind”. These San diego fires are a great opportunity to improve the industry’s image.

Bubblesitter

[CarlsbadMtnBiker]

Some very good points by Raybyrnes on the fraud issue.

Difficult to gauge but some experts say up to 15-20% of P&C indemnity dollars paid, are on straight fraud or the more common “padded” type claims (legitimate loss but inflated by fraud.) Of course, we all pay for this, as it is built into the actuarial calculations.

I am sorry to hear of your property loss on the Brazil trip Raybyrnes. Most would have simply claimed theft to get the coverage but you obviously have more integrity than that. I plan on going to Chile on a snowboarding trip next summer, so this is a valuable tip for me. I’ll have to make sure I get good travel insurance if available.

Do not under estimate the value of insurance. The general rule of thumb is that it should coverall all major tangible assets and your liability coverage should be equal or greater than your overall personal net worth.

I did not want this thread to become a debate about how good or bad insurance companies are, but wanted this to remain focused on general tips for those that are now dealing with their insurance companies for maybe the first time in their lives. I was hoping for more relevant and useful info, especially from the industry insiders.

Our fellow San Diegans who have lost everything need to make careful choices and know all the benefits they have coming to them. I think that insurance companies are more likely to overlook benefits not claimed but available and due to their customers, than to “systematically” reduce their payouts.

Here is a relevant article published in TIME “this week,” since we are still in cut and paste mode.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1675261,00.html?xid=feed-cnn-nation

Stay safe out there.

-CMB

[Raybyrnes]

CarlsbadMtnBiker

Tip for you. Pay for you ticket on American Express and contact them about the travel insurance. Think that it is fairly reasonable when compared to buying it at the airport. Especially if your gear is expensive.

For others on the board who have made recent purchases and have lsot their gear. Start checking your credit card policies to see if they might cover some of your losses.

I helped a friend move on sunday and question why he would pay cash for a Flat screen TV as opposed to using his credit card. I asked jokingly at the time if he ever considered the fact that with the credit card his NEW TV would be covered in the event his place burned down. He thought about thatfor aminute. Wonder what he would do if he was in that same situation again.

[Bubblesitter]

Resurrecting an old thread, as we start to approach fire season in San Diego in next few months.

Good heated discussion. CarlsbadMtnBiker is a good guy.

Only point is……

MAKE SURE YOU ARE ADEQUATELY COVERED. REVIEW YOUR POLICIES. YOU ARE YOUR OWN BEST ADVOCATE.

Bubblesitter

[Bubblesitter]

Resurrecting an old thread, as we start to approach fire season in San Diego in next few months.

Good heated discussion. CarlsbadMtnBiker is a good guy.

Only point is……

MAKE SURE YOU ARE ADEQUATELY COVERED. REVIEW YOUR POLICIES. YOU ARE YOUR OWN BEST ADVOCATE.

Bubblesitter

[Bubblesitter]

Resurrecting an old thread, as we start to approach fire season in San Diego in next few months.

Good heated discussion. CarlsbadMtnBiker is a good guy.

Only point is……

MAKE SURE YOU ARE ADEQUATELY COVERED. REVIEW YOUR POLICIES. YOU ARE YOUR OWN BEST ADVOCATE.

Bubblesitter

[Bubblesitter]

Resurrecting an old thread, as we start to approach fire season in San Diego in next few months.

Good heated discussion. CarlsbadMtnBiker is a good guy.

Only point is……

MAKE SURE YOU ARE ADEQUATELY COVERED. REVIEW YOUR POLICIES. YOU ARE YOUR OWN BEST ADVOCATE.

Bubblesitter

[Bubblesitter]

Resurrecting an old thread, as we start to approach fire season in San Diego in next few months.

Good heated discussion. CarlsbadMtnBiker is a good guy.

Only point is……

MAKE SURE YOU ARE ADEQUATELY COVERED. REVIEW YOUR POLICIES. YOU ARE YOUR OWN BEST ADVOCATE.

Bubblesitter

[Raybyrnes]

CarlsbadMtnBiker

Tip for you. Pay for you ticket on American Express and contact them about the travel insurance. Think that it is fairly reasonable when compared to buying it at the airport. Especially if your gear is expensive.

For others on the board who have made recent purchases and have lsot their gear. Start checking your credit card policies to see if they might cover some of your losses.

I helped a friend move on sunday and question why he would pay cash for a Flat screen TV as opposed to using his credit card. I asked jokingly at the time if he ever considered the fact that with the credit card his NEW TV would be covered in the event his place burned down. He thought about thatfor aminute. Wonder what he would do if he was in that same situation again.

[Raybyrnes]

CarlsbadMtnBiker

Tip for you. Pay for you ticket on American Express and contact them about the travel insurance. Think that it is fairly reasonable when compared to buying it at the airport. Especially if your gear is expensive.

For others on the board who have made recent purchases and have lsot their gear. Start checking your credit card policies to see if they might cover some of your losses.

I helped a friend move on sunday and question why he would pay cash for a Flat screen TV as opposed to using his credit card. I asked jokingly at the time if he ever considered the fact that with the credit card his NEW TV would be covered in the event his place burned down. He thought about thatfor aminute. Wonder what he would do if he was in that same situation again.

[CarlsbadMtnBiker]

Some very good points by Raybyrnes on the fraud issue.

Difficult to gauge but some experts say up to 15-20% of P&C indemnity dollars paid, are on straight fraud or the more common “padded” type claims (legitimate loss but inflated by fraud.) Of course, we all pay for this, as it is built into the actuarial calculations.

I am sorry to hear of your property loss on the Brazil trip Raybyrnes. Most would have simply claimed theft to get the coverage but you obviously have more integrity than that. I plan on going to Chile on a snowboarding trip next summer, so this is a valuable tip for me. I’ll have to make sure I get good travel insurance if available.

Do not under estimate the value of insurance. The general rule of thumb is that it should coverall all major tangible assets and your liability coverage should be equal or greater than your overall personal net worth.

I did not want this thread to become a debate about how good or bad insurance companies are, but wanted this to remain focused on general tips for those that are now dealing with their insurance companies for maybe the first time in their lives. I was hoping for more relevant and useful info, especially from the industry insiders.

Our fellow San Diegans who have lost everything need to make careful choices and know all the benefits they have coming to them. I think that insurance companies are more likely to overlook benefits not claimed but available and due to their customers, than to “systematically” reduce their payouts.

Here is a relevant article published in TIME “this week,” since we are still in cut and paste mode.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1675261,00.html?xid=feed-cnn-nation

Stay safe out there.

-CMB

[CarlsbadMtnBiker]

Some very good points by Raybyrnes on the fraud issue.

Difficult to gauge but some experts say up to 15-20% of P&C indemnity dollars paid, are on straight fraud or the more common “padded” type claims (legitimate loss but inflated by fraud.) Of course, we all pay for this, as it is built into the actuarial calculations.

I am sorry to hear of your property loss on the Brazil trip Raybyrnes. Most would have simply claimed theft to get the coverage but you obviously have more integrity than that. I plan on going to Chile on a snowboarding trip next summer, so this is a valuable tip for me. I’ll have to make sure I get good travel insurance if available.

Do not under estimate the value of insurance. The general rule of thumb is that it should coverall all major tangible assets and your liability coverage should be equal or greater than your overall personal net worth.

I did not want this thread to become a debate about how good or bad insurance companies are, but wanted this to remain focused on general tips for those that are now dealing with their insurance companies for maybe the first time in their lives. I was hoping for more relevant and useful info, especially from the industry insiders.

Our fellow San Diegans who have lost everything need to make careful choices and know all the benefits they have coming to them. I think that insurance companies are more likely to overlook benefits not claimed but available and due to their customers, than to “systematically” reduce their payouts.

Here is a relevant article published in TIME “this week,” since we are still in cut and paste mode.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1675261,00.html?xid=feed-cnn-nation

Stay safe out there.

-CMB

[Raybyrnes]

I can appreciate that if you are not more knowlegeable on insurance and read this article, that your opinion would be biased. But this is a one sided article.

Insurance companies do in fact pay 30 to 60% of market value. They do this when policies become outdated and do not have inflation riders on the policies. Therefore people are underpaying premiums. Additionally as many poster readily claim, home values are over inflated anywhere from 5%% to 50% so market value becomes subjective.

It sort of like this. Everyone goes to the banker saying I’m rich I’m rich I’m rich when trying to get a loan. There effort is to get the lowest rate on a loan. That seems reasonable. But then they turn around and say I’m poor, I’m poor, I’m poor, when it is time to pay taxes. Sorry folks you can’t ahve it both ways.

Most people have an unfavorable view of insurance becasue it is a game of risk and many people would rather choose not to think in terms of probability. They also might not have the skills to do so.

When they get a call from an agent to discuss their policies they would rather hang up on them then have the agent tell them where they have difficiencies in their policies. This means paying added premium. Additioanlly most Property and casualty agents are highly encouraged to sell life insurance policies. Property and Casualty provides a conduit to this conversation. Because most people are not adequately insured in the are of Life and Disability they again would rather not discuss this.

It would be Unamerican to be proactive with respect to planning. We rather react to catastrophies then preparing to prevent them. We would rather point fingers then take responsibility.

I have had my challenges with insurance companies. I purchased a renters policy before traveling to Brazil for fear of lost luggage. Unfortunately on the way back the airline lost my luggage. Upon putting in a claim with my renters policy I found out that they cover “theft” of my luggage but would not cover a “Mysterious disappearance” I was later compensated form the airline but I still.

I still choose to defend the industry because their are many abuses and fraud that occurs routinesly against insurance carriers. It just does not make the front cover of the paper.

[Raybyrnes]

I can appreciate that if you are not more knowlegeable on insurance and read this article, that your opinion would be biased. But this is a one sided article.

Insurance companies do in fact pay 30 to 60% of market value. They do this when policies become outdated and do not have inflation riders on the policies. Therefore people are underpaying premiums. Additionally as many poster readily claim, home values are over inflated anywhere from 5%% to 50% so market value becomes subjective.

It sort of like this. Everyone goes to the banker saying I’m rich I’m rich I’m rich when trying to get a loan. There effort is to get the lowest rate on a loan. That seems reasonable. But then they turn around and say I’m poor, I’m poor, I’m poor, when it is time to pay taxes. Sorry folks you can’t ahve it both ways.

Most people have an unfavorable view of insurance becasue it is a game of risk and many people would rather choose not to think in terms of probability. They also might not have the skills to do so.

When they get a call from an agent to discuss their policies they would rather hang up on them then have the agent tell them where they have difficiencies in their policies. This means paying added premium. Additioanlly most Property and casualty agents are highly encouraged to sell life insurance policies. Property and Casualty provides a conduit to this conversation. Because most people are not adequately insured in the are of Life and Disability they again would rather not discuss this.

It would be Unamerican to be proactive with respect to planning. We rather react to catastrophies then preparing to prevent them. We would rather point fingers then take responsibility.

I have had my challenges with insurance companies. I purchased a renters policy before traveling to Brazil for fear of lost luggage. Unfortunately on the way back the airline lost my luggage. Upon putting in a claim with my renters policy I found out that they cover “theft” of my luggage but would not cover a “Mysterious disappearance” I was later compensated form the airline but I still.

I still choose to defend the industry because their are many abuses and fraud that occurs routinesly against insurance carriers. It just does not make the front cover of the paper.

[Bubblesitter]

For those of you in the insurance industry, you do usually provide a valuable service. I carry multiple policies, in fact I’m even thinking about adding an umbrella soon. Peace-of-mind is invaluable, however, my faith in your industry has been shaken by some of your industry practices.

The insurance industry has a black-eye from their responses to Katrina, cedar fire, and other large scale disasters. The industry has been able to reap record profits by systematically limiting payouts. Some of these practices are of questionable legality in many states and are at a minimum unethical.

The 2007 San Diego fire is a great opportunity to improve your industry’s reputation. I hope you rise to the occasion. Please do the right thing.

Here’s a cut and paste from the Bloomberg article we referred to. I’m a regular reader of Bloomberg, and I find its business reporting very thorough. I came across this article a couple months back and remember how disturbed and pissed I was after reading it.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601203&sid=aIOpZROwhvNI&refer=insurance

Home Insurers’ Secret Tactics Cheat Fire Victims, Hike Profits
By David Dietz and Darrell Preston

Aug. 3 (Bloomberg) — Julie Tunnell remembers standing in her debris-strewn driveway when the tall man in blue jeans approached. Her northern San Diego tudor-style home had been incinerated a week earlier in the largest wildfire in California history. The blaze in October and November 2003 swept across an area 19 times the size of Manhattan, destroying 2,232 homes and killing 15 people.

Now came another blow. A representative of State Farm Mutual Automobile Insurance Co., the largest home insurer in the U.S., came to the charred remnants of Tunnell’s home to tell her the company would pay just $220,000 of the estimated $306,000 cost of rebuilding the house.

“It was devastating; I stood there and cried,” says Tunnell, 42, who teaches accounting at San Diego City College. “I felt absolutely abandoned.”

Tunnell joined thousands of people in the U.S. who already knew a secret about the insurance industry: When there’s a disaster, the companies homeowners count on to protect them from financial ruin routinely pay less than what policies promise.

Insurers often pay 30-60 percent of the cost of rebuilding a damaged home — even when carriers assure homeowners they’re fully covered, thousands of complaints with state insurance departments and civil court cases show.

Paying out less to victims of catastrophes has helped produce record profits. In the past 12 years, insurance company net income has soared — even in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, the worst natural disaster in U.S. history.

Highest-Ever Profits

Property-casualty insurers, which cover damage to homes and cars, reported their highest-ever profit of $73 billion last year, up 49 percent from $49 billion in 2005, according to Highline Data LLC, a Cambridge, Massachusetts-based firm that compiles insurance industry data.

The 60 million U.S. homeowners who pay more than $50 billion a year in insurance premiums are often disappointed when they discover insurers won’t pay the full cost of rebuilding their damaged or destroyed homes.

Property insurers systematically deny and reduce their policyholders’ claims, according to court records in California, Florida, Illinois, Mississippi, New Hampshire and Tennessee.

The insurance companies routinely refuse to pay market prices for homes and replacement contents, they use computer programs to cut payouts, they change policy coverage with no clear explanation, they ignore or alter engineering reports, and they sometimes ask their adjusters to lie to customers, court records and interviews with former employees and state regulators show.

`It’s Despicable’

As Mississippi Republican U.S. Senator Trent Lott and thousands of other homeowners have found, insurers make low offers — or refuse to pay at all — and then dare people to fight back.

“It’s despicable not to make good-faith offers to everybody,” says Robert Hunter, who was Texas insurance commissioner from 1993 to 1995 and is now insurance director at the Washington-based Consumer Federation of America.

“Money managers have taken over this whole industry,” Hunter says. “Their eyes are not on people who are hurt but on the bottom line for the next quarter.”

The industry’s drive for profit has overwhelmed its obligation to policyholders, says California Lieutenant Governor John Garamendi, a Democrat. As California’s insurance commissioner from 2002 to 2006, Garamendi imposed $18.4 million in fines against carriers for mistreating customers.

“There’s a fundamental economic conflict between the customer and the company,” he says. “That is, the company doesn’t want to pay. The first commandment of insurance is, `Thou shalt pay as little and as late as possible.”’

CLICK HERE TO READ THE REST
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601203&sid=aIOpZROwhvNI&refer=insurance

[Bubblesitter]

For those of you in the insurance industry, you do usually provide a valuable service. I carry multiple policies, in fact I’m even thinking about adding an umbrella soon. Peace-of-mind is invaluable, however, my faith in your industry has been shaken by some of your industry practices.

The insurance industry has a black-eye from their responses to Katrina, cedar fire, and other large scale disasters. The industry has been able to reap record profits by systematically limiting payouts. Some of these practices are of questionable legality in many states and are at a minimum unethical.

The 2007 San Diego fire is a great opportunity to improve your industry’s reputation. I hope you rise to the occasion. Please do the right thing.

Here’s a cut and paste from the Bloomberg article we referred to. I’m a regular reader of Bloomberg, and I find its business reporting very thorough. I came across this article a couple months back and remember how disturbed and pissed I was after reading it.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601203&sid=aIOpZROwhvNI&refer=insurance

Home Insurers’ Secret Tactics Cheat Fire Victims, Hike Profits
By David Dietz and Darrell Preston

Aug. 3 (Bloomberg) — Julie Tunnell remembers standing in her debris-strewn driveway when the tall man in blue jeans approached. Her northern San Diego tudor-style home had been incinerated a week earlier in the largest wildfire in California history. The blaze in October and November 2003 swept across an area 19 times the size of Manhattan, destroying 2,232 homes and killing 15 people.

Now came another blow. A representative of State Farm Mutual Automobile Insurance Co., the largest home insurer in the U.S., came to the charred remnants of Tunnell’s home to tell her the company would pay just $220,000 of the estimated $306,000 cost of rebuilding the house.

“It was devastating; I stood there and cried,” says Tunnell, 42, who teaches accounting at San Diego City College. “I felt absolutely abandoned.”

Tunnell joined thousands of people in the U.S. who already knew a secret about the insurance industry: When there’s a disaster, the companies homeowners count on to protect them from financial ruin routinely pay less than what policies promise.

Insurers often pay 30-60 percent of the cost of rebuilding a damaged home — even when carriers assure homeowners they’re fully covered, thousands of complaints with state insurance departments and civil court cases show.

Paying out less to victims of catastrophes has helped produce record profits. In the past 12 years, insurance company net income has soared — even in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, the worst natural disaster in U.S. history.

Highest-Ever Profits

Property-casualty insurers, which cover damage to homes and cars, reported their highest-ever profit of $73 billion last year, up 49 percent from $49 billion in 2005, according to Highline Data LLC, a Cambridge, Massachusetts-based firm that compiles insurance industry data.

The 60 million U.S. homeowners who pay more than $50 billion a year in insurance premiums are often disappointed when they discover insurers won’t pay the full cost of rebuilding their damaged or destroyed homes.

Property insurers systematically deny and reduce their policyholders’ claims, according to court records in California, Florida, Illinois, Mississippi, New Hampshire and Tennessee.

The insurance companies routinely refuse to pay market prices for homes and replacement contents, they use computer programs to cut payouts, they change policy coverage with no clear explanation, they ignore or alter engineering reports, and they sometimes ask their adjusters to lie to customers, court records and interviews with former employees and state regulators show.

`It’s Despicable’

As Mississippi Republican U.S. Senator Trent Lott and thousands of other homeowners have found, insurers make low offers — or refuse to pay at all — and then dare people to fight back.

“It’s despicable not to make good-faith offers to everybody,” says Robert Hunter, who was Texas insurance commissioner from 1993 to 1995 and is now insurance director at the Washington-based Consumer Federation of America.

“Money managers have taken over this whole industry,” Hunter says. “Their eyes are not on people who are hurt but on the bottom line for the next quarter.”

The industry’s drive for profit has overwhelmed its obligation to policyholders, says California Lieutenant Governor John Garamendi, a Democrat. As California’s insurance commissioner from 2002 to 2006, Garamendi imposed $18.4 million in fines against carriers for mistreating customers.

“There’s a fundamental economic conflict between the customer and the company,” he says. “That is, the company doesn’t want to pay. The first commandment of insurance is, `Thou shalt pay as little and as late as possible.”’

CLICK HERE TO READ THE REST
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601203&sid=aIOpZROwhvNI&refer=insurance

[Raybyrnes]

MOuntain Biker sounds organized and extremely professional. More like an attorney who may specialize in this area.

Bubblsitter you sound more like a demogogue. You are on you pulpit sprewing bullshit and find one article to support your assertion about an entire industry. Good luck thinking you have any credibility.

[Raybyrnes]

MOuntain Biker sounds organized and extremely professional. More like an attorney who may specialize in this area.

Bubblsitter you sound more like a demogogue. You are on you pulpit sprewing bullshit and find one article to support your assertion about an entire industry. Good luck thinking you have any credibility.

[Bubblesitter]

I smell a rat. You seem to know more about insurance than the average mountain biker.

I’m sure most in the insurance industry are good, ethical people. As with all companies, I guess your loyalties should be with the owners/shareholders.

I believe insurance companies provide a valuable service. Just don’t say you are providing “peace of mind” and then not deliver

Many of your points above sound strangely like potential talking-points from the insurance industry. I like the one disparaging the Bloomberg authors… “cut and paste authors with years of bad press at their fingertips”. You’ve had time between mountain biking jaunts to research these authors?

Guys out there….always question and stand up for your rights.

Done

Bubblesitter

[Bubblesitter]

I smell a rat. You seem to know more about insurance than the average mountain biker.

I’m sure most in the insurance industry are good, ethical people. As with all companies, I guess your loyalties should be with the owners/shareholders.

I believe insurance companies provide a valuable service. Just don’t say you are providing “peace of mind” and then not deliver

Many of your points above sound strangely like potential talking-points from the insurance industry. I like the one disparaging the Bloomberg authors… “cut and paste authors with years of bad press at their fingertips”. You’ve had time between mountain biking jaunts to research these authors?

Guys out there….always question and stand up for your rights.

Done

Bubblesitter

[CarlsbadMtnBiker]

bubblehead,

I am not in the insurance industry. You need to remember the original intent of my posts, which was to provide factual and useful information to those who may need it.

You decided to piggy back my original post on Insurance Company Info. with your anti-insurance company crusade, largely based on personal opinion and an article written by cut and paste authors with years of bad press at their finger tips.

There will always be a few mishandled claims, hopefully much less than 2003. However, this disaster remains very positive so far with the resources we have received from all over the country. I have lived in San Diego all my life and I am proud to see the efforts put out to make us an example of how things can be done right compared to the lessons learned from Katrina.

Most of the insurance representatives (some of which were evacuated or lost homes themselves) are truly good intentioned and will do the right thing. Give it a chance. Nobody needs your negative bulls*** I ask you, what value does it truly add to the readers here? Are you marketing for public adjusters who will run with 15% of their claim dollars? (real estate agents will do twice the work to sell the house for 3%)

Compare our posts. Which is more factually based? Skip the hype and go back to housing bubble commentary…

Done.

[CarlsbadMtnBiker]

bubblehead,

I am not in the insurance industry. You need to remember the original intent of my posts, which was to provide factual and useful information to those who may need it.

You decided to piggy back my original post on Insurance Company Info. with your anti-insurance company crusade, largely based on personal opinion and an article written by cut and paste authors with years of bad press at their finger tips.

There will always be a few mishandled claims, hopefully much less than 2003. However, this disaster remains very positive so far with the resources we have received from all over the country. I have lived in San Diego all my life and I am proud to see the efforts put out to make us an example of how things can be done right compared to the lessons learned from Katrina.

Most of the insurance representatives (some of which were evacuated or lost homes themselves) are truly good intentioned and will do the right thing. Give it a chance. Nobody needs your negative bulls*** I ask you, what value does it truly add to the readers here? Are you marketing for public adjusters who will run with 15% of their claim dollars? (real estate agents will do twice the work to sell the house for 3%)

Compare our posts. Which is more factually based? Skip the hype and go back to housing bubble commentary…

Done.

[Bubblesitter]

Carlsbad dude,
Why are you defending the insurance industry so much? You aren’t an insurance agent are you?

Selling “peace of mind” is great, but only if you can deliver.

The Bloomberg article was not mentioning some second rate, 3rd tier insurance companies, but big industry heavyweights with sizable market share, Allstate, State farm, etc. They are systematically trying to minimize payouts. They are using every technique to achieve this goal. This happened with the Cedar fires, Katrina and now it will happen with the great 2007 San Diego fires.

You are either an insurance indusry hack or very naive.

Bubblesitter

[Bubblesitter]

Carlsbad dude,
Why are you defending the insurance industry so much? You aren’t an insurance agent are you?

Selling “peace of mind” is great, but only if you can deliver.

The Bloomberg article was not mentioning some second rate, 3rd tier insurance companies, but big industry heavyweights with sizable market share, Allstate, State farm, etc. They are systematically trying to minimize payouts. They are using every technique to achieve this goal. This happened with the Cedar fires, Katrina and now it will happen with the great 2007 San Diego fires.

You are either an insurance indusry hack or very naive.

Bubblesitter

[CarlsbadMtnBiker]

Raybyrnes … I agree with you 100%. Thanks for providing balance to this.

Bubbleguy, you are clueless here and stirring the pot with much too much pessimism as usual. Your link provided insight to the worst side of the insurance industry that any major industry has on the record, if you spend the time to research in order to provide a biased report. By and large, as the CA DOI Commissioner Steve Poizner stated himself, only 10-15% of the carriers have negative trends in their claims practices worthy of his office looking into.

A least a part of the problem in 2003 (Cedar Fire in San Diego) rested on the dramatic increase in construction costs and the consumer for not questioning coverage levels for fear of having to pay additional premium.

On your comments regarding underwriting, the actual score driven database is C.L.U.E.® (Comprehensive Loss Underwriting Exchange) report (yes, this is owned by choicepoint) and this remains but only one aspect of risk evaluation and not always entirely accurate. It would be difficult to find anyone that was non-renewed for a single wildfire loss event.

Additionally, carriers cannot simply raise rates without first going through a lengthy rate increase filing with the CA DOI that is scrutinized at many levels.

[CarlsbadMtnBiker]

Raybyrnes … I agree with you 100%. Thanks for providing balance to this.

Bubbleguy, you are clueless here and stirring the pot with much too much pessimism as usual. Your link provided insight to the worst side of the insurance industry that any major industry has on the record, if you spend the time to research in order to provide a biased report. By and large, as the CA DOI Commissioner Steve Poizner stated himself, only 10-15% of the carriers have negative trends in their claims practices worthy of his office looking into.

A least a part of the problem in 2003 (Cedar Fire in San Diego) rested on the dramatic increase in construction costs and the consumer for not questioning coverage levels for fear of having to pay additional premium.

On your comments regarding underwriting, the actual score driven database is C.L.U.E.® (Comprehensive Loss Underwriting Exchange) report (yes, this is owned by choicepoint) and this remains but only one aspect of risk evaluation and not always entirely accurate. It would be difficult to find anyone that was non-renewed for a single wildfire loss event.

Additionally, carriers cannot simply raise rates without first going through a lengthy rate increase filing with the CA DOI that is scrutinized at many levels.

[Raybyrnes]

Funny about scores. Insurers use them differently. Some insurers attach the score to the property. Others will attach it to the owner. It is a good question to aske when shopping for insurnace. especaially if you have put in a claim or if you want to find out if the previous occupant put in a claim on the property you are buying.

And no I am not naive about insurance. In fact I am very knowledgeable on this area. I also know that insurance is a promise that is sold. You don’t go building and retaining customers by not paying claims.

Additionally, people don’t buy newspapers when it says thousand of claims paid successfully. They sell when the Front cover has an orphan child with his puppy in his lap and a woman stating they are homeless becaue of the insurance company. Whay they leave out is the fact that they did not pay their premium for the last 3 years.

For a better idea of good insurance companies and how they rate I suggest using AM BEst, Consumer Reports, and JD powers. Might be able to get a nbetter idea of how well a company deals with crisis.

[Raybyrnes]

Funny about scores. Insurers use them differently. Some insurers attach the score to the property. Others will attach it to the owner. It is a good question to aske when shopping for insurnace. especaially if you have put in a claim or if you want to find out if the previous occupant put in a claim on the property you are buying.

And no I am not naive about insurance. In fact I am very knowledgeable on this area. I also know that insurance is a promise that is sold. You don’t go building and retaining customers by not paying claims.

Additionally, people don’t buy newspapers when it says thousand of claims paid successfully. They sell when the Front cover has an orphan child with his puppy in his lap and a woman stating they are homeless becaue of the insurance company. Whay they leave out is the fact that they did not pay their premium for the last 3 years.

For a better idea of good insurance companies and how they rate I suggest using AM BEst, Consumer Reports, and JD powers. Might be able to get a nbetter idea of how well a company deals with crisis.

[Bubblesitter]

The personal property claims are generally not the issue, these are small peanuts compared to the structure. CC receipts are certainly a good idea along with video taping of valuables.

IT IS THE PAYOUTS FOR THE STRUCTURES THAT WILL BE THE ISSUE.

I hope you don’t have a naive trust of the insurance companies.

Take some time and read the bloomberg article at the top of this thread.

By the way, filing a claim will impact your Choicepoint insurance score. Yes, this is score analogous to a FICO score that scores your insurance risk rather than credit risk.

In the past, I’ve always maxed out my Homeowners insurance deductible allowable under lender guidelines. Never file any claim unless it is catastrophic. One claim for stolen golf clubs will likely raise your Choicepoint score and result in higher rates or may result in cancellation of your policy at renewal. You may end up paying for those stolen clubs many times over. Catastrophic claims also result in an increase in your Choicepoint insurance score.

Bubblesitter

[Bubblesitter]

The personal property claims are generally not the issue, these are small peanuts compared to the structure. CC receipts are certainly a good idea along with video taping of valuables.

IT IS THE PAYOUTS FOR THE STRUCTURES THAT WILL BE THE ISSUE.

I hope you don’t have a naive trust of the insurance companies.

Take some time and read the bloomberg article at the top of this thread.

By the way, filing a claim will impact your Choicepoint insurance score. Yes, this is score analogous to a FICO score that scores your insurance risk rather than credit risk.

In the past, I’ve always maxed out my Homeowners insurance deductible allowable under lender guidelines. Never file any claim unless it is catastrophic. One claim for stolen golf clubs will likely raise your Choicepoint score and result in higher rates or may result in cancellation of your policy at renewal. You may end up paying for those stolen clubs many times over. Catastrophic claims also result in an increase in your Choicepoint insurance score.

Bubblesitter

[Raybyrnes]

You are totally off on your assumptions about the insurance industry. The primary job of an adjuster is to close to file. They do not want to spend hours hemming and hawing over minor bullshit. Show them a reciept and they are going to pay. Use reasonable estimates and they are going to pay.
Start claiming that as a landscaper you have 10 Armani suits in your closet and they are going to red flag and say show me some reciepts or credit cards. The same criteria holds true for your taxes. You want want the write off, go ahead and take it. We ask for recipts, you better have them or yuo face penalties.

The problesm that many older folks will run into is that they have old policies that do not have an inflation adjustment on them. This means that they become underinsured over time. It also means that they were not paying sufficient premiums for the coverage in this type of incident.

I would argue that this is one of the very reasons I choose to buy everything on credit card. I have a paper trail for all of my purchases. Additionally a digital camera or a camcorder is can be used to take pictures of your place. It take s less than an hour to do this and you can put this on a memory chip and hand it to your agent. Again insurance companies just want to keep the file moving forward.

[Raybyrnes]

You are totally off on your assumptions about the insurance industry. The primary job of an adjuster is to close to file. They do not want to spend hours hemming and hawing over minor bullshit. Show them a reciept and they are going to pay. Use reasonable estimates and they are going to pay.
Start claiming that as a landscaper you have 10 Armani suits in your closet and they are going to red flag and say show me some reciepts or credit cards. The same criteria holds true for your taxes. You want want the write off, go ahead and take it. We ask for recipts, you better have them or yuo face penalties.

The problesm that many older folks will run into is that they have old policies that do not have an inflation adjustment on them. This means that they become underinsured over time. It also means that they were not paying sufficient premiums for the coverage in this type of incident.

I would argue that this is one of the very reasons I choose to buy everything on credit card. I have a paper trail for all of my purchases. Additionally a digital camera or a camcorder is can be used to take pictures of your place. It take s less than an hour to do this and you can put this on a memory chip and hand it to your agent. Again insurance companies just want to keep the file moving forward.

[Bubblesitter]

Does anybody know any good Consumer-focused insurance web sites where fire victims should do?

Insurance commissioner has some good info.

http://www.insurance.ca.gov/

I would be most worried about the retired widow who just lost her paid-off house. The insurance claims estimator/adjuster will end up ripping these folks off with low-ball offers.

Does anybody know of any plans by any of consumer-friendly organization to inform these people?

The insurance companies number 1 goal now is to minimize payouts. They have very honed techniques to do this. See top of this thread for link on some of these techniques. Sort of disgusting. Any you folks in the insurance industry that can comment anonymously? Do the right thing!

Bubblesitter

[Bubblesitter]

Does anybody know any good Consumer-focused insurance web sites where fire victims should do?

Insurance commissioner has some good info.

http://www.insurance.ca.gov/

I would be most worried about the retired widow who just lost her paid-off house. The insurance claims estimator/adjuster will end up ripping these folks off with low-ball offers.

Does anybody know of any plans by any of consumer-friendly organization to inform these people?

The insurance companies number 1 goal now is to minimize payouts. They have very honed techniques to do this. See top of this thread for link on some of these techniques. Sort of disgusting. Any you folks in the insurance industry that can comment anonymously? Do the right thing!

Bubblesitter

[CarlsbadMtnBiker]

“Are you sure it’s required by law and not by contract between the parties? If the law requires it, wouldn’t all policies have such clause?”

I believe all policies do have a similar clause. There is case law in CA on this dealing with basic ownership interest. The lenders sued to protect their interest. No time to research but feel free.

[CarlsbadMtnBiker]

“Are you sure it’s required by law and not by contract between the parties? If the law requires it, wouldn’t all policies have such clause?”

I believe all policies do have a similar clause. There is case law in CA on this dealing with basic ownership interest. The lenders sued to protect their interest. No time to research but feel free.

[patientlywaiting]

1. Most HO policies carry a mortgagee clause requiring them to name the lender as a loss payee on the check. This is required by law and the lender determines how it will endorse and/or disperse funds to ensure their investment is restored.

Are you sure it's required by law and not by contract between the parties?  If the law requires it, wouldn't ALL policies have such clause? 

[patientlywaiting]

1. Most HO policies carry a mortgagee clause requiring them to name the lender as a loss payee on the check. This is required by law and the lender determines how it will endorse and/or disperse funds to ensure their investment is restored.

Are you sure it's required by law and not by contract between the parties?  If the law requires it, wouldn't ALL policies have such clause? 

[CarlsbadMtnBiker]

1. Most HO policies carry a mortgagee clause requiring them to name the lender as a loss payee on the check. This is required by law and the lender determines how it will endorse and/or disperse funds to ensure their investment is restored.

2. Many carriers offer extended replacement cost coverage by endorsement than extends Coverage A (your primary building coverage) up to 175% with a FEMA trigger for major disaster – I believe that trigger has already been pulled by President Bush. Otherwise the typical extended replacement coverage is 135% of Coverage A.

3. Additionally, by endorsement, many policies offer inflation protection which prorates all your policy limits up each month until your next renewal.

4. For a home destroyed by fire, the Actual Cash Value is determined by market value (RE Appraisal minus the value of the land) or a rebuild contractors estimate less depreciation, which ever is greater.

5. Depreciation (for all losses incl minor repairs) can only be taken on building materials subject to normal repair or replacement during the useful life of the home e.g cannot depreciate the framing, rough plumbing, etc.)

6. You can rebuild elsewhere are still be entitled to Replacement Cost Coverage.

7. Most policies offer coverage for hotel, additional expense for up to 2 weeks for a civil authority action (e.g. evacuation) many times without taking a deductible.

8. Additional Living Expense coverage has been extended on most policies to 24 months and also gives you the option of electing a Fair Rental Value Option (FRV) that allows you to take payment based on the fair rental market value of your home without the need to submit any documentation/receipts. Recommended if you are staying with family or friends vs. when you are incurring a temp rental expense or hotel.

9. Don’t hire the services of a Public Adjuster (PA) who will take 8-15% of your claim dollars doing the same thing your own assigned adjuster does for free. Give your insurance company a chance first and hire a PA when and if you have issues with your insurance company.

10. Stick with local contractors with long standing reputations for the rebuild of your home.

11. Most polices also provide an additional 5% above and beyond the Coverage A (building) for debris removal, 10% for building code upgrade requirements and 5% for trees, shrubs and plants. Ask your insurance company to provide all of these limits in writing with proration for inflation (if applicable.) Also request a certified copy of your policy on day 1. These requests alone will serve to convey the message that you intend to claim all benefits available to you.

For Example, a policy with $500K in Coverage A would actually have $875K after the applying the extented replacement cost coverage now triggered by FEMA. Additional to this would be another $43,750.00 for debris removal, $87,500.00 for code upgrades, and $43,750 for trees, shrubs and plants.

Finally, most policies give a straight 10% for appurtenant structures (detached garages, sheds, barns, fencing, walls, etc.) In this example, it would total $50K.

Total available coverage excluding personal property and additional living expense = $1,100,000.00

Stay safe out there !! ….

-CMB

[CarlsbadMtnBiker]

1. Most HO policies carry a mortgagee clause requiring them to name the lender as a loss payee on the check. This is required by law and the lender determines how it will endorse and/or disperse funds to ensure their investment is restored.

2. Many carriers offer extended replacement cost coverage by endorsement than extends Coverage A (your primary building coverage) up to 175% with a FEMA trigger for major disaster – I believe that trigger has already been pulled by President Bush. Otherwise the typical extended replacement coverage is 135% of Coverage A.

3. Additionally, by endorsement, many policies offer inflation protection which prorates all your policy limits up each month until your next renewal.

4. For a home destroyed by fire, the Actual Cash Value is determined by market value (RE Appraisal minus the value of the land) or a rebuild contractors estimate less depreciation, which ever is greater.

5. Depreciation (for all losses incl minor repairs) can only be taken on building materials subject to normal repair or replacement during the useful life of the home e.g cannot depreciate the framing, rough plumbing, etc.)

6. You can rebuild elsewhere are still be entitled to Replacement Cost Coverage.

7. Most policies offer coverage for hotel, additional expense for up to 2 weeks for a civil authority action (e.g. evacuation) many times without taking a deductible.

8. Additional Living Expense coverage has been extended on most policies to 24 months and also gives you the option of electing a Fair Rental Value Option (FRV) that allows you to take payment based on the fair rental market value of your home without the need to submit any documentation/receipts. Recommended if you are staying with family or friends vs. when you are incurring a temp rental expense or hotel.

9. Don’t hire the services of a Public Adjuster (PA) who will take 8-15% of your claim dollars doing the same thing your own assigned adjuster does for free. Give your insurance company a chance first and hire a PA when and if you have issues with your insurance company.

10. Stick with local contractors with long standing reputations for the rebuild of your home.

11. Most polices also provide an additional 5% above and beyond the Coverage A (building) for debris removal, 10% for building code upgrade requirements and 5% for trees, shrubs and plants. Ask your insurance company to provide all of these limits in writing with proration for inflation (if applicable.) Also request a certified copy of your policy on day 1. These requests alone will serve to convey the message that you intend to claim all benefits available to you.

For Example, a policy with $500K in Coverage A would actually have $875K after the applying the extented replacement cost coverage now triggered by FEMA. Additional to this would be another $43,750.00 for debris removal, $87,500.00 for code upgrades, and $43,750 for trees, shrubs and plants.

Finally, most policies give a straight 10% for appurtenant structures (detached garages, sheds, barns, fencing, walls, etc.) In this example, it would total $50K.

Total available coverage excluding personal property and additional living expense = $1,100,000.00

Stay safe out there !! ….

-CMB

[ucodegen]

MAKE SURE YOU ARE ADEQUATELY COVERED. REVIEW YOUR POLICIES. YOU ARE YOUR OWN BEST ADVOCATE.

If you have a safety deposit box, I would also recommend you doing the following:
Take general digital pictures of inside and outside the house, inside and outside of any cars you have(clean the cars ahead of time – include odometer in one picture), tools or other things of value.. Also scan any important documents that you need to have with you, any passwords etc that you have written down on paper (with all the passwords these days, I know that some people have them written down.. if the browser manages them for you, you will need to locate where the archived – hopefully encrypted password file that the browser uses is located) and copy all of that in some organized fashion onto a thumb drive(USB memory stick). Then place the thumb drive in the safety deposit box.

If you are not afraid of a little more tech.. look up TrueCrypt.. you can set up another thumb drive to be an encrypted file system (256bit AES which is considerably stronger than the old mil triple DES) and carry it with you. If you lose it.. no big deal. The password on this one is the one you would have to remember though…

[ucodegen]

MAKE SURE YOU ARE ADEQUATELY COVERED. REVIEW YOUR POLICIES. YOU ARE YOUR OWN BEST ADVOCATE.

If you have a safety deposit box, I would also recommend you doing the following:
Take general digital pictures of inside and outside the house, inside and outside of any cars you have(clean the cars ahead of time – include odometer in one picture), tools or other things of value.. Also scan any important documents that you need to have with you, any passwords etc that you have written down on paper (with all the passwords these days, I know that some people have them written down.. if the browser manages them for you, you will need to locate where the archived – hopefully encrypted password file that the browser uses is located) and copy all of that in some organized fashion onto a thumb drive(USB memory stick). Then place the thumb drive in the safety deposit box.

If you are not afraid of a little more tech.. look up TrueCrypt.. you can set up another thumb drive to be an encrypted file system (256bit AES which is considerably stronger than the old mil triple DES) and carry it with you. If you lose it.. no big deal. The password on this one is the one you would have to remember though…

[ucodegen]

MAKE SURE YOU ARE ADEQUATELY COVERED. REVIEW YOUR POLICIES. YOU ARE YOUR OWN BEST ADVOCATE.

If you have a safety deposit box, I would also recommend you doing the following:
Take general digital pictures of inside and outside the house, inside and outside of any cars you have(clean the cars ahead of time – include odometer in one picture), tools or other things of value.. Also scan any important documents that you need to have with you, any passwords etc that you have written down on paper (with all the passwords these days, I know that some people have them written down.. if the browser manages them for you, you will need to locate where the archived – hopefully encrypted password file that the browser uses is located) and copy all of that in some organized fashion onto a thumb drive(USB memory stick). Then place the thumb drive in the safety deposit box.

If you are not afraid of a little more tech.. look up TrueCrypt.. you can set up another thumb drive to be an encrypted file system (256bit AES which is considerably stronger than the old mil triple DES) and carry it with you. If you lose it.. no big deal. The password on this one is the one you would have to remember though…

[ucodegen]

MAKE SURE YOU ARE ADEQUATELY COVERED. REVIEW YOUR POLICIES. YOU ARE YOUR OWN BEST ADVOCATE.

If you have a safety deposit box, I would also recommend you doing the following:
Take general digital pictures of inside and outside the house, inside and outside of any cars you have(clean the cars ahead of time – include odometer in one picture), tools or other things of value.. Also scan any important documents that you need to have with you, any passwords etc that you have written down on paper (with all the passwords these days, I know that some people have them written down.. if the browser manages them for you, you will need to locate where the archived – hopefully encrypted password file that the browser uses is located) and copy all of that in some organized fashion onto a thumb drive(USB memory stick). Then place the thumb drive in the safety deposit box.

If you are not afraid of a little more tech.. look up TrueCrypt.. you can set up another thumb drive to be an encrypted file system (256bit AES which is considerably stronger than the old mil triple DES) and carry it with you. If you lose it.. no big deal. The password on this one is the one you would have to remember though…

[ucodegen]

MAKE SURE YOU ARE ADEQUATELY COVERED. REVIEW YOUR POLICIES. YOU ARE YOUR OWN BEST ADVOCATE.

If you have a safety deposit box, I would also recommend you doing the following:
Take general digital pictures of inside and outside the house, inside and outside of any cars you have(clean the cars ahead of time – include odometer in one picture), tools or other things of value.. Also scan any important documents that you need to have with you, any passwords etc that you have written down on paper (with all the passwords these days, I know that some people have them written down.. if the browser manages them for you, you will need to locate where the archived – hopefully encrypted password file that the browser uses is located) and copy all of that in some organized fashion onto a thumb drive(USB memory stick). Then place the thumb drive in the safety deposit box.

If you are not afraid of a little more tech.. look up TrueCrypt.. you can set up another thumb drive to be an encrypted file system (256bit AES which is considerably stronger than the old mil triple DES) and carry it with you. If you lose it.. no big deal. The password on this one is the one you would have to remember though…

[Author]

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