huge topic:Americans keep getting fatter

[CA renter]

[quote=sdrealtor]I never said anything about being enchanted with our healthcare system. When you are sick and have to access any health care system it sucks to be in that position no matter where you are.

BTW there are no statisitcs that prove anything of the sort you claimed. We just spent the last week talking about how unhealthy a lifestyle we live in the US. You cant compare the statistics for countries where residents are more physically active and eat a diet of fresh fish, fruit, veggies and rice with one that is a fast food nation of couch potatoes. Doctors and hospitals cant make us live healthier lifestyles.[/quote]

Maybe that’s because we don’t approach health from a holistic perspective, as the Europeans are more prone to do. That holistic approach tends to exist in a sytem where health — rather than profits — is the priority of the healthcare system.

After all, with a **for-profit** healthcare system, a sick population (with chronic conditions that need to be “treated” for life, no less) is precisely what they want.

[jpinpb]

[quote=CA renter]I’ve seen far too many friends and relatives get misdiagnosed here in the U.S. A few times, the correct diagnosis was far too late, and they died. I’ve also had to wait for hours just to see our PCP, and that was **with an appointment.** I’ve also seen the old, “the doctor can see you in two to three months,” when dealing with a serious issue.

sdr,

While our BEST hospitals and BEST doctors might indeed be some of the best in the world, the Average Joe does not generally have access to those doctors or hospitals. I’d venture to guess that the average HMO member in the U.S. deals with a healthcare sytem that is no better — and probably far worse — than a sociaized healthcare system in a developed part of the world (Germany, Austria, Sweden, etc.).

Again, we all have different values and perceptions based on our own experiences and knowledge, but many of us are not nearly so enchanted with our healthcare system, no matter how much the U.S. healthcare/pharma industries try to brainwash us into thinking we have the “best” care in the world. On average, we don’t, and the statistics prove it.[/quote]

I agree w/what you say CAR. I’ve waited months to see specialists on many different occasions. I’ve been misdiagnosed numerous times, while the doctors tried to peddle their drugs on me. Sometimes you have to be as educated as a doctor to combat them.

I’ll never forget one instance the doctors tried to tell me I had an ulcer and I kept telling them it wasn’t and ulcer and they kept pushing omeprazole. I refused. I finally told them to do an endoscopy to prove I had an ulcer, which they did. Then they said, “Oh, you don’t have an ulcer.”

So many people can’t afford health insurance and get the basic emergency care. If you are lucky enough, you can afford HMO insurance, which still isn’t cheap. You have to jump through hoops to get proper care, IMO. Waiting for appointments, referrals, etc. Kaiser was the worst. It is like a factory. Extremely frustrating.

In that respect, yes. It is similar to, say, Italy, as far was waiting to see a doctor. Except there, they’d probably try to figure out what’s wrong w/you BEFORE prescribing drugs.

[jpinpb]

[quote=CA renter]I’ve seen far too many friends and relatives get misdiagnosed here in the U.S. A few times, the correct diagnosis was far too late, and they died. I’ve also had to wait for hours just to see our PCP, and that was **with an appointment.** I’ve also seen the old, “the doctor can see you in two to three months,” when dealing with a serious issue.

sdr,

While our BEST hospitals and BEST doctors might indeed be some of the best in the world, the Average Joe does not generally have access to those doctors or hospitals. I’d venture to guess that the average HMO member in the U.S. deals with a healthcare sytem that is no better — and probably far worse — than a sociaized healthcare system in a developed part of the world (Germany, Austria, Sweden, etc.).

Again, we all have different values and perceptions based on our own experiences and knowledge, but many of us are not nearly so enchanted with our healthcare system, no matter how much the U.S. healthcare/pharma industries try to brainwash us into thinking we have the “best” care in the world. On average, we don’t, and the statistics prove it.[/quote]

I agree w/what you say CAR. I’ve waited months to see specialists on many different occasions. I’ve been misdiagnosed numerous times, while the doctors tried to peddle their drugs on me. Sometimes you have to be as educated as a doctor to combat them.

I’ll never forget one instance the doctors tried to tell me I had an ulcer and I kept telling them it wasn’t and ulcer and they kept pushing omeprazole. I refused. I finally told them to do an endoscopy to prove I had an ulcer, which they did. Then they said, “Oh, you don’t have an ulcer.”

So many people can’t afford health insurance and get the basic emergency care. If you are lucky enough, you can afford HMO insurance, which still isn’t cheap. You have to jump through hoops to get proper care, IMO. Waiting for appointments, referrals, etc. Kaiser was the worst. It is like a factory. Extremely frustrating.

In that respect, yes. It is similar to, say, Italy, as far was waiting to see a doctor. Except there, they’d probably try to figure out what’s wrong w/you BEFORE prescribing drugs.

[jpinpb]

[quote=CA renter]I’ve seen far too many friends and relatives get misdiagnosed here in the U.S. A few times, the correct diagnosis was far too late, and they died. I’ve also had to wait for hours just to see our PCP, and that was **with an appointment.** I’ve also seen the old, “the doctor can see you in two to three months,” when dealing with a serious issue.

sdr,

While our BEST hospitals and BEST doctors might indeed be some of the best in the world, the Average Joe does not generally have access to those doctors or hospitals. I’d venture to guess that the average HMO member in the U.S. deals with a healthcare sytem that is no better — and probably far worse — than a sociaized healthcare system in a developed part of the world (Germany, Austria, Sweden, etc.).

Again, we all have different values and perceptions based on our own experiences and knowledge, but many of us are not nearly so enchanted with our healthcare system, no matter how much the U.S. healthcare/pharma industries try to brainwash us into thinking we have the “best” care in the world. On average, we don’t, and the statistics prove it.[/quote]

I agree w/what you say CAR. I’ve waited months to see specialists on many different occasions. I’ve been misdiagnosed numerous times, while the doctors tried to peddle their drugs on me. Sometimes you have to be as educated as a doctor to combat them.

I’ll never forget one instance the doctors tried to tell me I had an ulcer and I kept telling them it wasn’t and ulcer and they kept pushing omeprazole. I refused. I finally told them to do an endoscopy to prove I had an ulcer, which they did. Then they said, “Oh, you don’t have an ulcer.”

So many people can’t afford health insurance and get the basic emergency care. If you are lucky enough, you can afford HMO insurance, which still isn’t cheap. You have to jump through hoops to get proper care, IMO. Waiting for appointments, referrals, etc. Kaiser was the worst. It is like a factory. Extremely frustrating.

In that respect, yes. It is similar to, say, Italy, as far was waiting to see a doctor. Except there, they’d probably try to figure out what’s wrong w/you BEFORE prescribing drugs.

[jpinpb]

[quote=CA renter]I’ve seen far too many friends and relatives get misdiagnosed here in the U.S. A few times, the correct diagnosis was far too late, and they died. I’ve also had to wait for hours just to see our PCP, and that was **with an appointment.** I’ve also seen the old, “the doctor can see you in two to three months,” when dealing with a serious issue.

sdr,

While our BEST hospitals and BEST doctors might indeed be some of the best in the world, the Average Joe does not generally have access to those doctors or hospitals. I’d venture to guess that the average HMO member in the U.S. deals with a healthcare sytem that is no better — and probably far worse — than a sociaized healthcare system in a developed part of the world (Germany, Austria, Sweden, etc.).

Again, we all have different values and perceptions based on our own experiences and knowledge, but many of us are not nearly so enchanted with our healthcare system, no matter how much the U.S. healthcare/pharma industries try to brainwash us into thinking we have the “best” care in the world. On average, we don’t, and the statistics prove it.[/quote]

I agree w/what you say CAR. I’ve waited months to see specialists on many different occasions. I’ve been misdiagnosed numerous times, while the doctors tried to peddle their drugs on me. Sometimes you have to be as educated as a doctor to combat them.

I’ll never forget one instance the doctors tried to tell me I had an ulcer and I kept telling them it wasn’t and ulcer and they kept pushing omeprazole. I refused. I finally told them to do an endoscopy to prove I had an ulcer, which they did. Then they said, “Oh, you don’t have an ulcer.”

So many people can’t afford health insurance and get the basic emergency care. If you are lucky enough, you can afford HMO insurance, which still isn’t cheap. You have to jump through hoops to get proper care, IMO. Waiting for appointments, referrals, etc. Kaiser was the worst. It is like a factory. Extremely frustrating.

In that respect, yes. It is similar to, say, Italy, as far was waiting to see a doctor. Except there, they’d probably try to figure out what’s wrong w/you BEFORE prescribing drugs.

[jpinpb]

[quote=CA renter]I’ve seen far too many friends and relatives get misdiagnosed here in the U.S. A few times, the correct diagnosis was far too late, and they died. I’ve also had to wait for hours just to see our PCP, and that was **with an appointment.** I’ve also seen the old, “the doctor can see you in two to three months,” when dealing with a serious issue.

sdr,

While our BEST hospitals and BEST doctors might indeed be some of the best in the world, the Average Joe does not generally have access to those doctors or hospitals. I’d venture to guess that the average HMO member in the U.S. deals with a healthcare sytem that is no better — and probably far worse — than a sociaized healthcare system in a developed part of the world (Germany, Austria, Sweden, etc.).

Again, we all have different values and perceptions based on our own experiences and knowledge, but many of us are not nearly so enchanted with our healthcare system, no matter how much the U.S. healthcare/pharma industries try to brainwash us into thinking we have the “best” care in the world. On average, we don’t, and the statistics prove it.[/quote]

I agree w/what you say CAR. I’ve waited months to see specialists on many different occasions. I’ve been misdiagnosed numerous times, while the doctors tried to peddle their drugs on me. Sometimes you have to be as educated as a doctor to combat them.

I’ll never forget one instance the doctors tried to tell me I had an ulcer and I kept telling them it wasn’t and ulcer and they kept pushing omeprazole. I refused. I finally told them to do an endoscopy to prove I had an ulcer, which they did. Then they said, “Oh, you don’t have an ulcer.”

So many people can’t afford health insurance and get the basic emergency care. If you are lucky enough, you can afford HMO insurance, which still isn’t cheap. You have to jump through hoops to get proper care, IMO. Waiting for appointments, referrals, etc. Kaiser was the worst. It is like a factory. Extremely frustrating.

In that respect, yes. It is similar to, say, Italy, as far was waiting to see a doctor. Except there, they’d probably try to figure out what’s wrong w/you BEFORE prescribing drugs.

[jpinpb]

[quote=CA renter]Maybe that’s because we don’t approach health from a holistic perspective, as the Europeans are more prone to do. That holistic approach tends to exist in a sytem where health — rather than profits — is the priority of the healthcare system.

After all, with a **for-profit** healthcare system, a sick population (with chronic conditions that need to be “treated” for life, no less) is precisely what they want.[/quote]

X2. But then we have our new national healthcare, which is insurance based. And this is why I have an issue w/it. They are in business solely to make money.

[jpinpb]

[quote=CA renter]Maybe that’s because we don’t approach health from a holistic perspective, as the Europeans are more prone to do. That holistic approach tends to exist in a sytem where health — rather than profits — is the priority of the healthcare system.

After all, with a **for-profit** healthcare system, a sick population (with chronic conditions that need to be “treated” for life, no less) is precisely what they want.[/quote]

X2. But then we have our new national healthcare, which is insurance based. And this is why I have an issue w/it. They are in business solely to make money.

[jpinpb]

[quote=CA renter]Maybe that’s because we don’t approach health from a holistic perspective, as the Europeans are more prone to do. That holistic approach tends to exist in a sytem where health — rather than profits — is the priority of the healthcare system.

After all, with a **for-profit** healthcare system, a sick population (with chronic conditions that need to be “treated” for life, no less) is precisely what they want.[/quote]

X2. But then we have our new national healthcare, which is insurance based. And this is why I have an issue w/it. They are in business solely to make money.

[jpinpb]

[quote=CA renter]Maybe that’s because we don’t approach health from a holistic perspective, as the Europeans are more prone to do. That holistic approach tends to exist in a sytem where health — rather than profits — is the priority of the healthcare system.

After all, with a **for-profit** healthcare system, a sick population (with chronic conditions that need to be “treated” for life, no less) is precisely what they want.[/quote]

X2. But then we have our new national healthcare, which is insurance based. And this is why I have an issue w/it. They are in business solely to make money.

[jpinpb]

[quote=CA renter]Maybe that’s because we don’t approach health from a holistic perspective, as the Europeans are more prone to do. That holistic approach tends to exist in a sytem where health — rather than profits — is the priority of the healthcare system.

After all, with a **for-profit** healthcare system, a sick population (with chronic conditions that need to be “treated” for life, no less) is precisely what they want.[/quote]

X2. But then we have our new national healthcare, which is insurance based. And this is why I have an issue w/it. They are in business solely to make money.

[ocrenter]

Here’s the top 10 health care plans in America based on US News for Medicare patients.

# 1 Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of Colorado (HMO) Colorado
# 2 Fallon Community Health Plan (HMO) MA
# 3 Geisinger Health Plan (HMO) PA
# 4 Tufts Associated Health Maintenance Organization (HMO) MA
# 5 Capital Health Plan (HMO), FL
# 6 MVP Health Care (Rochester Area) (HMO)
# 7 Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of the Northwest (HMO) Oregon, Washington
# 8 Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of Southern California (HMO)
# 9 Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of the Northwest (Demonstation Project)
# 10 Capital District Physicians’ Health Plan (HMO) New York

Here’s the ranking for commercial plans:

# 1 Harvard Pilgrim Health Care (HMO/POS)
Maine, Massachusetts
# 2 Harvard Pilgrim Health Care of New England (HMO/POS)
New Hampshire
# 3 Tufts Associated Health Maintenance Organization (HMO/POS)
Massachusetts, Rhode Island
# 4 Grand Valley Health Plan (HMO)
Michigan
# 5 Capital Health Plan (HMO)
Florida
# 6 Geisinger Health Plan (HMO/POS)
Pennsylvania
# 7 Fallon Community Health Plan (HMO/POS)
Massachusetts
# 8 Health New England (HMO/POS)
Massachusetts
# 9 CIGNA HealthCare of New Hampshire (HMO/POS)
New Hampshire
# 10 Group Health Cooperative of South Central Wisconsin (HMO)

Here’s the top 10 plans in California:
Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of NorCal (HMO)
Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of SoCal (HMO)
Western Health Advantage (HMO)
Health Net of California (HMO/POS)
PacifiCare of California (HMO/POS)
Blue Shield of California (HMO/POS)
Anthem Blue Cross (HMO/POS)
CIGNA HealthCare of California (HMO/POS)
Aetna Health of California (HMO/POS)
Ventura County Health Care Plan (HMO)

*POS stans for point of service, or your classic PPO plans.

One reason why people do not like HMO is chances are the patient is not going to get what they think they want (and a lot of times they think they want something because of direct marketing by Big Pharma). But sometimes, actually most of the time, that is for the benefit of the patient. Afterall, if patients know best, then we don’t really need doctors.

[ocrenter]

Here’s the top 10 health care plans in America based on US News for Medicare patients.

# 1 Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of Colorado (HMO) Colorado
# 2 Fallon Community Health Plan (HMO) MA
# 3 Geisinger Health Plan (HMO) PA
# 4 Tufts Associated Health Maintenance Organization (HMO) MA
# 5 Capital Health Plan (HMO), FL
# 6 MVP Health Care (Rochester Area) (HMO)
# 7 Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of the Northwest (HMO) Oregon, Washington
# 8 Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of Southern California (HMO)
# 9 Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of the Northwest (Demonstation Project)
# 10 Capital District Physicians’ Health Plan (HMO) New York

Here’s the ranking for commercial plans:

# 1 Harvard Pilgrim Health Care (HMO/POS)
Maine, Massachusetts
# 2 Harvard Pilgrim Health Care of New England (HMO/POS)
New Hampshire
# 3 Tufts Associated Health Maintenance Organization (HMO/POS)
Massachusetts, Rhode Island
# 4 Grand Valley Health Plan (HMO)
Michigan
# 5 Capital Health Plan (HMO)
Florida
# 6 Geisinger Health Plan (HMO/POS)
Pennsylvania
# 7 Fallon Community Health Plan (HMO/POS)
Massachusetts
# 8 Health New England (HMO/POS)
Massachusetts
# 9 CIGNA HealthCare of New Hampshire (HMO/POS)
New Hampshire
# 10 Group Health Cooperative of South Central Wisconsin (HMO)

Here’s the top 10 plans in California:
Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of NorCal (HMO)
Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of SoCal (HMO)
Western Health Advantage (HMO)
Health Net of California (HMO/POS)
PacifiCare of California (HMO/POS)
Blue Shield of California (HMO/POS)
Anthem Blue Cross (HMO/POS)
CIGNA HealthCare of California (HMO/POS)
Aetna Health of California (HMO/POS)
Ventura County Health Care Plan (HMO)

*POS stans for point of service, or your classic PPO plans.

One reason why people do not like HMO is chances are the patient is not going to get what they think they want (and a lot of times they think they want something because of direct marketing by Big Pharma). But sometimes, actually most of the time, that is for the benefit of the patient. Afterall, if patients know best, then we don’t really need doctors.

[ocrenter]

Here’s the top 10 health care plans in America based on US News for Medicare patients.

# 1 Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of Colorado (HMO) Colorado
# 2 Fallon Community Health Plan (HMO) MA
# 3 Geisinger Health Plan (HMO) PA
# 4 Tufts Associated Health Maintenance Organization (HMO) MA
# 5 Capital Health Plan (HMO), FL
# 6 MVP Health Care (Rochester Area) (HMO)
# 7 Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of the Northwest (HMO) Oregon, Washington
# 8 Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of Southern California (HMO)
# 9 Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of the Northwest (Demonstation Project)
# 10 Capital District Physicians’ Health Plan (HMO) New York

Here’s the ranking for commercial plans:

# 1 Harvard Pilgrim Health Care (HMO/POS)
Maine, Massachusetts
# 2 Harvard Pilgrim Health Care of New England (HMO/POS)
New Hampshire
# 3 Tufts Associated Health Maintenance Organization (HMO/POS)
Massachusetts, Rhode Island
# 4 Grand Valley Health Plan (HMO)
Michigan
# 5 Capital Health Plan (HMO)
Florida
# 6 Geisinger Health Plan (HMO/POS)
Pennsylvania
# 7 Fallon Community Health Plan (HMO/POS)
Massachusetts
# 8 Health New England (HMO/POS)
Massachusetts
# 9 CIGNA HealthCare of New Hampshire (HMO/POS)
New Hampshire
# 10 Group Health Cooperative of South Central Wisconsin (HMO)

Here’s the top 10 plans in California:
Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of NorCal (HMO)
Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of SoCal (HMO)
Western Health Advantage (HMO)
Health Net of California (HMO/POS)
PacifiCare of California (HMO/POS)
Blue Shield of California (HMO/POS)
Anthem Blue Cross (HMO/POS)
CIGNA HealthCare of California (HMO/POS)
Aetna Health of California (HMO/POS)
Ventura County Health Care Plan (HMO)

*POS stans for point of service, or your classic PPO plans.

One reason why people do not like HMO is chances are the patient is not going to get what they think they want (and a lot of times they think they want something because of direct marketing by Big Pharma). But sometimes, actually most of the time, that is for the benefit of the patient. Afterall, if patients know best, then we don’t really need doctors.

[ocrenter]

Here’s the top 10 health care plans in America based on US News for Medicare patients.

# 1 Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of Colorado (HMO) Colorado
# 2 Fallon Community Health Plan (HMO) MA
# 3 Geisinger Health Plan (HMO) PA
# 4 Tufts Associated Health Maintenance Organization (HMO) MA
# 5 Capital Health Plan (HMO), FL
# 6 MVP Health Care (Rochester Area) (HMO)
# 7 Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of the Northwest (HMO) Oregon, Washington
# 8 Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of Southern California (HMO)
# 9 Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of the Northwest (Demonstation Project)
# 10 Capital District Physicians’ Health Plan (HMO) New York

Here’s the ranking for commercial plans:

# 1 Harvard Pilgrim Health Care (HMO/POS)
Maine, Massachusetts
# 2 Harvard Pilgrim Health Care of New England (HMO/POS)
New Hampshire
# 3 Tufts Associated Health Maintenance Organization (HMO/POS)
Massachusetts, Rhode Island
# 4 Grand Valley Health Plan (HMO)
Michigan
# 5 Capital Health Plan (HMO)
Florida
# 6 Geisinger Health Plan (HMO/POS)
Pennsylvania
# 7 Fallon Community Health Plan (HMO/POS)
Massachusetts
# 8 Health New England (HMO/POS)
Massachusetts
# 9 CIGNA HealthCare of New Hampshire (HMO/POS)
New Hampshire
# 10 Group Health Cooperative of South Central Wisconsin (HMO)

Here’s the top 10 plans in California:
Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of NorCal (HMO)
Kaiser Foundation Health Plan of SoCal (HMO)
Western Health Advantage (HMO)
Health Net of California (HMO/POS)
PacifiCare of California (HMO/POS)
Blue Shield of California (HMO/POS)
Anthem Blue Cross (HMO/POS)
CIGNA HealthCare of California (HMO/POS)
Aetna Health of California (HMO/POS)
Ventura County Health Care Plan (HMO)

*POS stans for point of service, or your classic PPO plans.

One reason why people do not like HMO is chances are the patient is not going to get what they think they want (and a lot of times they think they want something because of direct marketing by Big Pharma). But sometimes, actually most of the time, that is for the benefit of the patient. Afterall, if patients know best, then we don’t really need doctors.

[Author]

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