How will the IT community handle the coming housing crash/recession?

[FormerOwner]

Regarding technical certifications: they are worthless by themselves. Same thing for the non-degree technical schools. There are so many smart people out there with 4 year Computer Science degrees that that’s what you’ve got to have in order to get a job. The exception MIGHT be if you are a self-taught genius and have some work that you can show to back it up and know someone who can put in a good word for you – I worked with people like that in the past. Ideally, in order to land your first job you should have all of the above – a 4 year CS degree plus demonstrable experience of completing a project or two, even if it’s just for fun or unpaid.

I know several people who blew $10,000 or so going to “technical schools” to become Microsoft certified (MCSE) and were never able to get decent jobs in the IT field and ended up doing something else.

Another thing: before getting too far along in school you need to figure out what kind of IT job you want to get:
*Programmer
*Database Administrator
*Network Administrator
*Security Specialist
*Systems Analyst
Also, you have to have an idea of which platforms/languages you are aiming at becoming an expert in. Companies want degreed smart professionals WITH expertise in the technologies they are using. Companies do not want to train newbies. That went away when the dot-com bubble burst. Once you land you’re first job, it gets easier from there.

The reason 4-year CS degrees are valued by employers is that you can’t really get any depth of understanding in a 6 month training program. It really does take a lot of study to gain the neceessary depth and breadth to be successful. Plus, the ability to graduate with a CS degree requires a certain amount of commitment and IQ so employers feel it eliminates a certain amount (but not all) of the fakers.

I was a SQL Server DBA until I got out of IT a few years ago. In 1999/2000, a contract DBA could make 200K year. Companies were going under left and right, but you could always find another job very quickly. In 2001/2002, it got to a point where new contracts were virtually non-existent. The only jobs were full-time positions paying 65K-75K/year and they expected you to work 60+ hours per week and be on call 24/7. That’s when I left the field and never went back. My degree was in something else and I fell back on that and sort of worked my way back up in salary.

[sddreaming]

Is there a good school in socal that I can attend or a good online school?

If you’re in San Diego, UCSD has a great Computer Science program. If you already have a BS and are going to pursue a Master’s, SDSU’s graduate program has lots of evening classes, making it easier to do while maintaining a day job. In LA, USC and UCLA both have excellent programs.

Why is the 9 moth cert program not going to work?

If you’re looking for a solid career path, you need a good foundation. Most software development companies will not hire programmers without a BS. Like any engineering discipline, you need a solid base. It’s not easy, but if you’re willing to stick to it and work hard it is rewarding.

Good luck!

[carlislematthew]

I’m in IT in the software engineering side, now in management. I don’t have any experience in the systems administration/networking side, so I won’t comment on that. My experience is that of a developer with about 10 years of experience, and I have managed, led and hired teams for about 5 of that.

During good times (like now), an intelligent, articulate developer can very easily get a job, regardless of 9 month certificate or 4 year degree. Experience, appropriate skills, and the ability to hit the ground running are more important. I’m hiring positions right now. Send me your resume! 🙂

However, during the bad times, you will NEED that degree and solid experience (not 4 months here, 3 months there). Most companies that *are* hiring will tighten their requirements and become dramatically more fussy. I’ve been there and that’s what happens. We would literally get 100 resumes a DAY for a position, back in 2003(ish). In order to screen that many resumes you have to be brutal. Not in the area? Stay away. No degree? Forget it. Need a Visa? Tough luck.

80% of the resumes I received back in 2003 when we were hiring were from people that got into software engineering in the last couple of years and only had a certificate. They were seen as chasing the money, not “real” developers, and sub-standard. Sounds harsh, but that’s how it was, and this is how it will be again when the next recession comes.

My advice? If you REALLY want to get into IT, wait. Save some money with your current job and get rid of that car payment. Wait until the recession, and then go back to school. Just as people are starting to hire again, you’ll be a fresh face (with intern experience hopefully) and you’ll get a job. Oh, and to stay in IT you HAVE to like it. Those that don’t like programming, will HATE it. It’s a love or hate thing.

Finally, there are more people employed today in IT than there were back at the height of the last bubble back in 1999/2000. Look at the statistics on the BLS if you don’t believe me. There was a significant dip, however, during the recent bad times. IMO, the future for IT is relatively bright but you need to figure out how to protect yourself.

[kewp]

Just a comment re: a CompSci education.

I’ll advice against it unless you love math and have an extremely solid work/study ethic. Especially if you go to UCSD, it is a *brutal* program. If I went back to school now full time I’m not sure I would be able to complete it, even with 10+ years experience under my belt.

Something to consider is to get one of the lighter weight degrees, or major is something you like (art, music, history) and get the compsci minor. Its better to finish with something than to not finish at all. Take advantage of the extra free time and work on some side projects.

[AK]

A word of warning: It ain’t easy to start a computer science master’s program if you don’t have an undergrad CS major or minor. I’d need to take 8-9 courses just to qualify for admissions to SDSU, 14-15 to qualify for UCSD.

Chico State has an online second B.S. program in CS, but it ain’t cheap. ($1600+ per class.)

Consider starting with a community college degree or certificate program. Or if you’re more into the technology management side of things, consider a management information systems degree.

[North County Native]

I didn’t say exactly what my husband did but it does seem “safer” than a certificate program. He started out at Palomar and then transferred to UCSD doing a differente degree program. Once there, he realized that C.S. is what he wanted to do and since they offered a C.S. degree at CSUSM and we live very close to CSUSM, he’d transfer there. So that is what he did. It was also a brutal program there compared to what the other majors are. Luckily, he loves what he does and likes to solve problems.
It took several years for him to finish college. You have to be prepared for that. He had to work at a retail job for several years in the evening so that he could still go to school. It was absolutely a huge sacrifice! You will have to make sacrifices for your family (if you are married with kids) that make it very, very challenging. He worked very hard for his degree and it isn’t just a piece of paper for him. He also says that you have push yourself to learn more to make it worth it.
I don’t know exactly what his current employer looked at when hiring him but I have to admit – its pretty impressive that he got a C.S. degree while going to college full time, working managment at a retail store full time, married with a wife and 2 kids (born during this time), and supporting his wife and 2 kids solely on his income alone plus he graduated Cum Laude. I think he is one of the hardest working people I’ve ever met. You will need to have a strong work ethic and make sure you know your stuff!

[barnaby33]

At the low end all fields are crowded. Degree carrying software engineers, or equivalent, are in high demand right now. It is however as I said in a previous post, very boom bust.

As long as you lead on the technology curve it’ll be bumpy but there will be jobs. If however you want to do something less skilled, then you are now and will be in the future at more risk of losing your job.

Josh

[drunkle]

read the want ads, they’ll tell you what you need to learn; .net, sql database design and web development are current key skills.

there are jobs out there and they all want the moon. but everyone likes free labor. learn some basics then start knocking on doors, begging.

organizational skills, methodical problem solving and analysis are critical. if that doesn’t describe you, you should consider the design and art aspects of IT.

[anxvariety]

If you’re looking for a solid career path, you need a good foundation. Most software development companies will not hire programmers without a BS.

I’m in that industry.. I’ve gotten almost every job that I’ve ever interviewed for without a BS or any serious questioning of why I don’t have one. In my opinion it’s almost a moot bullet point on a resume in this industry….

There isn’t a single person within my my group of friends within my age range that makes anywhere close to what I do nor has been employed as much as I have… perhaps this is just indicative of my friends? Many of them spent 50-100k on their college degrees though! I have no degree… a BS degree is mostly that BS! This doesn’t say these friends aren’t brilliant, because many of them are – but a BS still requires much execution and confidence. Do students really learn execution in college??? College is for partying..

Someone asking for instructions on how to get somewhere is a passive type.. and they want to have someone hold their hand.. that person maybe is a good fit for college.. and a sub-mean salary.. but those that really make the most money and are most successful, go on a fast track and aren’t afraid to cut every corner possible to learn and execute as efficiently as possible… college is sluggish and overweight compared to a dedicated person learning on their own.

But it does come down to preference.. If I ran a law firm I’d personally be more interested in the guy that self studied an passed the state bar than the guy that went to Yale.. I think both sides can be argued, and I’m sure that being accredited with a degree from institution is on average more successful, but when you see the leaders in many of our top IT companies they didn’t like school much themselves.. I don’t think it’s a quality to aspire to, it’s more a symptom of a persons perspective.

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