How much did you pay for solar?

[ocrenter]

[quote=AN]Unfortunately, my system is not big enough to bank most of the time.[/quote]

I didn’t think mine would be big enough to bank either, until I see the benefit of TOU summer rates first hand.

[an]

[quote=ocrenter][quote=AN]Unfortunately, my system is not big enough to bank most of the time.[/quote]

I didn’t think mine would be big enough to bank either, until I see the benefit of TOU summer rates first hand.[/quote]
I will have to take a look to see how much i’m using during the day to see if I can even bank. My system is small because of limited roof space and house direction. It’s enough to keep me out of Tier 3-4 during the winter and 2-4 during the summer. But I can only go negative a month during spring and fall.

Update: Just went through last year’s data and did a rough price comparison between TOU-2 vs standard net metering that I’m on right now and it would save me about $130/year ($630 vs $760). That might be enough of a saving for me to buy a used Leaf and drive for free. Thanks for pointing me to TOU ocrenter.

[ocrenter]

[quote=AN][quote=ocrenter][quote=AN]Unfortunately, my system is not big enough to bank most of the time.[/quote]

I didn’t think mine would be big enough to bank either, until I see the benefit of TOU summer rates first hand.[/quote]
I will have to take a look to see how much i’m using during the day to see if I can even bank. My system is small because of limited roof space and house direction. It’s enough to keep me out of Tier 3-4 during the winter and 2-4 during the summer. But I can only go negative a month during spring and fall.

Update: Just went through last year’s data and did a rough price comparison between TOU-2 vs standard net metering that I’m on right now and it would save me about $130/year ($630 vs $760). That might be enough of a saving for me to buy a used Leaf and drive for free. Thanks for pointing me to TOU ocrenter.[/quote]

Haha, no kidding, right?

Try to avoid the 2011 model as the battery is air cooled and therefore degrades faster. Not sure about the 2012 model. Definitely 2013 and newer they are all liquid cooled.

[an]

[quote=ocrenter][quote=AN][quote=ocrenter][quote=AN]Unfortunately, my system is not big enough to bank most of the time.[/quote]

I didn’t think mine would be big enough to bank either, until I see the benefit of TOU summer rates first hand.[/quote]
I will have to take a look to see how much i’m using during the day to see if I can even bank. My system is small because of limited roof space and house direction. It’s enough to keep me out of Tier 3-4 during the winter and 2-4 during the summer. But I can only go negative a month during spring and fall.

Update: Just went through last year’s data and did a rough price comparison between TOU-2 vs standard net metering that I’m on right now and it would save me about $130/year ($630 vs $760). That might be enough of a saving for me to buy a used Leaf and drive for free. Thanks for pointing me to TOU ocrenter.[/quote]

Haha, no kidding, right?

Try to avoid the 2011 model as the battery is air cooled and therefore degrades faster. Not sure about the 2012 model. Definitely 2013 and newer they are all liquid cooled.[/quote]It’s crazy how much the Leaf fall in value. You can pick up a Certified pre-owned 2013 Leaf SL with <20k miles for ~$16k. New, they're going for around $30k after tax rebate. 1/2 off in 2 years. I'm seriously thinking of picking up one and switch over to TOU. If I go with a 2012 model, I can pick one with only 26k miles for $10k.

[joec]

[quote=AN]It’s crazy how much the Leaf fall in value. You can pick up a Certified pre-owned 2013 Leaf SL with <20k miles for ~$16k. New, they're going for around $30k after tax rebate. 1/2 off in 2 years. I'm seriously thinking of picking up one and switch over to TOU. If I go with a 2012 model, I can pick one with only 26k miles for $10k.[/quote]

Is the low price due to the older battery? I assume after all these charge/recharge cycles, a new battery will easily run you 8-10k. I think we all had this discussion here before actually...

[ocrenter]

[quote=joec][quote=AN]It’s crazy how much the Leaf fall in value. You can pick up a Certified pre-owned 2013 Leaf SL with <20k miles for ~$16k. New, they're going for around $30k after tax rebate. 1/2 off in 2 years. I'm seriously thinking of picking up one and switch over to TOU. If I go with a 2012 model, I can pick one with only 26k miles for $10k.[/quote]

Is the low price due to the older battery? I assume after all these charge/recharge cycles, a new battery will easily run you 8-10k. I think we all had this discussion here before actually...[/quote]

New LEAFs at MSRP are $29-$35k. Via TrueCar.com, looks like they are going for $27-33k. This is before the $10k fed/CA rebate. So people are getting them new at $17k to $23k.

The super low prices are especially true with the 2011-12 models. I looked it up and it looks like both years had batteries that were air-cooled.

Battery degradation is actually very minimal once manufacturers figured out they needed to liquid cool the batteries, not just air-cool. Plus they all prevent full 100% charge or complete drainage, which significantly preserve battery life. For example the battery size for the LEAF is 24 kWh, but only 22 kWh is usable.

As for battery price, replacement battery pack for the LEAF is $5500.

[ocrenter]

[an]

I wonder if the number works out, if you have solar w/ TOU and you get a Tesla Powerwall or something like it. The logic is that, solar will generate power at $0.48/kWh during the summer. We can use that power at night at $0.17/kWh. At the same time, we can charge the Powerwall at $0.17/kWh at night for usage during the day at $0.48/kWh. I need to run the number to see if it make sense (all depends on how much the powerwall or other battery pack cost), but briefly thinking about it, it seems to make sense.

[ocrenter]

[quote=AN]I wonder if the number works out, if you have solar w/ TOU and you get a Tesla Powerwall or something like it. The logic is that, solar will generate power at $0.48/kWh during the summer. We can use that power at night at $0.17/kWh. At the same time, we can charge the Powerwall at $0.17/kWh at night for usage during the day at $0.48/kWh. I need to run the number to see if it make sense (all depends on how much the powerwall or other battery pack cost), but briefly thinking about it, it seems to make sense.[/quote]

Even better, what if the Powerwall can return electricity back to the grid during the peak hours. you can store at $0.17/kwh and sell it back at $0.48/kwh!!! You’ll be able to make back the ROI for the Powerwall in no time!

[an]

[quote=ocrenter][quote=AN]I wonder if the number works out, if you have solar w/ TOU and you get a Tesla Powerwall or something like it. The logic is that, solar will generate power at $0.48/kWh during the summer. We can use that power at night at $0.17/kWh. At the same time, we can charge the Powerwall at $0.17/kWh at night for usage during the day at $0.48/kWh. I need to run the number to see if it make sense (all depends on how much the powerwall or other battery pack cost), but briefly thinking about it, it seems to make sense.[/quote]

Even better, what if the Powerwall can return electricity back to the grid during the peak hours. you can store at $0.17/kwh and sell it back at $0.48/kwh!!! You’ll be able to make back the ROI for the Powerwall in no time![/quote]That’s the same thing, right? Either you sell it back to the grid or have enough to cover your peak usage, either way, you’re storing and purchasing at $0.17 and use/sell at $0.48. It would take ~23MWh to break even, assuming it cost about $7k installed of the 10kWh powerwall unit.

[ocrenter]

[quote=AN]That’s the same thing, right? Either you sell it back to the grid or have enough to cover your peak usage, either way, you’re storing and purchasing at $0.17 and use/sell at $0.48. It would take ~23MWh to break even, assuming it cost about $7k installed of the 10kWh powerwall unit.[/quote]

Oh yeah, of course. It would be similar selling back or using the credit.

Powerwall install cost is crazy. $4k just for install? And of course solar city will have monopoly on the install. That’s the Tesla way!

[an]

[quote=ocrenter][quote=AN]That’s the same thing, right? Either you sell it back to the grid or have enough to cover your peak usage, either way, you’re storing and purchasing at $0.17 and use/sell at $0.48. It would take ~23MWh to break even, assuming it cost about $7k installed of the 10kWh powerwall unit.[/quote]

Oh yeah, of course. It would be similar selling back or using the credit.

Powerwall install cost is crazy. $4k just for install? And of course solar city will have monopoly on the install. That’s the Tesla way![/quote]After doing many projects around the house, the safe estimate is installation cost = cost of materials. So, my guess would be $3-4k. That’s not too crazy since installation of solar panel is 2x that and the process isn’t that much more complex.

I just thought about it and realized that this buy at $0.17 and use at $0.48 only apply during the summer. During the Winter, it’s buy at $0.18 and use at $0.21. So, the math would be much less favorable 1/2 of the year.

[ocrenter]

[quote=AN]After doing many projects around the house, the safe estimate is installation cost = cost of materials. So, my guess would be $3-4k. That’s not too crazy since installation of solar panel is 2x that and the process isn’t that much more complex.

I just thought about it and realized that this buy at $0.17 and use at $0.48 only apply during the summer. During the Winter, it’s buy at $0.18 and use at $0.21. So, the math would be much less favorable 1/2 of the year.[/quote]

I do agree I have encountered many estimates that approached the installation cost = material cost scenario.

This is where competition allowed for comparison shop and therefore vendors with install cost = material cost were cast aside.

The latest install of solar panels was prime example. There were definitely companies that hit the 50/50 install/material mark. But then we were able to find others who’s install cost was much lower.

Tesla can charge $4k to install a battery to your home circuit because it is the only game in town, once there’s competition that price will go down.

[svelte]

[quote=ocrenter]
Powerwall install cost is crazy. $4k just for install? And of course solar city will have monopoly on the install. That’s the Tesla way![/quote]

Following the Apple model. 🙂

Yet they complain about states where direct sales to consumers is illegal.

And I’m not too sure it is wise to invest a whole lotta money based on the current electricity price structure for EV homes.

Price structures change, sometimes drastically, so investing a ton of money on the assumption the huge TOU price differential will remain stable over many years is probably gonna end up biting you.

[livinincali]

[quote=AN]
Even better, what if the Powerwall can return electricity back to the grid during the peak hours. you can store at $0.17/kwh and sell it back at $0.48/kwh!!! You’ll be able to make back the ROI for the Powerwall in no time![/quote]

Why would you waste time and money with a powerwall install when you can do the same thing for way less money with a lead acid AGM battery solution. Powerwall is probably one of the dumbest things out there for a home installation but the hype is real is real I guess. Lithium Ion has pretty much one thing going for it and that is weight. Of course in your home weight doesn’t matter so why would you want that much lithium (if this thing catches on fire my house is gone) in your house.

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