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svelte.
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April 10, 2015 at 10:49 PM #784602April 11, 2015 at 1:54 AM #784604
CA renter
Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]CAr, when you think of it, netmetering is inherently unfair — what you might call a subsidy to solar.
People on solar are relying on the power-grid, but they are paying a smaller share, or none at all.
From the power-producers’ point of view, why should they be forced to net meter at all?[/quote]
Solar power generators help increase capacity, usually during peak usage. This enables utility companies to use their (solar) customers’ power production capacity instead of having to build it themselves. Solar customers also help the utility companies meet their renewable energy mandates.
I don’t have a problem with everyone helping to support the grid infrastructure, but it should be based on actual costs. Personally, if SDG&E/Sempra’s profits are rising, I feel that they are in no position to ask for higher rates or other fees from their customers. Of course, as you can imagine, I think that utility companies should not be for profit; they should be owned/controlled by the government.
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/nov/04/sempra-earnings-up-bigtime/
April 11, 2015 at 11:05 PM #784618ucodegen
Participant[quote=svelte]Is it this?
15,300 kwh / 10.4 kw = 1471 hours
1471 hours / 365 days = 4 hours / day.
Do I have that right or am I out to lunch?
4 hours a day seems light…[/quote]
This is a good estimate. The amount of light per square meter falling on the collector is proportional to the cos of the angle between a line to the sun and a line perpendicular to the surface of the solar collector. Therefore to do a ‘flat-line’ estimate, they use a effective value of about 4 hours. It does depend upon your latitude, the angle at which the collectors are mounted at vs sun-arc and whether the collectors are ‘trackers’.April 12, 2015 at 2:03 PM #784634gzz
ParticipantIt drives me nuts my office landlord does not have solar, I’ve asked him a couple times about this and offered to pay more rent to compensate for the value.
There is no “low tier” pricing for commercial property, and our big windows that don’t open mean our power bill gets as high as $400 in the summer, and we keep the AC at around 75 most of the time. With the other tenants using even more, the building probably gets as high as $1200/mo in the summer.
The roof is easy to access and there are no large buildings or other obstructions. There are already power outlets up there. It is a perfect candidate. The only small downside is that the roof is flat so some sort of platform would have to be built at the right south-facing angle.
April 12, 2015 at 2:09 PM #784636ParticipantI noticed the Wal Mart in Clairemont now has some really nice parking lot covering solar panels. It is great to see green power making economic sense.
The amount of coal the USA burns peaked in 2005, and is down about 20% since then. Wind is also now 4% of our total electricity production and wind production is growing by 8% a year. Utility solar is growing much faster, but from a much lower base.
April 12, 2015 at 2:18 PM #784637FlyerInHi
GuestIt nice to see solar becoming mainstream.
It’s become somewhat is a status symbol. Soon we’ll think: what? You don’t have solar?http://www.treehugger.com/bikes/bike-lane-down-center-korean-highway-covered-solar-panels.html
April 15, 2015 at 8:34 PM #784804svelteParticipant[quote=ocrenter]Install date: 12/2014
5250 watt system with microinverters
$15.6k prior to fed tax rebate[/quote]That’s a pretty good deal.
I’m going with twice the size for twice the price plus a couple grand.
Glad to have the decision behind me. The research ate up way, way more time than I had anticipated.
I decided to go power optimizers instead of micro inverters. I know its the new holy war as to which is better…I like the power optimizer concept better personally.
April 17, 2015 at 12:55 AM #784886ocrenter
Participant[quote=svelte][quote=ocrenter]Install date: 12/2014
5250 watt system with microinverters
$15.6k prior to fed tax rebate[/quote]That’s a pretty good deal.
I’m going with twice the size for twice the price plus a couple grand.
Glad to have the decision behind me. The research ate up way, way more time than I had anticipated.
I decided to go power optimizers instead of micro inverters. I know its the new holy war as to which is better…I like the power optimizer concept better personally.[/quote]
Congrats.
Actually, my mistake, turns out my system is with power optimizers underneath each panels. I thought those were microinverters.
April 17, 2015 at 12:58 AM #784887Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]It nice to see solar becoming mainstream.
It’s become somewhat is a status symbol. Soon we’ll think: what? You don’t have solar?It makes so much financial sense it is just crazy not to do it.
My ROI stands at less than 5 years and with an EV I got zero gas bill to go with that. Annual saving of $5000 combined.
April 17, 2015 at 12:36 PM #784893Clifford
Participant[quote=ocrenter][quote=FlyerInHi]It nice to see solar becoming mainstream.
It’s become somewhat is a status symbol. Soon we’ll think: what? You don’t have solar?It makes so much financial sense it is just crazy not to do it.
My ROI stands at less than 5 years and with an EV I got zero gas bill to go with that. Annual saving of $5000 combined.[/quote]
ocrenter,
Prior to install solar panels, how much did you pay for electricity & how much for gasoline ?
April 17, 2015 at 3:22 PM #784898Participant[quote=Clifford][quote=ocrenter][quote=FlyerInHi]It nice to see solar becoming mainstream.
It’s become somewhat is a status symbol. Soon we’ll think: what? You don’t have solar?It makes so much financial sense it is just crazy not to do it.
My ROI stands at less than 5 years and with an EV I got zero gas bill to go with that. Annual saving of $5000 combined.[/quote]
ocrenter,
Prior to install solar panels, how much did you pay for electricity & how much for gasoline ?[/quote]
Average of $150 per month for electricity prior to EV.
Average of $200 per month for electricity after EV (average of 1300 miles per month)
Average of $200 per month on gas prior to EV.April 24, 2015 at 12:01 PM #785272Participanthttp://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/apr/21/commission-backs-utilities-on-bills/
SDGE states the 4 tier system is “unfair” to the heavy users.
LOL!!! The real reason is based on the current tiered system it is an absolute no-brainer for anyone in tier 4 range to change over to solar. They are losing the battle over these heavy users who use to subsidize the masses. So suddenly they realize the 4 tiered system is unfair. Too funny!
April 24, 2015 at 3:48 PM #785279Participant[quote=ocrenter]http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/apr/21/commission-backs-utilities-on-bills/
SDGE states the 4 tier system is “unfair” to the heavy users.
LOL!!! The real reason is based on the current tiered system it is an absolute no-brainer for anyone in tier 4 range to change over to solar. They are losing the battle over these heavy users who use to subsidize the masses. So suddenly they realize the 4 tiered system is unfair. Too funny![/quote]
Exactly! I’ve been harping on this for awhile, too.
Just posted this above in this thread.
[quote=CA renter][quote=AN][quote=Clifford]AN,
I’m in Tier 2 most of the year (I rarely go into Tier 3). Financially, would it be worth it to install solar panels ?[/quote]I would say no. It’s only worthwhile if you’re constantly in Tier 4. Solar is getting cheaper and better, so it might be worthwhile to just want, since you’re not paying very much to SDG&E. The general number is, if your electricity bill is >$150/month, that’s when the number really make sense.[/quote]Also take into consideration the fact that
SDG&E is trying to flatten the tiered pricing structure, going from four tiers back to two, like we had before the “energy crisis” in the early 2000s.This will change the calculations for many people. With the 4-tier pricing, solar is an absolute no-brainer for people who are consistently in the 3rd and 4th tiers (we were almost always deep into tier 4 in this house). After flattening the tiers, the once higher-paying customers won’t benefit as much as under the 4-tier structure (still a good idea to go solar, though), but it might start to make even more sense for those in the lower tiers to go solar.
http://www.sdge.com/tiered-rates
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/feb/28/fixed-electricity-fee-coming/
They claim that they are doing this to make the pricing “fairer” for the higher-paying customers, but the real reason is because those VERY profitable customers are fleeing to solar in relatively large numbers. They are trying to recoup some of that lost money and slow/stop the bleeding.[/quote]
April 25, 2015 at 12:14 PM #785309Participant[quote=CA renter]
Exactly! I’ve been harping on this for awhile, too.
Just posted this above in this thread.
[/quote]
I think the writing is on the wall for SDGE. A change on the tier pricing merely delays the ROI a bit. Solar pricing are dropping so fast that my solar installer was not too concerned about the impending loss of the fed tax rebate by 2016. In fact, my system pre-tax rebate now was $5k less than the post-tax rebate quote from 2 years ago.
April 25, 2015 at 12:33 PM #785310GuestGround zero for solar is Hawaii with the highest solar adoption rate. The utilitiy company is worried.
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