How’s the IT Job Market?

[eclipxe]

[quote=paramount]What do I recommend for alternate careers? That depends on the person, but there are many options from Trucking to the Medical Profession to name but two.

Also, the notion that if your “good” and holistic you’ll have no problems getting a job is an over simplification and a load of s.

For one thing, IT (software or not) has a lot of age discrimination – once your over 40 finding a job becomes much more difficult (particularly in IT).

Also, I no longer consider IT a “career” like perhaps a teacher where in general years of service is actually appreciated.

IT SUCKS!!!

[/quote]

The software field is quite unique in the fact that once you have acquired the necessary skills, absolutely ZERO capital is needed to create a profitable business. If you are over 40 and in the software industry (and GOOD) then you should absolutely have the skills and drive to find a niche where you can compete. As a mISV or even independent contractor. However, if you are 40 and the extent of your knowledge is restarting the database when the finance guys call yelling at you – well then good luck. Pick up a book and start learning how to shape your own future building upon the basic tech skills you already have.

I started writing my own commercial software when I was 16…with no investment of my (or my parents) cash. If I could create something that people wanted to pay for (on a monthly basis at that – recurring revenue!) at 16, don’t cry about age discrimination and not being able to find an IT job. THAT is bs.

There seems to be this growing subset of IT professionals that are whining about age discrimination, outsourcing and unfairness in the industry. Just based on personal knowledge, the folks that are complaining are the ones that “got into computers for the money”. So, as I said before – “good” developers that have a passion for the things they build will always be in demand. You can’t outsource passion and pride in one’s work.

[davelj]

[quote=fat_lazy_union_worker]

Good developers (that are in the field because they view it as an art and a creative endeavor) will not have a problem finding work, even in this market. Developers that are in it to collect a pay check will struggle when faced with outsourced labor that will do it with the same lack of passion but cheaper.

[/quote]

I ain’t no IT expert by a long shot. But my general feeling for the last several years has been: If your job can be outsourced, eventually it will be.

Mechanics and house cleaning folks – just as examples – don’t have to worry because obviously they have to be “on site” to do their jobs. Likewise, jobs that require direct relationships won’t go anywhere either – for example, face-to-face sales.

The dichotomy in finance is easily seen at an investment bank. Grunt work at the associate level and below will largely be outsourced at some point (a monkey could do most of the modeling and graphics work for pitch books). But the partners who deal directly with the clients – their jobs aren’t going anywhere in the generic sense. Likewise, the straightforward PhD-level derivatives number crunching will get outsourced, but the “creative” guys at the top will always be on site. If the job involves a lot of creativity, direct client contact, and/or security issues, it isn’t going anywhere. But if it doesn’t – look out.

As an unlikely example, my CPA is starting to outsource certain tax accounting tasks to a firm in India. Now, he hasn’t let anyone go in order to do this but he plans on outsourcing more and more as the firm grows instead of hiring more folks directly.

I’d imagine IT will be the same way. The generic engineering-type stuff will continue to be outsourced at an increasing pace. I have a friend that used to manage a team of folks in Eastern Europe for his firm. He told me that one day he woke up and realized that some of these guys were better than he was and that he needed to find something else to do because eventually he wasn’t going to be able to compete, which is exactly what he did. But the really creative and relationship-driven jobs will stay here.

If you sit down and ask yourself, “Can someone overseas do my job?” and the answer is yes, then eventually it’s either going to happen or the fact that it could happen is one day going to dramatically affect your pay. At least that’s what I suspect. But again, I ain’t no IT perfeshnul.

[davelj]

[quote=fat_lazy_union_worker]

Good developers (that are in the field because they view it as an art and a creative endeavor) will not have a problem finding work, even in this market. Developers that are in it to collect a pay check will struggle when faced with outsourced labor that will do it with the same lack of passion but cheaper.

[/quote]

I ain’t no IT expert by a long shot. But my general feeling for the last several years has been: If your job can be outsourced, eventually it will be.

Mechanics and house cleaning folks – just as examples – don’t have to worry because obviously they have to be “on site” to do their jobs. Likewise, jobs that require direct relationships won’t go anywhere either – for example, face-to-face sales.

The dichotomy in finance is easily seen at an investment bank. Grunt work at the associate level and below will largely be outsourced at some point (a monkey could do most of the modeling and graphics work for pitch books). But the partners who deal directly with the clients – their jobs aren’t going anywhere in the generic sense. Likewise, the straightforward PhD-level derivatives number crunching will get outsourced, but the “creative” guys at the top will always be on site. If the job involves a lot of creativity, direct client contact, and/or security issues, it isn’t going anywhere. But if it doesn’t – look out.

As an unlikely example, my CPA is starting to outsource certain tax accounting tasks to a firm in India. Now, he hasn’t let anyone go in order to do this but he plans on outsourcing more and more as the firm grows instead of hiring more folks directly.

I’d imagine IT will be the same way. The generic engineering-type stuff will continue to be outsourced at an increasing pace. I have a friend that used to manage a team of folks in Eastern Europe for his firm. He told me that one day he woke up and realized that some of these guys were better than he was and that he needed to find something else to do because eventually he wasn’t going to be able to compete, which is exactly what he did. But the really creative and relationship-driven jobs will stay here.

If you sit down and ask yourself, “Can someone overseas do my job?” and the answer is yes, then eventually it’s either going to happen or the fact that it could happen is one day going to dramatically affect your pay. At least that’s what I suspect. But again, I ain’t no IT perfeshnul.

[davelj]

[quote=fat_lazy_union_worker]

Good developers (that are in the field because they view it as an art and a creative endeavor) will not have a problem finding work, even in this market. Developers that are in it to collect a pay check will struggle when faced with outsourced labor that will do it with the same lack of passion but cheaper.

[/quote]

I ain’t no IT expert by a long shot. But my general feeling for the last several years has been: If your job can be outsourced, eventually it will be.

Mechanics and house cleaning folks – just as examples – don’t have to worry because obviously they have to be “on site” to do their jobs. Likewise, jobs that require direct relationships won’t go anywhere either – for example, face-to-face sales.

The dichotomy in finance is easily seen at an investment bank. Grunt work at the associate level and below will largely be outsourced at some point (a monkey could do most of the modeling and graphics work for pitch books). But the partners who deal directly with the clients – their jobs aren’t going anywhere in the generic sense. Likewise, the straightforward PhD-level derivatives number crunching will get outsourced, but the “creative” guys at the top will always be on site. If the job involves a lot of creativity, direct client contact, and/or security issues, it isn’t going anywhere. But if it doesn’t – look out.

As an unlikely example, my CPA is starting to outsource certain tax accounting tasks to a firm in India. Now, he hasn’t let anyone go in order to do this but he plans on outsourcing more and more as the firm grows instead of hiring more folks directly.

I’d imagine IT will be the same way. The generic engineering-type stuff will continue to be outsourced at an increasing pace. I have a friend that used to manage a team of folks in Eastern Europe for his firm. He told me that one day he woke up and realized that some of these guys were better than he was and that he needed to find something else to do because eventually he wasn’t going to be able to compete, which is exactly what he did. But the really creative and relationship-driven jobs will stay here.

If you sit down and ask yourself, “Can someone overseas do my job?” and the answer is yes, then eventually it’s either going to happen or the fact that it could happen is one day going to dramatically affect your pay. At least that’s what I suspect. But again, I ain’t no IT perfeshnul.

[davelj]

[quote=fat_lazy_union_worker]

Good developers (that are in the field because they view it as an art and a creative endeavor) will not have a problem finding work, even in this market. Developers that are in it to collect a pay check will struggle when faced with outsourced labor that will do it with the same lack of passion but cheaper.

[/quote]

I ain’t no IT expert by a long shot. But my general feeling for the last several years has been: If your job can be outsourced, eventually it will be.

Mechanics and house cleaning folks – just as examples – don’t have to worry because obviously they have to be “on site” to do their jobs. Likewise, jobs that require direct relationships won’t go anywhere either – for example, face-to-face sales.

The dichotomy in finance is easily seen at an investment bank. Grunt work at the associate level and below will largely be outsourced at some point (a monkey could do most of the modeling and graphics work for pitch books). But the partners who deal directly with the clients – their jobs aren’t going anywhere in the generic sense. Likewise, the straightforward PhD-level derivatives number crunching will get outsourced, but the “creative” guys at the top will always be on site. If the job involves a lot of creativity, direct client contact, and/or security issues, it isn’t going anywhere. But if it doesn’t – look out.

As an unlikely example, my CPA is starting to outsource certain tax accounting tasks to a firm in India. Now, he hasn’t let anyone go in order to do this but he plans on outsourcing more and more as the firm grows instead of hiring more folks directly.

I’d imagine IT will be the same way. The generic engineering-type stuff will continue to be outsourced at an increasing pace. I have a friend that used to manage a team of folks in Eastern Europe for his firm. He told me that one day he woke up and realized that some of these guys were better than he was and that he needed to find something else to do because eventually he wasn’t going to be able to compete, which is exactly what he did. But the really creative and relationship-driven jobs will stay here.

If you sit down and ask yourself, “Can someone overseas do my job?” and the answer is yes, then eventually it’s either going to happen or the fact that it could happen is one day going to dramatically affect your pay. At least that’s what I suspect. But again, I ain’t no IT perfeshnul.

[davelj]

[quote=fat_lazy_union_worker]

Good developers (that are in the field because they view it as an art and a creative endeavor) will not have a problem finding work, even in this market. Developers that are in it to collect a pay check will struggle when faced with outsourced labor that will do it with the same lack of passion but cheaper.

[/quote]

I ain’t no IT expert by a long shot. But my general feeling for the last several years has been: If your job can be outsourced, eventually it will be.

Mechanics and house cleaning folks – just as examples – don’t have to worry because obviously they have to be “on site” to do their jobs. Likewise, jobs that require direct relationships won’t go anywhere either – for example, face-to-face sales.

The dichotomy in finance is easily seen at an investment bank. Grunt work at the associate level and below will largely be outsourced at some point (a monkey could do most of the modeling and graphics work for pitch books). But the partners who deal directly with the clients – their jobs aren’t going anywhere in the generic sense. Likewise, the straightforward PhD-level derivatives number crunching will get outsourced, but the “creative” guys at the top will always be on site. If the job involves a lot of creativity, direct client contact, and/or security issues, it isn’t going anywhere. But if it doesn’t – look out.

As an unlikely example, my CPA is starting to outsource certain tax accounting tasks to a firm in India. Now, he hasn’t let anyone go in order to do this but he plans on outsourcing more and more as the firm grows instead of hiring more folks directly.

I’d imagine IT will be the same way. The generic engineering-type stuff will continue to be outsourced at an increasing pace. I have a friend that used to manage a team of folks in Eastern Europe for his firm. He told me that one day he woke up and realized that some of these guys were better than he was and that he needed to find something else to do because eventually he wasn’t going to be able to compete, which is exactly what he did. But the really creative and relationship-driven jobs will stay here.

If you sit down and ask yourself, “Can someone overseas do my job?” and the answer is yes, then eventually it’s either going to happen or the fact that it could happen is one day going to dramatically affect your pay. At least that’s what I suspect. But again, I ain’t no IT perfeshnul.

[Eugene]

Outsourcing has been around for a decade and we still have jobs.

On one hand, the pool of IT professionals in this country is shrinking. Computer science is extremely unpopular among young Americans – IIRC the percentage of computer science degrees is something like 2% among males and 0.2% among female. American software companies can’t bring enough H1B’s to satisfy demand.

There is a certain wage gap that is necessary to keep outsourcing profitable. Growth in emerging markets pushes on this wage gap and makes companies in developed countries less likely to outsource. Wages in India, China, and Eastern Europe are growing 10-15%/year. In 2000 you could hire a bunch of decent programmers in Moscow for $1000/month and they’d be happy to work for you. Today you offer that salary and they will laugh at you.

[Eugene]

Outsourcing has been around for a decade and we still have jobs.

On one hand, the pool of IT professionals in this country is shrinking. Computer science is extremely unpopular among young Americans – IIRC the percentage of computer science degrees is something like 2% among males and 0.2% among female. American software companies can’t bring enough H1B’s to satisfy demand.

There is a certain wage gap that is necessary to keep outsourcing profitable. Growth in emerging markets pushes on this wage gap and makes companies in developed countries less likely to outsource. Wages in India, China, and Eastern Europe are growing 10-15%/year. In 2000 you could hire a bunch of decent programmers in Moscow for $1000/month and they’d be happy to work for you. Today you offer that salary and they will laugh at you.

[Eugene]

Outsourcing has been around for a decade and we still have jobs.

On one hand, the pool of IT professionals in this country is shrinking. Computer science is extremely unpopular among young Americans – IIRC the percentage of computer science degrees is something like 2% among males and 0.2% among female. American software companies can’t bring enough H1B’s to satisfy demand.

There is a certain wage gap that is necessary to keep outsourcing profitable. Growth in emerging markets pushes on this wage gap and makes companies in developed countries less likely to outsource. Wages in India, China, and Eastern Europe are growing 10-15%/year. In 2000 you could hire a bunch of decent programmers in Moscow for $1000/month and they’d be happy to work for you. Today you offer that salary and they will laugh at you.

[Eugene]

Outsourcing has been around for a decade and we still have jobs.

On one hand, the pool of IT professionals in this country is shrinking. Computer science is extremely unpopular among young Americans – IIRC the percentage of computer science degrees is something like 2% among males and 0.2% among female. American software companies can’t bring enough H1B’s to satisfy demand.

There is a certain wage gap that is necessary to keep outsourcing profitable. Growth in emerging markets pushes on this wage gap and makes companies in developed countries less likely to outsource. Wages in India, China, and Eastern Europe are growing 10-15%/year. In 2000 you could hire a bunch of decent programmers in Moscow for $1000/month and they’d be happy to work for you. Today you offer that salary and they will laugh at you.

[Eugene]

Outsourcing has been around for a decade and we still have jobs.

On one hand, the pool of IT professionals in this country is shrinking. Computer science is extremely unpopular among young Americans – IIRC the percentage of computer science degrees is something like 2% among males and 0.2% among female. American software companies can’t bring enough H1B’s to satisfy demand.

There is a certain wage gap that is necessary to keep outsourcing profitable. Growth in emerging markets pushes on this wage gap and makes companies in developed countries less likely to outsource. Wages in India, China, and Eastern Europe are growing 10-15%/year. In 2000 you could hire a bunch of decent programmers in Moscow for $1000/month and they’d be happy to work for you. Today you offer that salary and they will laugh at you.

[paramount]

Please join me in the real world!

“Do what you enjoy and it will all work out” – another load of s. If life were only that easy.

You do what pays the bills, and hopefully it happens to be something you enjoy. For most people, that’s the way things work.

Also, eclipxe, I wish I lived in your ideal world. IT is a moving target and skill requirements change and often rapidly – it often comes down to more than “GOOD” and “PRIDE” and all of that other BS your spouting – those subjective ideals alone will not guarantee that anyone is in demand.

As far as age discrimination is concerned, your comments have no value IMO as I suspect you don’t have a clue or have never been a victim of age discrimnation.

When you are 48 and get laid off from an IT job where you were making 6 figures then you might get the idea. Then maybe you won’t be so arrogant.

[paramount]

Please join me in the real world!

“Do what you enjoy and it will all work out” – another load of s. If life were only that easy.

You do what pays the bills, and hopefully it happens to be something you enjoy. For most people, that’s the way things work.

Also, eclipxe, I wish I lived in your ideal world. IT is a moving target and skill requirements change and often rapidly – it often comes down to more than “GOOD” and “PRIDE” and all of that other BS your spouting – those subjective ideals alone will not guarantee that anyone is in demand.

As far as age discrimination is concerned, your comments have no value IMO as I suspect you don’t have a clue or have never been a victim of age discrimnation.

When you are 48 and get laid off from an IT job where you were making 6 figures then you might get the idea. Then maybe you won’t be so arrogant.

[paramount]

Please join me in the real world!

“Do what you enjoy and it will all work out” – another load of s. If life were only that easy.

You do what pays the bills, and hopefully it happens to be something you enjoy. For most people, that’s the way things work.

Also, eclipxe, I wish I lived in your ideal world. IT is a moving target and skill requirements change and often rapidly – it often comes down to more than “GOOD” and “PRIDE” and all of that other BS your spouting – those subjective ideals alone will not guarantee that anyone is in demand.

As far as age discrimination is concerned, your comments have no value IMO as I suspect you don’t have a clue or have never been a victim of age discrimnation.

When you are 48 and get laid off from an IT job where you were making 6 figures then you might get the idea. Then maybe you won’t be so arrogant.

[paramount]

Please join me in the real world!

“Do what you enjoy and it will all work out” – another load of s. If life were only that easy.

You do what pays the bills, and hopefully it happens to be something you enjoy. For most people, that’s the way things work.

Also, eclipxe, I wish I lived in your ideal world. IT is a moving target and skill requirements change and often rapidly – it often comes down to more than “GOOD” and “PRIDE” and all of that other BS your spouting – those subjective ideals alone will not guarantee that anyone is in demand.

As far as age discrimination is concerned, your comments have no value IMO as I suspect you don’t have a clue or have never been a victim of age discrimnation.

When you are 48 and get laid off from an IT job where you were making 6 figures then you might get the idea. Then maybe you won’t be so arrogant.

[Author]

Posts