Housing bubble bloodbath

[BostonAndOC_RE_perspective]

No_Such_Reality,
check your figures. Look at the link here (http://blogs.ocregister.com/lansner/archives/2007/01/oc_wages_growing_at_63.html#comments) in Lansner’s blog for the recent Bureau of Labor Statistics avg weekly wages.

Summary:
SD County: $850, $44K/yr
Santa Clara County: $1386, $72K/yr
OC: $916, $47K/yr
NY County: $1453, $75K/yr
Suffolk MA (Boston): $1228, $64K/yr
SF County: $1231, $64K/yr

Based on these figures, the avg SD wage earner is a service sector employee, likely lacking a 4 yr degree. Concerning affordability, one can see that the resident of NY, BOS, SF, or San Jose make significantly more $$$ and dedicate less of it to housing than in SD or OC. In the 4 years since I moved to New England from SoCal (LA native), I’ve doubled my salary, largely due to the incredibly hot job market here for skilled professionals. The weather may suck, but if you want to make serious money working for large banks or corporations, NY, BOS, SF and SJC are really the only places where you can do it. You can lump in Northern VA too but the summer weather there is so bad I’ll leave it off the list.

[sdrealtor]

Well said BOCE,
People that have never lived in areas like that (not necessearily NSR) have no clue how much more money flows through major metros.

[BostonAndOC_RE_perspective]

sdr,
Yes, I agree. You can count me amongst the folks who used to think that we in SoCal were the wealthiest folks anywhere. Now my big dilemma is what happens to my career if I move back to OC. I’m in high-tech, and compared to SF, BOS or SJC, SoCal is a tech backwater with virtually zero VC $$$ flowing into it.

Boston is also the #2 money center in the US after NYC. Where else in the country can you make $250K and find a nice house in a great area within a 1 hour driving commute for $500K-$800K?

The only negative aside from weather if you have a family is the dearth of good state universities in the east. In CA one forgets how lucky one is to have UCB and UCLA as state school options. UMass, UNH, UVT, UMaine, OConn all suck – 3rd rate state schools dwarfed by Harvard/Tufts/Dartmouth/Yale/MIT/Princeton/Amherst etc etc etc. If you live in the NE, prepare to save big $$$ and hope your kids get into good private schools.

[an]

To all who say Boston, NY, etc have higher paying jobs than SD, it might only apply to only some industry. Here’s what salary.com is saying regarding average wage a Sr. Software Engineer make:
San Diego: 74-92k
Boston: 78-96k
NY: 82-102k
SF: 82-102k
SJ: 83-102k

I don’t see SD being that much lower than those other areas. It’s 5% less than Boston and 15% less than NY, SF, SJ. Cost of living in NY, SF, SJ is also more than SD, so I don’t see how SD is being paid much worse than other area.

[BostonAndOC_RE_perspective]

Asianautica,
A senior (7-10 yr exp) sw engineer at my company probably makes $100K salary, more including bonuses etc. A SW eng mgr could make $150K easily.

A crackerjack SW guy at Fidelity in downtown Boston could make $150K, maybe more.

[Anonymous]

In the medical device industry, there’s not much difference in median salaries between the Northeast and SoCal for working stiffs. Per a 2006 survey of 118 medical device companies across the U.S., median salaries were:

R&D Engineering Manager, Level 3
Northeast — $116K; SoCal — $108K

R&D Engineering Manager, Level 6
Northeast — $143K; SoCal — $133K

Mechanical Engineer, Level 2
Northeast — $66K; SoCal — $62K

Mechanical Engineer, Level 5
Northeast — $105K; SoCal — $114K

[an]

BostonAndOC, when I say Sr. software engineer, I’m referring to sw engineer lvl 3 on Salary.com. That’s 3-5 yrs experience. Of course there are company that pay extremely well but I think salary.com does a good job getting you the average of all the company in the area. That’s the # I provided. It’s from salary.com.

[BostonAndOC_RE_perspective]

Asianautica,
Sure, I understand. I guess my real thesis statement here is that due to the higher upper bound for salaries in the aforementioned metro areas compared to SD (borne out by avg weeekly earnings data from BLS) combined with lower housing costs, it is easier to attain personal balance sheet growth. This is largely due to the more rational 3-4:1 ratio of salaries/home prices. The Bay area may be an exception, but most dual income couples I know there are older and combine for at least $300K.

[an]

BostonAndOC, very interesting thesis. I guess I would have to look closer at the jobs available in monster.com in Boston to have a clearer picture.

[sdrealtor]

There is money in places you wouldnt even suspect back east that you just dont find here. Here’s an example, in Socal we have Frazee Paint stores, Dunn Edward Paint Stores, Vista Paint Stores, Home Depot, Lowes and Dixieline which I guess pay their employees $10 to $15 an hour.

Where I grew up we have local family owned companies. The family of one of my best friends growing up owns 3 large Wallpaper and Paint stores. All the kids go to college for a degree and some fun. How they do really isnt important. When they graduate, they come back to an entry level position (stock boy) at a salary of at least $100,000. Everyone in the family starts this way and works their way up. They all work very hard and there is plenty to go around (there are at least 20 family members working in the business). Spouses marrying into the family work there and get the same deal. My friend is now a co-manager of one of the stores (probably somewhere between #5 and #10 in the company) and takes home at least $300,000 a year. More if he needs it. His wife has a high paying job there too. They own all the shopping centers where their stores are located and have handful of tenants in each.

In SoCal, all the money would go to a corporation, my friends position would be filled by an assitant mgr earning $40K and the Commerical Real Estate would be owned by a REIT. Back East these companies are family owned and operated as they have been for generations.

[lostkitty]

This thread really got me thinking:

Everything said about moving out of state and actually having more money, better lifestyle really struck a chord with me. As I’ve said before, we left SD almost 5 years ago for upstate NY. I read the numbers and lower incomes for this area, but I dont SEE the same level of economic stress. We actually make more money, save more money, do more, spend more, live much better. It is the same for my friends. Most are loaded from a lifetime of stability. Even those without big incomes live fine lives, own homes, have pools and clubs they belong to, have all they need or want (and more), travel, etc. Even public school teachers can afford a life such as this… Imagine that……

the numbers dont tell the whole story (as usual).

Then I thought, what the hell do I keep coming back to pigginton.com for? I can argue politics at the Town Hall if i really care to. I can look up properties, numbers and articles myself in my search and wait for the best vacation place in SD for the summers. This RE crash thing is so slow moving – I’ll not miss anything by not checking up on the latest news every few hours as I try to do eveyrthing else I need to in a day. I dash off messages in a flash every chance I possibly can.
In short, I am totally addicted to pigginton. Not healthy. So sayonara. Hope I can resist the urge to return. Good luck to anyone else who is piggaddicted….

[ibjames]

I’m addicted too, I have thought many times myself about the same thing your post is about. My wife and I moved here, can only rent, and we both sometimes think what is going on.

The good thing though, both our incomes took a nice jump moving here, so we actually have more money now then we did back home.

There is a lot to be said though about owning your own place, and having the opportunity to plant a tree and watch it grow in your yard.

[DaCounselor]

“There is money in places you wouldnt even suspect back east that you just dont find here. Here’s an example, in Socal we have Frazee Paint stores, Dunn Edward Paint Stores, Vista Paint Stores, Home Depot, Lowes and Dixieline which I guess pay their employees $10 to $15 an hour.”
_________________________

The East Coast is also loaded with similar corporate-owned franchises. For decades the mass-developed East Coast suburbs have seen strip mall after strip mall go up, all full of corporate-owned franchises. And Southern Cal has its fair share of family-owned businesses. I don’t quite get the attempted distinction between East and West Coasts.
There are plenty of people making plenty of money on both coasts, and there are plenty of people just scraping by on both coasts.

[blahblahblah]

All the kids go to college for a degree and some fun. How they do really isnt important. When they graduate, they come back to an entry level position (stock boy) at a salary of at least $100,000. Everyone in the family starts this way and works their way up.

I’m sure that’s a very competitive wallpaper/paint business if they pay their stockboys $100K/year. From reading this thread, it seems that everyone in the US makes a minimum of $100K a year. Even SW engineers with a few years of experience are apparently making $150K/year in Boston. And everyone in the Bay Area has a combined household income of $300K/year. From the sound of it, the entire US is in dandy shape! $800K condos for everybody!

[bob007]

i know a lot of software engineers making below 100k. I was making 80k in 2004. there is a risk of losing job.

i do not think the housing bubble will truly ever burst until govt gets out of the housing sector

[Author]

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