House crams healthcare bill down the countries throat.

[Hobie]

Might I add Brian, that a decade from now the health care system will not be judged by the cost to GDP but rather the quantity and quality of new doctors and high skilled nurses that are choosing medicine as a career.

[Arraya]

Manufactured consent is how the media serves to frame debate within the confines acceptable to the establishment.

“The model therefore attempts to describe how the media form a decentralized and non-conspiratorial but nonetheless very powerful propaganda system that is able to mobilize an “élite” consensus, frame public debate within “élite” perspectives and at the same time give the appearance of democratic consent.”

It’s funny to see so many people viewing this “health care reform debate” within the very narrow parameters set forth by the MSM. Debating the minutiae within the bill is an example of this.

I gotta give it up to the right, they are organized. I mean, the thing is barely passed and already their talking points are posted all over the web, including here on this thread. Amazing. These manufactured talking points are filtered down from monied interests and serve no other purpose than to protect the very wealthy.

We do not need health care reform, we need health insurance reform. 30-40% of all private health insurance premiums goes to overhead, admin costs, and profits for the insurance companies. Only 4% of Medicare premiums go towards overhead and admin costs and guess what, no profits because it is a non-profit govt run program.

If we eliminate private health insurance and go to a single payer system, guess what, we have reduced health care costs by a considerable amount. Hospitals will no longer have to fund indigent patients and our citizens will no longer have to declare bankruptcy when saddled with huge medical bills because either they were denied coverage (the profit thing again) or they did not have health insurance. The money is there for universal coverage. It is much less than a few months of our military adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan or a few months of the interest we pay on servicing debt. Heck, the pentagon has spare parts for airplanes lying around the equate to more than a few years of healthcare.

However, the Health Insurance industry, which is the siamese twin of Wall Street, has spent millions of dollars lobbying to keep the status quo because of their potential profit loss if single payer goes through. They have bought our congress and we have gotten the shaft as a result. This watered down and ineffectual bill is an example.

Still, this thing doesn’t kick in until 2013. So if you are on the right, you can find solace in the fact that we may have a soviet style governmental collapse before then that can get used to discredit Obama and bring back the robber barren days of 9 year olds working in coal mines. However, the collapse could be pushed off until after the 2012 election if Obama plays ball with the Fed and gets our foreign creditors to be nice until then. God knows the deal he would have to make with the devil to get this outcome, but it’s becoming more likely.

[Arraya]

Manufactured consent is how the media serves to frame debate within the confines acceptable to the establishment.

“The model therefore attempts to describe how the media form a decentralized and non-conspiratorial but nonetheless very powerful propaganda system that is able to mobilize an “élite” consensus, frame public debate within “élite” perspectives and at the same time give the appearance of democratic consent.”

It’s funny to see so many people viewing this “health care reform debate” within the very narrow parameters set forth by the MSM. Debating the minutiae within the bill is an example of this.

I gotta give it up to the right, they are organized. I mean, the thing is barely passed and already their talking points are posted all over the web, including here on this thread. Amazing. These manufactured talking points are filtered down from monied interests and serve no other purpose than to protect the very wealthy.

We do not need health care reform, we need health insurance reform. 30-40% of all private health insurance premiums goes to overhead, admin costs, and profits for the insurance companies. Only 4% of Medicare premiums go towards overhead and admin costs and guess what, no profits because it is a non-profit govt run program.

If we eliminate private health insurance and go to a single payer system, guess what, we have reduced health care costs by a considerable amount. Hospitals will no longer have to fund indigent patients and our citizens will no longer have to declare bankruptcy when saddled with huge medical bills because either they were denied coverage (the profit thing again) or they did not have health insurance. The money is there for universal coverage. It is much less than a few months of our military adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan or a few months of the interest we pay on servicing debt. Heck, the pentagon has spare parts for airplanes lying around the equate to more than a few years of healthcare.

However, the Health Insurance industry, which is the siamese twin of Wall Street, has spent millions of dollars lobbying to keep the status quo because of their potential profit loss if single payer goes through. They have bought our congress and we have gotten the shaft as a result. This watered down and ineffectual bill is an example.

Still, this thing doesn’t kick in until 2013. So if you are on the right, you can find solace in the fact that we may have a soviet style governmental collapse before then that can get used to discredit Obama and bring back the robber barren days of 9 year olds working in coal mines. However, the collapse could be pushed off until after the 2012 election if Obama plays ball with the Fed and gets our foreign creditors to be nice until then. God knows the deal he would have to make with the devil to get this outcome, but it’s becoming more likely.

[Arraya]

Manufactured consent is how the media serves to frame debate within the confines acceptable to the establishment.

“The model therefore attempts to describe how the media form a decentralized and non-conspiratorial but nonetheless very powerful propaganda system that is able to mobilize an “élite” consensus, frame public debate within “élite” perspectives and at the same time give the appearance of democratic consent.”

It’s funny to see so many people viewing this “health care reform debate” within the very narrow parameters set forth by the MSM. Debating the minutiae within the bill is an example of this.

I gotta give it up to the right, they are organized. I mean, the thing is barely passed and already their talking points are posted all over the web, including here on this thread. Amazing. These manufactured talking points are filtered down from monied interests and serve no other purpose than to protect the very wealthy.

We do not need health care reform, we need health insurance reform. 30-40% of all private health insurance premiums goes to overhead, admin costs, and profits for the insurance companies. Only 4% of Medicare premiums go towards overhead and admin costs and guess what, no profits because it is a non-profit govt run program.

If we eliminate private health insurance and go to a single payer system, guess what, we have reduced health care costs by a considerable amount. Hospitals will no longer have to fund indigent patients and our citizens will no longer have to declare bankruptcy when saddled with huge medical bills because either they were denied coverage (the profit thing again) or they did not have health insurance. The money is there for universal coverage. It is much less than a few months of our military adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan or a few months of the interest we pay on servicing debt. Heck, the pentagon has spare parts for airplanes lying around the equate to more than a few years of healthcare.

However, the Health Insurance industry, which is the siamese twin of Wall Street, has spent millions of dollars lobbying to keep the status quo because of their potential profit loss if single payer goes through. They have bought our congress and we have gotten the shaft as a result. This watered down and ineffectual bill is an example.

Still, this thing doesn’t kick in until 2013. So if you are on the right, you can find solace in the fact that we may have a soviet style governmental collapse before then that can get used to discredit Obama and bring back the robber barren days of 9 year olds working in coal mines. However, the collapse could be pushed off until after the 2012 election if Obama plays ball with the Fed and gets our foreign creditors to be nice until then. God knows the deal he would have to make with the devil to get this outcome, but it’s becoming more likely.

[Arraya]

Manufactured consent is how the media serves to frame debate within the confines acceptable to the establishment.

“The model therefore attempts to describe how the media form a decentralized and non-conspiratorial but nonetheless very powerful propaganda system that is able to mobilize an “élite” consensus, frame public debate within “élite” perspectives and at the same time give the appearance of democratic consent.”

It’s funny to see so many people viewing this “health care reform debate” within the very narrow parameters set forth by the MSM. Debating the minutiae within the bill is an example of this.

I gotta give it up to the right, they are organized. I mean, the thing is barely passed and already their talking points are posted all over the web, including here on this thread. Amazing. These manufactured talking points are filtered down from monied interests and serve no other purpose than to protect the very wealthy.

We do not need health care reform, we need health insurance reform. 30-40% of all private health insurance premiums goes to overhead, admin costs, and profits for the insurance companies. Only 4% of Medicare premiums go towards overhead and admin costs and guess what, no profits because it is a non-profit govt run program.

If we eliminate private health insurance and go to a single payer system, guess what, we have reduced health care costs by a considerable amount. Hospitals will no longer have to fund indigent patients and our citizens will no longer have to declare bankruptcy when saddled with huge medical bills because either they were denied coverage (the profit thing again) or they did not have health insurance. The money is there for universal coverage. It is much less than a few months of our military adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan or a few months of the interest we pay on servicing debt. Heck, the pentagon has spare parts for airplanes lying around the equate to more than a few years of healthcare.

However, the Health Insurance industry, which is the siamese twin of Wall Street, has spent millions of dollars lobbying to keep the status quo because of their potential profit loss if single payer goes through. They have bought our congress and we have gotten the shaft as a result. This watered down and ineffectual bill is an example.

Still, this thing doesn’t kick in until 2013. So if you are on the right, you can find solace in the fact that we may have a soviet style governmental collapse before then that can get used to discredit Obama and bring back the robber barren days of 9 year olds working in coal mines. However, the collapse could be pushed off until after the 2012 election if Obama plays ball with the Fed and gets our foreign creditors to be nice until then. God knows the deal he would have to make with the devil to get this outcome, but it’s becoming more likely.

[Arraya]

Manufactured consent is how the media serves to frame debate within the confines acceptable to the establishment.

“The model therefore attempts to describe how the media form a decentralized and non-conspiratorial but nonetheless very powerful propaganda system that is able to mobilize an “élite” consensus, frame public debate within “élite” perspectives and at the same time give the appearance of democratic consent.”

It’s funny to see so many people viewing this “health care reform debate” within the very narrow parameters set forth by the MSM. Debating the minutiae within the bill is an example of this.

I gotta give it up to the right, they are organized. I mean, the thing is barely passed and already their talking points are posted all over the web, including here on this thread. Amazing. These manufactured talking points are filtered down from monied interests and serve no other purpose than to protect the very wealthy.

We do not need health care reform, we need health insurance reform. 30-40% of all private health insurance premiums goes to overhead, admin costs, and profits for the insurance companies. Only 4% of Medicare premiums go towards overhead and admin costs and guess what, no profits because it is a non-profit govt run program.

If we eliminate private health insurance and go to a single payer system, guess what, we have reduced health care costs by a considerable amount. Hospitals will no longer have to fund indigent patients and our citizens will no longer have to declare bankruptcy when saddled with huge medical bills because either they were denied coverage (the profit thing again) or they did not have health insurance. The money is there for universal coverage. It is much less than a few months of our military adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan or a few months of the interest we pay on servicing debt. Heck, the pentagon has spare parts for airplanes lying around the equate to more than a few years of healthcare.

However, the Health Insurance industry, which is the siamese twin of Wall Street, has spent millions of dollars lobbying to keep the status quo because of their potential profit loss if single payer goes through. They have bought our congress and we have gotten the shaft as a result. This watered down and ineffectual bill is an example.

Still, this thing doesn’t kick in until 2013. So if you are on the right, you can find solace in the fact that we may have a soviet style governmental collapse before then that can get used to discredit Obama and bring back the robber barren days of 9 year olds working in coal mines. However, the collapse could be pushed off until after the 2012 election if Obama plays ball with the Fed and gets our foreign creditors to be nice until then. God knows the deal he would have to make with the devil to get this outcome, but it’s becoming more likely.

[briansd1]

Arraya, very good post.

I personally don’t believe in wide conspiracies (except the wide right-wing conspiracy, haha..) where a creator, at the top, controls the chain of events. In my opinion, the convergence of perceived interests cause political groups act in unison.

Right now, employers are bearing the brunt of the health care costs because they have to buy insurance for their employees.

I believe that big businesses and even the NFIB will eventually come to support the public option (and perhaps a single-payer system) once they realize that they can save money.

Arraya, I don’t forecast the economic collapse that you’re seeing. The US government can still borrow quite a bit before we hit crisis level. Public debt as a fraction of GDP is still very manageable.

If I were Obama I would give people a good dose of Reagan-like optimism and hope combined with spending, spending and spending (not on the military, but on the social programs for the poor and unemployed) without raising taxes on the middle-class. The economy will recover, real estate prices will increase nominally; and Obama will get reelected.

[briansd1]

Arraya, very good post.

I personally don’t believe in wide conspiracies (except the wide right-wing conspiracy, haha..) where a creator, at the top, controls the chain of events. In my opinion, the convergence of perceived interests cause political groups act in unison.

Right now, employers are bearing the brunt of the health care costs because they have to buy insurance for their employees.

I believe that big businesses and even the NFIB will eventually come to support the public option (and perhaps a single-payer system) once they realize that they can save money.

Arraya, I don’t forecast the economic collapse that you’re seeing. The US government can still borrow quite a bit before we hit crisis level. Public debt as a fraction of GDP is still very manageable.

If I were Obama I would give people a good dose of Reagan-like optimism and hope combined with spending, spending and spending (not on the military, but on the social programs for the poor and unemployed) without raising taxes on the middle-class. The economy will recover, real estate prices will increase nominally; and Obama will get reelected.

[briansd1]

Arraya, very good post.

I personally don’t believe in wide conspiracies (except the wide right-wing conspiracy, haha..) where a creator, at the top, controls the chain of events. In my opinion, the convergence of perceived interests cause political groups act in unison.

Right now, employers are bearing the brunt of the health care costs because they have to buy insurance for their employees.

I believe that big businesses and even the NFIB will eventually come to support the public option (and perhaps a single-payer system) once they realize that they can save money.

Arraya, I don’t forecast the economic collapse that you’re seeing. The US government can still borrow quite a bit before we hit crisis level. Public debt as a fraction of GDP is still very manageable.

If I were Obama I would give people a good dose of Reagan-like optimism and hope combined with spending, spending and spending (not on the military, but on the social programs for the poor and unemployed) without raising taxes on the middle-class. The economy will recover, real estate prices will increase nominally; and Obama will get reelected.

[briansd1]

Arraya, very good post.

I personally don’t believe in wide conspiracies (except the wide right-wing conspiracy, haha..) where a creator, at the top, controls the chain of events. In my opinion, the convergence of perceived interests cause political groups act in unison.

Right now, employers are bearing the brunt of the health care costs because they have to buy insurance for their employees.

I believe that big businesses and even the NFIB will eventually come to support the public option (and perhaps a single-payer system) once they realize that they can save money.

Arraya, I don’t forecast the economic collapse that you’re seeing. The US government can still borrow quite a bit before we hit crisis level. Public debt as a fraction of GDP is still very manageable.

If I were Obama I would give people a good dose of Reagan-like optimism and hope combined with spending, spending and spending (not on the military, but on the social programs for the poor and unemployed) without raising taxes on the middle-class. The economy will recover, real estate prices will increase nominally; and Obama will get reelected.

[briansd1]

Arraya, very good post.

I personally don’t believe in wide conspiracies (except the wide right-wing conspiracy, haha..) where a creator, at the top, controls the chain of events. In my opinion, the convergence of perceived interests cause political groups act in unison.

Right now, employers are bearing the brunt of the health care costs because they have to buy insurance for their employees.

I believe that big businesses and even the NFIB will eventually come to support the public option (and perhaps a single-payer system) once they realize that they can save money.

Arraya, I don’t forecast the economic collapse that you’re seeing. The US government can still borrow quite a bit before we hit crisis level. Public debt as a fraction of GDP is still very manageable.

If I were Obama I would give people a good dose of Reagan-like optimism and hope combined with spending, spending and spending (not on the military, but on the social programs for the poor and unemployed) without raising taxes on the middle-class. The economy will recover, real estate prices will increase nominally; and Obama will get reelected.

[jpinpb]

[quote=Arraya]We do not need health care reform, we need health insurance reform. 30-40% of all private health insurance premiums goes to overhead, admin costs, and profits for the insurance compani.[/quote]

I totally agree. Insurance companies play a major role in this and they suck up a lot of money. Devising a way around them would be ideal.

[jpinpb]

[quote=Arraya]We do not need health care reform, we need health insurance reform. 30-40% of all private health insurance premiums goes to overhead, admin costs, and profits for the insurance compani.[/quote]

I totally agree. Insurance companies play a major role in this and they suck up a lot of money. Devising a way around them would be ideal.

[jpinpb]

[quote=Arraya]We do not need health care reform, we need health insurance reform. 30-40% of all private health insurance premiums goes to overhead, admin costs, and profits for the insurance compani.[/quote]

I totally agree. Insurance companies play a major role in this and they suck up a lot of money. Devising a way around them would be ideal.

[jpinpb]

[quote=Arraya]We do not need health care reform, we need health insurance reform. 30-40% of all private health insurance premiums goes to overhead, admin costs, and profits for the insurance compani.[/quote]

I totally agree. Insurance companies play a major role in this and they suck up a lot of money. Devising a way around them would be ideal.

[Author]

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