Homeowner Bill of Rights

[an]

[quote=spdrun]Why should the average American family need to work two 45+ hr/week shifts just to make ends meet?[/quote]
You do not need to work 45+ hrs/week just to make ends meet. If you do, your “ends” is way too high and you need to reevaluate your expenditure. I know a family of 6 living on a single income and that income is just an electronic technician income as well. So you can’t get any more average than that. They bought their own home and they’re still able to save. So, no, you do not NEED to have 2 parents working 45+ hrs/week to make ends meet. You NEED to have 2 parents working 45+ hrs/ week to live a well above average life.

[spdrun]

Electronic technician? Depending on what exactly he’s troubleshooting, he could be making $50-100/hr. Perhaps more than an engineer — skilled tradesmen aren’t easy to come by.

[an]

[quote=spdrun]Electronic technician? Depending on what exactly he’s troubleshooting, he could be making $50-100/hr. Perhaps more than an engineer — skilled tradesmen aren’t easy to come by.[/quote]
Trust me, he’s far from that. My guess is, $50-75k/year. You’ll understand why I would guess that by just watching how they save/spend.

BTW, I’d like to see some data to back up the claim that an electronic technician with an AA degree make $100/hr in San Diego. I’m extremely skeptical to say the least. $100/hr is equivalent to over $200k/year. Even engineering directors don’t make that much. Maybe once you get to the VP level. Unless you’re talking about contractors making $100/hr with any benefits. But even then, that’s still hard to believe.

[briansd1]

[quote=spdrun]
What’s wrong with lower prices and less activity?
[/quote]

Poverty all around. Less jobs. Lower tax revenue. Less innovation. Less influence in the world.

Corporations develop their products and services for the largest market. Then they sell their products around the world. America enjoys the newest products because we are the largest market that nobody can ignore. If we lose that leadership, we will be buying second best.

[quote=spdrun]
This is actually my goal before I get married.[/quote]

Your plan might work for an individual or a family but not for the economy as a whole.

You’re from NY and you want the best for yourself, no? You want to travel and experience the best hotels and the best restaurants? Wait until your new bride and kids wants all the best also….

Are you sure anybody wants to marry you if you drive a 30yo car?

[no_such_reality]

[quote=briansd1]CA renter, its not about propping up banks and prices. It’s about keeping economic activity from falling off. By economic activity I mean the number of cars sold, the number of meals served at restaurants, etc…[/quote]

Letting it correct is what restarts the economic activity.

Everyone is forced to move on. Instead we have everyone, from business people to home owners just ‘hanging on’ waiting for it to return to what it was and it won’t.

We could have bottomed out 2 years ago. Home construction would have restarted, rehabbing the foreclosures would have been a two year boom, lots of people working, prices would be way down (probably another 20% from peak, maybe more).

Wages, probably would have gone up.

Rents would go down.

But instead, we have a stall that they keep pumping trying to keep in th stratosphere.

[spdrun]

Unless you’re talking about contractors making $100/hr with any benefits. But even then, that’s still hard to believe.

I said $50-100/hr, and yes, I could see a contractor making near $100/hr. At $150-200k/yr, benefits become sort of irrelevant, especially considering that mortgage and self employed health insurance are tax deductible.

Lastly, how do you know HOW he bought the house? He may have had money from other sources.

[spdrun]

Are you sure anybody wants to marry you if you drive a 30yo car?

In a place where only about 50% of people own a car, nobody asks what I drive.

As far as buying second best, that’s personally fine with me. There should be more to a country than the “best products.” Adequate leisure time. Time with family. Time to enjoy life. People are more than consumer-droids, required to buy the “first best.”

Slow down, jump off the rat wagon, and spook the horse so the wagon crashes into a ditch and kills the (slave)driver.

Full employment shouldn’t be a goal. ENOUGH employment so that anyone who genuinely wants to work can, should be that goal. Fortunately, as labor force participation declines, we’re actually headed that way. And lastly, the economy worked fine when there were a lot of families with one working parent.

[briansd1]

[quote=no_such_reality]
Letting it correct is what restarts the economic activity.
[/quote]

Rapid growth from a very bottom is actually worse than slower growth from a higher point. Remember that a hard crash throws millions of people into poverty.

Krugman was right once again.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/07/03/was-there-an-icelandic-miracle/

As you look at those charts of Europe, remember that in America, two years ago, we were back to pre crisis GDP and growing, thanks to government and central bank intervention.

[spdrun]

And I disagree. We’re up to a pre-crisis GDP only if you don’t adjust for inflation. What we’ve had is INFLATION in other things, combined with low housing prices.

In other words, a lot of Americans lost their shirts due to housing crashing. Now to add insult to injury, they’re paying 25% more for food, about the same for gas, more for energy, than before the crash.

Keep them on the treadmill, make sure they can’t save anything but are pressured by society into owning the latest and greatest.

[briansd1]

spdrun, NY is one of the most money concerned places I know.

A robust economy is good for everyone. People have the choice of participating only part-time. A robust economy provides more mobility and more job flexibility.

IMO, unless you have money from other sources to buy a house/coondo/coop in NY and otherwise enjoy the City, you won’t be able to meet a desirable partner. Not sure if your a man; but if you’re a man it will be even harder.

I’ll provide a example from SD to make it more relevant to other readers. If you drive a 1980 impala and live in Skyline, your marriage prospects are much more limited than if you drive a new Prius and live at UTC.

[an]

[quote=spdrun]

Unless you’re talking about contractors making $100/hr with any benefits. But even then, that’s still hard to believe.

I said $50-100/hr, and yes, I could see a contractor making near $100/hr. At $150-200k/yr, benefits become sort of irrelevant, especially considering that mortgage and self employed health insurance are tax deductible.

Lastly, how do you know HOW he bought the house? He may have had money from other sources.[/quote]
Proof please. It’s extremely unlikely for a technician to make $100/hr. around here, even as a contractor. Btw, he’s not a contractor.

I know because he’s family.

[spdrun]

briansd1 —

Already did – bought an apartment in 2009 🙂 Though buying isn’t necessarily the best thing in NY since rental cap tends to be 3-6% — i.e. you may be better off buying a rental in NJ and using it to pay your rent in NY. There’s no stigma in renting nor a huge push to become a homeowner.

NY is money-concerned, but in a very different way than San Diego. And at this point, I’m only interested in one person, so meeting someone isn’t an issue.

My point is that inflation doesn’t make a robust economy. It makes for slavery plain and simple. What’s been created over the past ~3 years is a false “rally” due to inflation, not a real recovery.

You’re correct. Not participating 100% is a choice, and one I have. I DON’T think it’s a choice for the majority of Americans, unfortunately. It’s either “get a job” and accept the 2 wks of vacation on bended knees, or not have an income.

[briansd1]

[quote=spdrun]briansd1 —

Already did – bought an apartment in 2009 🙂 Though buying isn’t necessarily the best thing in NY since rental cap tends to be 3-6% — i.e. you may be better off buying a rental in NJ and using it to pay your rent in NY. There’s no stigma in renting nor a huge push to become a homeowner.
[/quote]

Ha! NYC is the most real estate obsessed place in the country. More so than California.

It’s so expensive to buy in NYC that people are resigned to renting. So it’s an adaptive instinct more than anything.

It’s easy for you to say because you already own. You have built a nestegg so you want a slower pace. But that’s not what’s best for everyone else.

It’s like old people who already own their houses in San Diego and “want our SD of 30 years ago back”.

[quote=spdrun]
NY is money-concerned, but in a very different way than San Diego.
[/quote]

Like food, restaurants, cafes, fashion, and culture…. these are past-times that require constant cash flow and keeping up.

In San Diego, you can go hiking and enjoy the outdoors and those things do not cost any money.

[quote=spdrun]
And at this point, I’m only interested in one person, so meeting someone isn’t an issue.
[/quote]
That’s a personal choice…

But for people in general, getting married requires a job and money.

[quote=spdrun]
My point is that inflation doesn’t make a robust economy. It makes for slavery plain and simple. What’s been created over the past ~3 years is a false “rally” due to inflation, not a real recovery. [/quote]

spdrun, the GDP numbers are real GDP, not nominal.

As far as “get a job” and accept the 2 wks of vacation on bended knees, or not have an income, , that’s more true when the economy is stagnant.

When the economy is robust, people can quit their jobs and goof-off and easily get back into the job market.

My cousin who’s a software engineer in high demand has quit his job several times — to go on 6-month trip, to live on a farm outside of SF, etc… He’s planning to quit his job again to do music promoting. It helps that his bride to be is loaded and bought him a house, cash.

Funny how opportunities open up suddenly when you have money.

My point is that we need real GDP growth to provide opportunities to everyone.

My other point is that a hard collapse in economic output throws millions of people into poverty. We are better off to engineer a soft-landing, even if the trade-off is slower percentage growth; the argument being that YOY growth is not as important as the overall size of the economic pie.

[spdrun]

First, there are plenty of free/cheap things to do in NYC and just outside. You tend to find out about them if you live here for a while.

Second, are you really arguing that high prices in necessities (i.e. housing) are a good thing? I’d argue that genuine innovation and effort should be rewarded. 10% annual gain just for sitting on a house? Not so much. The bubble was an anomaly, and people who are asking to re-inflate the bubble don’t know what they’re asking for. Yeah, I’m looking to invest, but I’m looking for steady income properties, not flips. Flipping takes effort. Leasing provides a steady, predictable income to supplement the highs and lows of running a small business.

Lastly, define “real GDP” please. You’re assuming that the inflation numbers coming out of DC aren’t cooked. My point is that we have the worst of both worlds now. Remember the term “stagflation” in the 70s?

Speaking of cooking …

[briansd1]

spdrun, I don’t see government intervention as reinflatiing but as keeping economic output from fall off a cliff.

After a bubble there are only two ways of adjusting 1) inflation or 2) internal deflation.

As Krugman argued, inflation is a lot easier. Each person’s situation is different but we are talking in general here.

Sorry if the libertarian, anti central banker in you can’t see the logic.

BTW, If you do cheap things in NYC then you are not living the NY lifestyle.
In SD you can be a surfer bum and living the So Cal lifestyle. If you payoff your house in SD, you’re set.

[Author]

Posts