Home › Forums › Financial Markets/Economics › Good fact based WSJ article on who pays taxes in America
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no_such_reality.
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August 8, 2012 at 8:08 AM #749722August 8, 2012 at 8:20 AM #749723
CoronitaParticipant[quote=harvey][quote=flu]I don’t have issues with anyone trying to legally maneuver to pay less taxes.[/quote]
I don’t think anyone here is going to make an argument against that.
It’s been said here before: The issue comes down to who gets to define what actually is legal.
Offshore tax-havens may be legal, but that doesn’t mean they are a sound (or fair) fiscal policy.
I’m not sure we want someone who is a champion of such polices to be writing the rules.[/quote]
“Fairness” is subjective.
For instance I don’t think it’s “fair” to have public pensions continuing their unrealistic payouts at the expense of taxpayers, but that again is a fairly subjective opinion. Someone that collects a public pension would probably feel fairness means that they should continue the unrealistic promised returns.
Therefore, I guess the issue of “fairness” it can be only decided democratically, even if not a perfect system …
Yes, I do have a problem with paying more taxes. because no one else seems to want to do it too.
August 8, 2012 at 8:35 AM #749724sdrealtor
ParticipantFLU
Its more than “fairly hypocritical”. While one may not agree with the rules, one who pays closing costs outside of escrow to lower their assessed value is flouting the norms. They are able to do so because they are amongst theose wealthy enough to have cash to do so. Engaging in such behavior is done with the express intent of reducing their tax burden. Those same taxes that are used to support the very paycheck they live off of.In retrospect, isnt that the same person who called Eduardo Saverin a “greedy tax evader, and he should lose EVERYTHING if he tries to avoid paying taxes”. Just seems more than “fairly hypocritical”.
On a personal side, I dont have a problem with what either did. Both are operating within the letter of the law.
August 8, 2012 at 9:29 AM #749726ocrenter
Participant[quote=flu]
Lol… So you’re adopting my mantra that if you put equal number of republitards and democraps in office, they can’t agree on how to waste your money? Yeah, that’s my party line…
Question is. Who’s gonna control house and senate in upcoming elections. If it turns out to be a GOP thing, wouldn’t it make sense to keep ineffective-no-obamator in office, so we don’t get Bush era craziness again?[/quote]
Yup. I’m of the position that you get Romney in there, that’s akin to letting the fox in to guard the hen house. More spending programs for the very rich (disguised as tax cut).
biggest reason for Obama’s ineffectiveness is the GOP congress. But again, would rather see paralysis by the GOP rather than the Dems continue to spend like water.
I’m looking forward to additional impass which will allow the $1.2 trillion budget cut to actually take place.
August 8, 2012 at 9:49 AM #749728briansd1
Guest[quote=flu]”Fairness” is subjective. [/quote]
[quote=flu]Therefore, I guess the issue of “fairness” it can be only decided democratically, even if not a perfect system …[/quote]That’s why it’s very important to have policies that encourage everyone who is eligible to vote to turn out and vote.
Unfortunately, there is one side that constantly wants to limit voter turnout. You wonder what they have in mind.
August 8, 2012 at 9:51 AM #749727GuestBack to the original topic. I assume that we all agree that proportionality to population is a stupid argument.
Taxes should be proportional to economic benefits.
August 8, 2012 at 10:09 AM #749732Allan from Fallbrook
Participant[quote=harvey]
Otherwise quit being a crybaby.[/quote]Ah, the “Reichsminister Dr. Josef Goebbels Express” has arrived right on time and spewing its usual load of toxic spew and vitriol.
Pri, I ordinarily ignore you because you contribute absolute nothing to any of the various topics on which you “opine” and I use that word loosely, mind.
You cite erroneous “facts”, or change the meanings of words when caught out, or simply discharge ad hominem when you have no argument at all. On the last point, interestingly, you’re the first to cry foul when someone responds in kind, usually because you’ve driven the discourse, such as it is, into the toilet and pissed them off with your cheap tactics.
My point is here is simple: I refuse to add you to Ignore User because you’re simply not worth the bullet, but I’m also not going to respond, so take a hint and toddle off. You can save yourself an immense amount of time and not have to pen any more long-winded screeds to me.
Your obsession with me, which was weird before, has now moved into completely creepy.
August 8, 2012 at 10:33 AM #749736Anonymous
Guest[quote=ocrenter]biggest reason for Obama’s ineffectiveness is the GOP congress. But again, would rather see paralysis by the GOP rather than the Dems continue to spend like water.[/quote]
Although I see the appeal of the “paralysis” strategy (should we call it “balance”?), I think there may be some misconceptions in there.
First, the Dems aren’t the only ones that “spend like” water. Just look at the federal deficit trends of the past 20 years.
The “Tax and spend” Democrats meme is a myth, at least if we are using the phrase to contrast against the GOP. (To be fair, this is Allan’s point, pretty much the only point of substance he makes about the two parties.)
Paralysis/balance can generally be a good thing, but I don’t think now is the time for it. There are things that need to be done, and one party is determined to see that nothing is done (although that could change after they lose the presidency in November and the single-minded goal of one-term Obama becomes irrelevant.)
August 8, 2012 at 10:59 AM #749737Guest[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=harvey]
Otherwise quit being a crybaby.[/quote]Ah, the “Reichsminister Dr. Josef Goebbels Express” has arrived right on time and spewing its usual load of toxic spew and vitriol.
Pri, I ordinarily ignore you because you contribute absolute nothing to any of the various topics on which you “opine” and I use that word loosely, mind.
You cite erroneous “facts”, or change the meanings of words when caught out, or simply discharge ad hominem when you have no argument at all. On the last point, interestingly, you’re the first to cry foul when someone responds in kind, usually because you’ve driven the discourse, such as it is, into the toilet and pissed them off with your cheap tactics.
My point is here is simple: I refuse to add you to Ignore User because you’re simply not worth the bullet, but I’m also not going to respond, so take a hint and toddle off. You can save yourself an immense amount of time and not have to pen any more long-winded screeds to me.
Your obsession with me, which was weird before, has now moved into completely creepy.[/quote]
Dude, the Nazi thing is so worn out.
Obsession? Because I occasionally respond to your posts?
I do pick on you because your online persona is pure cowardice (note that I said “online persona” – not you personally.) Always attacking others – particularly Brian because you know he’s an easy target around here – but never having the guts to state your own views.
Nope, I don’t like cowards. I also don’t like people who have nothing to add to meaningful political discourse except cynical, unsubstantiated nonsense. Too bad that you find that to be “creepy.”
BTW, If my responses are “creepy,” then what’s the word for your obsession with Brian?
I don’t care if you respond to my critiques. Just because you don’t choose to back up your bullshit doesn’t make it any less bullshit.
(I would challenge you to cite just one of the “erroneous facts” you repeatedly claim I make, but why bother? It’s the typical form of the online coward – they never back up their claims. Phrases like “you’re not worth the bullet” are part of the standard repertoire of lame excuses.)
August 8, 2012 at 12:54 PM #749750GuestAs sdrealtor alluded to earlier, the more money one has, the more resources one can deploy to avoid taxes.
If you control your own company, you can do things such as turn ordinary income into capital gains, etc…
Here’s an good article on Romney and abusive tax shelters:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/08/opinion/canellos-kleinbard-romney-taxes/index.html?hpt=hp_c1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_BOSSAugust 8, 2012 at 1:11 PM #749751ParticipantI think we can all agree just because something is legal doesn’t make it right.
And to defend prior tax sheltering strategies as simply they were legal doesn’t make it any more right. All it does is highlight the point that ultimately, the elite make and play by their own rules.
August 8, 2012 at 1:24 PM #749752CoronitaParticipant[quote=ocrenter]I think we can all agree just because something is legal doesn’t make it right.
And to defend prior tax sheltering strategies as simply they were legal doesn’t make it any more right. All it does is highlight the point that ultimately, the elite make and play by their own rules.[/quote]
So do individual little people.
August 8, 2012 at 1:32 PM #749753Guest[quote=ocrenter]I think we can all agree just because something is legal doesn’t make it right. [/quote]
Clearly you are not a Penn State fan.
August 8, 2012 at 1:44 PM #749754mike92104
Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook][quote=harvey]
Otherwise quit being a crybaby.[/quote]Ah, the “Reichsminister Dr. Josef Goebbels Express” has arrived right on time and spewing its usual load of toxic spew and vitriol.
Pri, I ordinarily ignore you because you contribute absolute nothing to any of the various topics on which you “opine” and I use that word loosely, mind.
You cite erroneous “facts”, or change the meanings of words when caught out, or simply discharge ad hominem when you have no argument at all. On the last point, interestingly, you’re the first to cry foul when someone responds in kind, usually because you’ve driven the discourse, such as it is, into the toilet and pissed them off with your cheap tactics.
My point is here is simple: I refuse to add you to Ignore User because you’re simply not worth the bullet, but I’m also not going to respond, so take a hint and toddle off. You can save yourself an immense amount of time and not have to pen any more long-winded screeds to me.
Your obsession with me, which was weird before, has now moved into completely creepy.[/quote]
Right!? I’m surprised you’ve waited this long to respond. So strange to have someone single you out with a constant rant about how you never take a side or make an argument when, from what I have seen, you’re one of the most consistent people here. I’m completely amazed at the idiots that believe the Dems are some sort of heroes for the people that will save us all from the evil GOP which is trying to enslave us all. The simple fact is this: Politicians from both parties simply want to line their pockets with other peoples’ money. The Dems want to do it by taxing everyone in the name of “fairness” and the GOP wants to do it limiting what they have to pay in taxes.
August 8, 2012 at 2:19 PM #749755Guest[quote=mike92104]Right!? I’m surprised you’ve waited this long to respond. So strange to have someone single you out with a constant rant about how you never take a side or make an argument when, from what I have seen, you’re one of the most consistent people here. I’m completely amazed at the idiots that believe the Dems are some sort of heroes for the people that will save us all from the evil GOP which is trying to enslave us all. The simple fact is this: Politicians from both parties simply want to line their pockets with other peoples’ money. The Dems want to do it by taxing everyone in the name of “fairness” and the GOP wants to do it limiting what they have to pay in taxes.[/quote]
Wow, that was productive. It’s now perfectly clear how we should cast our votes. Thanks for the insightful “everybody sucks” analysis.
As for consistency, you are spot on: Allan consistently supports no candidate and advocates no specific policies, while consistently disparaging the opinions of others.
No?
Provide an example where he’s supported anything or anybody.
[quote] I’m completely amazed at the idiots that believe the Dems are some sort of heroes for the people that will save us all from the evil GOP which is trying to enslave us all.[/quote]
BTW, we have a new record for “weakest strawman” on this thread. Didn’t take long.
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