Getting RE License for Myself

[XBoxBoy]

[quote=urbanrealtor]I would probably approach the buyer agent first and not bother with the listing agent. Were it me, as the listing agent, I think it would start on the wrong foot to be asked to be the only pro and give up the cbb.[/quote]

I can certainly see your point, and I think whatever a buyer did, they would have to be diplomatic about it. In a case that got me writing the start of this thread, I had a number of conversations with the seller before ever talking to the seller’s agent. Then when I did talk to the seller’s agent, I first offered that they would be the broker for both, and asked if they would reduce commission or rebate commission, given that the seller and I found ourselves without the agent. At the same time, I offered the opinion, that for tax reasons the lower the purchase price the better for me, so rebating to the seller would be more beneficial than rebating to me. The agent understood this and was open to it. But by no means do I expect all agents to be open to this, and specifics of the deal were never fully defined.

But to come back to what I’ve learned from this thread, there are lots of variables and “angles” on the real estate commissions. If you want to do something different than the typical commission split between a seller’s agent and a buyer’s agent, you’re going to have to take a lot of peoples concerns (stakes) into account, you’re going to have to be diplomatic, and you’re going to have to creative in your negotiations. And yes after all that, you might just be better off to go straight to a discount broker and just use them having them rebate the commission back to you. (Redfin advertises that it will rebate 2/3rds of the buyer’s agent commission back to the buyer, so not sure how much better you’ll do on your own. And let’s not forget that others might also give 2/3rd back or maybe a different/better deal.)

[XBoxBoy]

[quote=Rustico]If you care more about the deal an agent who will drop low balls and bargain hunt could save you more.[/quote]

Hmmmm…. not sure I agree. I’m sure there are some agents out there that will help you get the best deal possible. But from my experience over the last couple of years, (looking in La Jolla mind you) is that all the agents out there are not interested in me getting a deal, just in me signing on the dotted line so they can make their commission. Sorry to be so cynical, but that’s just what I’ve felt. And as for negotiating, I’ve yet to encounter an agent that gives good advice/strategy about negotiating.

For a while I was working with a buyer’s agent, and one day she showed me a house I thought had potential. I asked her, “What do you think is the best strategy to get the seller to come down in price?” She looked at me with a befuddled look (as if I was clearly out of my mind) and said, “I’m not sure what you mean, but if you like the house, then we should write up an offer for the asking price and hope they take it.” Needless to say, I stopped working with that agent.

I’m not sure I’d follow your suggestion to bid out the rebate on craigslist, but I do think it’s a darn interesting idea, that’s for sure.

[XBoxBoy]

[quote=Rustico]If you care more about the deal an agent who will drop low balls and bargain hunt could save you more.[/quote]

Hmmmm…. not sure I agree. I’m sure there are some agents out there that will help you get the best deal possible. But from my experience over the last couple of years, (looking in La Jolla mind you) is that all the agents out there are not interested in me getting a deal, just in me signing on the dotted line so they can make their commission. Sorry to be so cynical, but that’s just what I’ve felt. And as for negotiating, I’ve yet to encounter an agent that gives good advice/strategy about negotiating.

For a while I was working with a buyer’s agent, and one day she showed me a house I thought had potential. I asked her, “What do you think is the best strategy to get the seller to come down in price?” She looked at me with a befuddled look (as if I was clearly out of my mind) and said, “I’m not sure what you mean, but if you like the house, then we should write up an offer for the asking price and hope they take it.” Needless to say, I stopped working with that agent.

I’m not sure I’d follow your suggestion to bid out the rebate on craigslist, but I do think it’s a darn interesting idea, that’s for sure.

[XBoxBoy]

[quote=Rustico]If you care more about the deal an agent who will drop low balls and bargain hunt could save you more.[/quote]

Hmmmm…. not sure I agree. I’m sure there are some agents out there that will help you get the best deal possible. But from my experience over the last couple of years, (looking in La Jolla mind you) is that all the agents out there are not interested in me getting a deal, just in me signing on the dotted line so they can make their commission. Sorry to be so cynical, but that’s just what I’ve felt. And as for negotiating, I’ve yet to encounter an agent that gives good advice/strategy about negotiating.

For a while I was working with a buyer’s agent, and one day she showed me a house I thought had potential. I asked her, “What do you think is the best strategy to get the seller to come down in price?” She looked at me with a befuddled look (as if I was clearly out of my mind) and said, “I’m not sure what you mean, but if you like the house, then we should write up an offer for the asking price and hope they take it.” Needless to say, I stopped working with that agent.

I’m not sure I’d follow your suggestion to bid out the rebate on craigslist, but I do think it’s a darn interesting idea, that’s for sure.

[XBoxBoy]

[quote=Rustico]If you care more about the deal an agent who will drop low balls and bargain hunt could save you more.[/quote]

Hmmmm…. not sure I agree. I’m sure there are some agents out there that will help you get the best deal possible. But from my experience over the last couple of years, (looking in La Jolla mind you) is that all the agents out there are not interested in me getting a deal, just in me signing on the dotted line so they can make their commission. Sorry to be so cynical, but that’s just what I’ve felt. And as for negotiating, I’ve yet to encounter an agent that gives good advice/strategy about negotiating.

For a while I was working with a buyer’s agent, and one day she showed me a house I thought had potential. I asked her, “What do you think is the best strategy to get the seller to come down in price?” She looked at me with a befuddled look (as if I was clearly out of my mind) and said, “I’m not sure what you mean, but if you like the house, then we should write up an offer for the asking price and hope they take it.” Needless to say, I stopped working with that agent.

I’m not sure I’d follow your suggestion to bid out the rebate on craigslist, but I do think it’s a darn interesting idea, that’s for sure.

[XBoxBoy]

[quote=Rustico]If you care more about the deal an agent who will drop low balls and bargain hunt could save you more.[/quote]

Hmmmm…. not sure I agree. I’m sure there are some agents out there that will help you get the best deal possible. But from my experience over the last couple of years, (looking in La Jolla mind you) is that all the agents out there are not interested in me getting a deal, just in me signing on the dotted line so they can make their commission. Sorry to be so cynical, but that’s just what I’ve felt. And as for negotiating, I’ve yet to encounter an agent that gives good advice/strategy about negotiating.

For a while I was working with a buyer’s agent, and one day she showed me a house I thought had potential. I asked her, “What do you think is the best strategy to get the seller to come down in price?” She looked at me with a befuddled look (as if I was clearly out of my mind) and said, “I’m not sure what you mean, but if you like the house, then we should write up an offer for the asking price and hope they take it.” Needless to say, I stopped working with that agent.

I’m not sure I’d follow your suggestion to bid out the rebate on craigslist, but I do think it’s a darn interesting idea, that’s for sure.

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=XBoxBoy]

For a while I was working with a buyer’s agent, and one day she showed me a house I thought had potential. I asked her, “What do you think is the best strategy to get the seller to come down in price?” She looked at me with a befuddled look (as if I was clearly out of my mind) and said, “I’m not sure what you mean, but if you like the house, then we should write up an offer for the asking price and hope they take it.” Needless to say, I stopped working with that agent.
[/quote]

Again, not to be dense but there are only a few strategies to get people to come down in price. Probably the only reliable one that I am aware of is to try to compensate for one crappy term by improving the other terms. For example I closed one on 30th that had asked 730 and come down to 630 over the course of 4 months. We offered 530 at 50% cash and 2 weeks of escrow. The implication of the offer as written was that the buyer is super qualified, motivated, and that the seller would not have to make another payment. They countered on price only and we got it for 545.

Unless one has the capacity to offer attractive compensating terms, there is not a lot of strategy that I am aware of. Most of the strategies that I have seen (eg some of the “formulas” for offering on REO’s) are total crap and not useful. This is an observation of my experience. Have others had experiences that they would like to share?

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=XBoxBoy]

For a while I was working with a buyer’s agent, and one day she showed me a house I thought had potential. I asked her, “What do you think is the best strategy to get the seller to come down in price?” She looked at me with a befuddled look (as if I was clearly out of my mind) and said, “I’m not sure what you mean, but if you like the house, then we should write up an offer for the asking price and hope they take it.” Needless to say, I stopped working with that agent.
[/quote]

Again, not to be dense but there are only a few strategies to get people to come down in price. Probably the only reliable one that I am aware of is to try to compensate for one crappy term by improving the other terms. For example I closed one on 30th that had asked 730 and come down to 630 over the course of 4 months. We offered 530 at 50% cash and 2 weeks of escrow. The implication of the offer as written was that the buyer is super qualified, motivated, and that the seller would not have to make another payment. They countered on price only and we got it for 545.

Unless one has the capacity to offer attractive compensating terms, there is not a lot of strategy that I am aware of. Most of the strategies that I have seen (eg some of the “formulas” for offering on REO’s) are total crap and not useful. This is an observation of my experience. Have others had experiences that they would like to share?

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=XBoxBoy]

For a while I was working with a buyer’s agent, and one day she showed me a house I thought had potential. I asked her, “What do you think is the best strategy to get the seller to come down in price?” She looked at me with a befuddled look (as if I was clearly out of my mind) and said, “I’m not sure what you mean, but if you like the house, then we should write up an offer for the asking price and hope they take it.” Needless to say, I stopped working with that agent.
[/quote]

Again, not to be dense but there are only a few strategies to get people to come down in price. Probably the only reliable one that I am aware of is to try to compensate for one crappy term by improving the other terms. For example I closed one on 30th that had asked 730 and come down to 630 over the course of 4 months. We offered 530 at 50% cash and 2 weeks of escrow. The implication of the offer as written was that the buyer is super qualified, motivated, and that the seller would not have to make another payment. They countered on price only and we got it for 545.

Unless one has the capacity to offer attractive compensating terms, there is not a lot of strategy that I am aware of. Most of the strategies that I have seen (eg some of the “formulas” for offering on REO’s) are total crap and not useful. This is an observation of my experience. Have others had experiences that they would like to share?

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=XBoxBoy]

For a while I was working with a buyer’s agent, and one day she showed me a house I thought had potential. I asked her, “What do you think is the best strategy to get the seller to come down in price?” She looked at me with a befuddled look (as if I was clearly out of my mind) and said, “I’m not sure what you mean, but if you like the house, then we should write up an offer for the asking price and hope they take it.” Needless to say, I stopped working with that agent.
[/quote]

Again, not to be dense but there are only a few strategies to get people to come down in price. Probably the only reliable one that I am aware of is to try to compensate for one crappy term by improving the other terms. For example I closed one on 30th that had asked 730 and come down to 630 over the course of 4 months. We offered 530 at 50% cash and 2 weeks of escrow. The implication of the offer as written was that the buyer is super qualified, motivated, and that the seller would not have to make another payment. They countered on price only and we got it for 545.

Unless one has the capacity to offer attractive compensating terms, there is not a lot of strategy that I am aware of. Most of the strategies that I have seen (eg some of the “formulas” for offering on REO’s) are total crap and not useful. This is an observation of my experience. Have others had experiences that they would like to share?

[urbanrealtor]

[quote=XBoxBoy]

For a while I was working with a buyer’s agent, and one day she showed me a house I thought had potential. I asked her, “What do you think is the best strategy to get the seller to come down in price?” She looked at me with a befuddled look (as if I was clearly out of my mind) and said, “I’m not sure what you mean, but if you like the house, then we should write up an offer for the asking price and hope they take it.” Needless to say, I stopped working with that agent.
[/quote]

Again, not to be dense but there are only a few strategies to get people to come down in price. Probably the only reliable one that I am aware of is to try to compensate for one crappy term by improving the other terms. For example I closed one on 30th that had asked 730 and come down to 630 over the course of 4 months. We offered 530 at 50% cash and 2 weeks of escrow. The implication of the offer as written was that the buyer is super qualified, motivated, and that the seller would not have to make another payment. They countered on price only and we got it for 545.

Unless one has the capacity to offer attractive compensating terms, there is not a lot of strategy that I am aware of. Most of the strategies that I have seen (eg some of the “formulas” for offering on REO’s) are total crap and not useful. This is an observation of my experience. Have others had experiences that they would like to share?

[XBoxBoy]

[quote=urbanrealtor]
Again, not to be dense but there are only a few strategies to get people to come down in price. [/quote]

We might be arguing over what we mean by strategies, but in negotiations, there are often a number of strategies that can be used. First and foremost, try to find out what is important to the seller. Price might not be the only thing. They might be strongly in need of a short escrow, or maybe that doesn’t matter much. Maybe they want no fix ups, or contingencies. Finding out what they want and trying to trade those items for a lower price is always a first step.

Second, if you want to drive a low price you need to think about how low you want to go in at. If you go too low, you can insult them, not go low enough and you won’t get as good a deal as you might have. Trying to get a sense of how motivated they are can be helpful. Another consideration on this path, is how long to let the offer stand. I made an offer years ago, just when the market was starting to have bidding wars, that was good for only 2 hours. It was a good offer, but it didn’t allow the sellers time to get other offers to compare. They had to take mine or know that I might be gone. (They took it btw and the sale went through)

A third thing that comes to mind whenever negotiating is to show some of your cards to build trust and rapport. But which cards? Therein lies the strategy.

A fourth technique used in business negotiations, is to try and establish multiple fronts. Good cop/Bad cop being the most well known one. But there are other ways to set up multiple fronts.

Another thing that I’ve seen done is for the offer to be “presented”. In this case, the offer was not merely faxed from one agent to the other. The buyer’s agent put together a variety of printouts, comps, market overview, and then details of the offer and asked to make a presentation to the sellers themselves, (with the seller’s agent present) Think of it as a marketing presentation. While this might not always be that helpful, in a market with lots of offers it helps to distinguish your offer. (Maybe not relevant now, but would have been several years ago)

Okay, so those are just a few strategies that come off the top of my head spur of the moment. There are more to be sure. And each negotiation presents and opportunity to develop its own strategies.

The tough part here is that most agents aren’t familiar enough with negotiation techniques, and are afraid of them. Consequently, they do everything they can to keep you from sellers and to let you know nothing for fear of giving you some kind of advantage that you will manipulate them with. It’s too bad, because while there is some info that should be kept confidential or close to the chest, there is other info that when shared can help a seller get an offer that is more attractive to them. I guess my experience (albeit mostly non-real estate business negotiations) has shown me that the best deals involve a good bit of strategy and a good bit of information sharing.

So, sorry, but I disagree. There is lots to negotiating, and despite the reluctance of agents to allow negotiating, there are definitely strategies that can and should be employed in any negotiation. And in my book, any buyer’s agent who thinks the only strategy is to make a full price offer and hope they’ll accept it isn’t doing their job.

Just my two cents though,

XBoxBoy

ps. not aware of any of the REO formula strategies you mention so can’t comment on them.

[XBoxBoy]

[quote=urbanrealtor]
Again, not to be dense but there are only a few strategies to get people to come down in price. [/quote]

We might be arguing over what we mean by strategies, but in negotiations, there are often a number of strategies that can be used. First and foremost, try to find out what is important to the seller. Price might not be the only thing. They might be strongly in need of a short escrow, or maybe that doesn’t matter much. Maybe they want no fix ups, or contingencies. Finding out what they want and trying to trade those items for a lower price is always a first step.

Second, if you want to drive a low price you need to think about how low you want to go in at. If you go too low, you can insult them, not go low enough and you won’t get as good a deal as you might have. Trying to get a sense of how motivated they are can be helpful. Another consideration on this path, is how long to let the offer stand. I made an offer years ago, just when the market was starting to have bidding wars, that was good for only 2 hours. It was a good offer, but it didn’t allow the sellers time to get other offers to compare. They had to take mine or know that I might be gone. (They took it btw and the sale went through)

A third thing that comes to mind whenever negotiating is to show some of your cards to build trust and rapport. But which cards? Therein lies the strategy.

A fourth technique used in business negotiations, is to try and establish multiple fronts. Good cop/Bad cop being the most well known one. But there are other ways to set up multiple fronts.

Another thing that I’ve seen done is for the offer to be “presented”. In this case, the offer was not merely faxed from one agent to the other. The buyer’s agent put together a variety of printouts, comps, market overview, and then details of the offer and asked to make a presentation to the sellers themselves, (with the seller’s agent present) Think of it as a marketing presentation. While this might not always be that helpful, in a market with lots of offers it helps to distinguish your offer. (Maybe not relevant now, but would have been several years ago)

Okay, so those are just a few strategies that come off the top of my head spur of the moment. There are more to be sure. And each negotiation presents and opportunity to develop its own strategies.

The tough part here is that most agents aren’t familiar enough with negotiation techniques, and are afraid of them. Consequently, they do everything they can to keep you from sellers and to let you know nothing for fear of giving you some kind of advantage that you will manipulate them with. It’s too bad, because while there is some info that should be kept confidential or close to the chest, there is other info that when shared can help a seller get an offer that is more attractive to them. I guess my experience (albeit mostly non-real estate business negotiations) has shown me that the best deals involve a good bit of strategy and a good bit of information sharing.

So, sorry, but I disagree. There is lots to negotiating, and despite the reluctance of agents to allow negotiating, there are definitely strategies that can and should be employed in any negotiation. And in my book, any buyer’s agent who thinks the only strategy is to make a full price offer and hope they’ll accept it isn’t doing their job.

Just my two cents though,

XBoxBoy

ps. not aware of any of the REO formula strategies you mention so can’t comment on them.

[XBoxBoy]

[quote=urbanrealtor]
Again, not to be dense but there are only a few strategies to get people to come down in price. [/quote]

We might be arguing over what we mean by strategies, but in negotiations, there are often a number of strategies that can be used. First and foremost, try to find out what is important to the seller. Price might not be the only thing. They might be strongly in need of a short escrow, or maybe that doesn’t matter much. Maybe they want no fix ups, or contingencies. Finding out what they want and trying to trade those items for a lower price is always a first step.

Second, if you want to drive a low price you need to think about how low you want to go in at. If you go too low, you can insult them, not go low enough and you won’t get as good a deal as you might have. Trying to get a sense of how motivated they are can be helpful. Another consideration on this path, is how long to let the offer stand. I made an offer years ago, just when the market was starting to have bidding wars, that was good for only 2 hours. It was a good offer, but it didn’t allow the sellers time to get other offers to compare. They had to take mine or know that I might be gone. (They took it btw and the sale went through)

A third thing that comes to mind whenever negotiating is to show some of your cards to build trust and rapport. But which cards? Therein lies the strategy.

A fourth technique used in business negotiations, is to try and establish multiple fronts. Good cop/Bad cop being the most well known one. But there are other ways to set up multiple fronts.

Another thing that I’ve seen done is for the offer to be “presented”. In this case, the offer was not merely faxed from one agent to the other. The buyer’s agent put together a variety of printouts, comps, market overview, and then details of the offer and asked to make a presentation to the sellers themselves, (with the seller’s agent present) Think of it as a marketing presentation. While this might not always be that helpful, in a market with lots of offers it helps to distinguish your offer. (Maybe not relevant now, but would have been several years ago)

Okay, so those are just a few strategies that come off the top of my head spur of the moment. There are more to be sure. And each negotiation presents and opportunity to develop its own strategies.

The tough part here is that most agents aren’t familiar enough with negotiation techniques, and are afraid of them. Consequently, they do everything they can to keep you from sellers and to let you know nothing for fear of giving you some kind of advantage that you will manipulate them with. It’s too bad, because while there is some info that should be kept confidential or close to the chest, there is other info that when shared can help a seller get an offer that is more attractive to them. I guess my experience (albeit mostly non-real estate business negotiations) has shown me that the best deals involve a good bit of strategy and a good bit of information sharing.

So, sorry, but I disagree. There is lots to negotiating, and despite the reluctance of agents to allow negotiating, there are definitely strategies that can and should be employed in any negotiation. And in my book, any buyer’s agent who thinks the only strategy is to make a full price offer and hope they’ll accept it isn’t doing their job.

Just my two cents though,

XBoxBoy

ps. not aware of any of the REO formula strategies you mention so can’t comment on them.

[XBoxBoy]

[quote=urbanrealtor]
Again, not to be dense but there are only a few strategies to get people to come down in price. [/quote]

We might be arguing over what we mean by strategies, but in negotiations, there are often a number of strategies that can be used. First and foremost, try to find out what is important to the seller. Price might not be the only thing. They might be strongly in need of a short escrow, or maybe that doesn’t matter much. Maybe they want no fix ups, or contingencies. Finding out what they want and trying to trade those items for a lower price is always a first step.

Second, if you want to drive a low price you need to think about how low you want to go in at. If you go too low, you can insult them, not go low enough and you won’t get as good a deal as you might have. Trying to get a sense of how motivated they are can be helpful. Another consideration on this path, is how long to let the offer stand. I made an offer years ago, just when the market was starting to have bidding wars, that was good for only 2 hours. It was a good offer, but it didn’t allow the sellers time to get other offers to compare. They had to take mine or know that I might be gone. (They took it btw and the sale went through)

A third thing that comes to mind whenever negotiating is to show some of your cards to build trust and rapport. But which cards? Therein lies the strategy.

A fourth technique used in business negotiations, is to try and establish multiple fronts. Good cop/Bad cop being the most well known one. But there are other ways to set up multiple fronts.

Another thing that I’ve seen done is for the offer to be “presented”. In this case, the offer was not merely faxed from one agent to the other. The buyer’s agent put together a variety of printouts, comps, market overview, and then details of the offer and asked to make a presentation to the sellers themselves, (with the seller’s agent present) Think of it as a marketing presentation. While this might not always be that helpful, in a market with lots of offers it helps to distinguish your offer. (Maybe not relevant now, but would have been several years ago)

Okay, so those are just a few strategies that come off the top of my head spur of the moment. There are more to be sure. And each negotiation presents and opportunity to develop its own strategies.

The tough part here is that most agents aren’t familiar enough with negotiation techniques, and are afraid of them. Consequently, they do everything they can to keep you from sellers and to let you know nothing for fear of giving you some kind of advantage that you will manipulate them with. It’s too bad, because while there is some info that should be kept confidential or close to the chest, there is other info that when shared can help a seller get an offer that is more attractive to them. I guess my experience (albeit mostly non-real estate business negotiations) has shown me that the best deals involve a good bit of strategy and a good bit of information sharing.

So, sorry, but I disagree. There is lots to negotiating, and despite the reluctance of agents to allow negotiating, there are definitely strategies that can and should be employed in any negotiation. And in my book, any buyer’s agent who thinks the only strategy is to make a full price offer and hope they’ll accept it isn’t doing their job.

Just my two cents though,

XBoxBoy

ps. not aware of any of the REO formula strategies you mention so can’t comment on them.

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