Ex-in-laws (3rd party creditors) want to foreclose on my condo

[sdrealtor]

Mostly good information from BG on the legal issues. She really knows her stuff in that dept.

The one thing she isnt aware of is there may be a refi program for you. Under the Obama Making Home Affordable program, refinancing is available to those with little or no equity. All the big banks offer it and you should look into it. There is a good chance the fact that you have a 2nd with your ex-in-laws which may disqualify you but you should look into it. Here is a link to WF program. :Like I said, dont know if it will work but worth checking into:

https://www.wellsfargo.com/homeassist/refinance

[frenchlambda]

Thanks guys for all the info.
That’s a lot of stuff here and I am still trying to process some of it.

Here is some answers:

[quote=bearishgurl]
In essence, what you did here was agree to pay back the $200K (half of which was your ex’s debt) for $10K in “equity.” This is not even enough to pay a RE commission to a broker to sell it
[/quote]
That’s one way to see the problem but I see it a different way.
After the divorce, we only had 2 choices:
1) Sell the condo, reimburse both loans and split whatever is left which in this case would have been nothing (we would have just break even after closing costs)
2) One party keeps the property. The other party is out of the title and no longer liable for any debts associated with the property.

We went with option #2 because it made sense to me to keep the condo. It is normal that it becomes my sole responsibility to reimburse the $200k loan.

[quote=ucodegen]
Since you mentioned $85k as your 75% into the down from pre-marriage assets, that means that she brought in 25% or about $28K?
[/quote]

It is actually a little more complex.
The purchase price of the condo including closing costs was about $490k.
We took a $145k loan with BofA, $200k with in-laws and $145k down payment.
The down-payment amount was “assembled” as follow:
– $85k came from me as pre-marriage money
– $60k came from our joint saving account
So theoretically I put $115k down and she put $30k

[quote=ucodegen]
There is an interesting quirk in the “stipulation and order” in that you may still have a right to have the $85K reimbursed.
The way it was written does not tie it to the value of the property(condo),
[/quote]
Sure the way it was written does not tie it the property. But when tracing this money, it becomes obvious that it was.

[quote=bearishgurl]
On second thought, how about doing this right away, since you have the proof for $85K? Get the judgment against your ex ASAP. Then file the abstract and obtain your writ of execution. When her employer is served and calls her into HR, she will likely complain to her parents about it.
[/quote]
Frankly I am not sure why everyone here talks about these $85k.
First of all, my ex-parents have nothing to do with that.
Secondly, this is money that served as a down-payment and the equity in the house is gone.
If I had bought a $50k car for both myself and my wife with pre-marriage money and then crashed a car into a wall resulting in a total loss, would I get $50k back from my wife after divorce? Obviously not.
The loss of the car is an analogy to the loss of value in the real estate property. The value is gone so there is nothing for me to claim.

[quote=bearishgurl]
frenchlambda, if you currently owe $330K on the condo and it is only worth $340K, I don’t see how you can successfully refinance. Your condo would have to be worth $412,500 in order to qualify it for a $330K loan at 80% LTV. It could be several years (if at all) before this happens
[/quote]
The question for me is not how much the condo should be worth to refinance. The question is how much extra money do I need to bring on the table to afford to refinance.
The condo is worth $340. I am approved for a $272k loan. I owe $330k. So I need an extra $58k + closing costs. I have a little over $30k in cash. Therefore I need an extra $30k.
Someone launched the idea of reimbursing $170k to the in-laws and keeping a $30k loan with them. That seems like a good plan. Let’s see what they say about that.

[quote=bearishgurl]
frenchlambda, did your ex sign a quitclaim deed on the condo over to you?
[/quote]
I don’t believe so. I would need to be aware of this, right? I mean, can she sign one without getting my signature too?

[frenchlambda]

Thanks guys for all the info.
That’s a lot of stuff here and I am still trying to process some of it.

Here is some answers:

[quote=bearishgurl]
In essence, what you did here was agree to pay back the $200K (half of which was your ex’s debt) for $10K in “equity.” This is not even enough to pay a RE commission to a broker to sell it
[/quote]
That’s one way to see the problem but I see it a different way.
After the divorce, we only had 2 choices:
1) Sell the condo, reimburse both loans and split whatever is left which in this case would have been nothing (we would have just break even after closing costs)
2) One party keeps the property. The other party is out of the title and no longer liable for any debts associated with the property.

We went with option #2 because it made sense to me to keep the condo. It is normal that it becomes my sole responsibility to reimburse the $200k loan.

[quote=ucodegen]
Since you mentioned $85k as your 75% into the down from pre-marriage assets, that means that she brought in 25% or about $28K?
[/quote]

It is actually a little more complex.
The purchase price of the condo including closing costs was about $490k.
We took a $145k loan with BofA, $200k with in-laws and $145k down payment.
The down-payment amount was “assembled” as follow:
– $85k came from me as pre-marriage money
– $60k came from our joint saving account
So theoretically I put $115k down and she put $30k

[quote=ucodegen]
There is an interesting quirk in the “stipulation and order” in that you may still have a right to have the $85K reimbursed.
The way it was written does not tie it to the value of the property(condo),
[/quote]
Sure the way it was written does not tie it the property. But when tracing this money, it becomes obvious that it was.

[quote=bearishgurl]
On second thought, how about doing this right away, since you have the proof for $85K? Get the judgment against your ex ASAP. Then file the abstract and obtain your writ of execution. When her employer is served and calls her into HR, she will likely complain to her parents about it.
[/quote]
Frankly I am not sure why everyone here talks about these $85k.
First of all, my ex-parents have nothing to do with that.
Secondly, this is money that served as a down-payment and the equity in the house is gone.
If I had bought a $50k car for both myself and my wife with pre-marriage money and then crashed a car into a wall resulting in a total loss, would I get $50k back from my wife after divorce? Obviously not.
The loss of the car is an analogy to the loss of value in the real estate property. The value is gone so there is nothing for me to claim.

[quote=bearishgurl]
frenchlambda, if you currently owe $330K on the condo and it is only worth $340K, I don’t see how you can successfully refinance. Your condo would have to be worth $412,500 in order to qualify it for a $330K loan at 80% LTV. It could be several years (if at all) before this happens
[/quote]
The question for me is not how much the condo should be worth to refinance. The question is how much extra money do I need to bring on the table to afford to refinance.
The condo is worth $340. I am approved for a $272k loan. I owe $330k. So I need an extra $58k + closing costs. I have a little over $30k in cash. Therefore I need an extra $30k.
Someone launched the idea of reimbursing $170k to the in-laws and keeping a $30k loan with them. That seems like a good plan. Let’s see what they say about that.

[quote=bearishgurl]
frenchlambda, did your ex sign a quitclaim deed on the condo over to you?
[/quote]
I don’t believe so. I would need to be aware of this, right? I mean, can she sign one without getting my signature too?

[frenchlambda]

Thanks guys for all the info.
That’s a lot of stuff here and I am still trying to process some of it.

Here is some answers:

[quote=bearishgurl]
In essence, what you did here was agree to pay back the $200K (half of which was your ex’s debt) for $10K in “equity.” This is not even enough to pay a RE commission to a broker to sell it
[/quote]
That’s one way to see the problem but I see it a different way.
After the divorce, we only had 2 choices:
1) Sell the condo, reimburse both loans and split whatever is left which in this case would have been nothing (we would have just break even after closing costs)
2) One party keeps the property. The other party is out of the title and no longer liable for any debts associated with the property.

We went with option #2 because it made sense to me to keep the condo. It is normal that it becomes my sole responsibility to reimburse the $200k loan.

[quote=ucodegen]
Since you mentioned $85k as your 75% into the down from pre-marriage assets, that means that she brought in 25% or about $28K?
[/quote]

It is actually a little more complex.
The purchase price of the condo including closing costs was about $490k.
We took a $145k loan with BofA, $200k with in-laws and $145k down payment.
The down-payment amount was “assembled” as follow:
– $85k came from me as pre-marriage money
– $60k came from our joint saving account
So theoretically I put $115k down and she put $30k

[quote=ucodegen]
There is an interesting quirk in the “stipulation and order” in that you may still have a right to have the $85K reimbursed.
The way it was written does not tie it to the value of the property(condo),
[/quote]
Sure the way it was written does not tie it the property. But when tracing this money, it becomes obvious that it was.

[quote=bearishgurl]
On second thought, how about doing this right away, since you have the proof for $85K? Get the judgment against your ex ASAP. Then file the abstract and obtain your writ of execution. When her employer is served and calls her into HR, she will likely complain to her parents about it.
[/quote]
Frankly I am not sure why everyone here talks about these $85k.
First of all, my ex-parents have nothing to do with that.
Secondly, this is money that served as a down-payment and the equity in the house is gone.
If I had bought a $50k car for both myself and my wife with pre-marriage money and then crashed a car into a wall resulting in a total loss, would I get $50k back from my wife after divorce? Obviously not.
The loss of the car is an analogy to the loss of value in the real estate property. The value is gone so there is nothing for me to claim.

[quote=bearishgurl]
frenchlambda, if you currently owe $330K on the condo and it is only worth $340K, I don’t see how you can successfully refinance. Your condo would have to be worth $412,500 in order to qualify it for a $330K loan at 80% LTV. It could be several years (if at all) before this happens
[/quote]
The question for me is not how much the condo should be worth to refinance. The question is how much extra money do I need to bring on the table to afford to refinance.
The condo is worth $340. I am approved for a $272k loan. I owe $330k. So I need an extra $58k + closing costs. I have a little over $30k in cash. Therefore I need an extra $30k.
Someone launched the idea of reimbursing $170k to the in-laws and keeping a $30k loan with them. That seems like a good plan. Let’s see what they say about that.

[quote=bearishgurl]
frenchlambda, did your ex sign a quitclaim deed on the condo over to you?
[/quote]
I don’t believe so. I would need to be aware of this, right? I mean, can she sign one without getting my signature too?

[frenchlambda]

Thanks guys for all the info.
That’s a lot of stuff here and I am still trying to process some of it.

Here is some answers:

[quote=bearishgurl]
In essence, what you did here was agree to pay back the $200K (half of which was your ex’s debt) for $10K in “equity.” This is not even enough to pay a RE commission to a broker to sell it
[/quote]
That’s one way to see the problem but I see it a different way.
After the divorce, we only had 2 choices:
1) Sell the condo, reimburse both loans and split whatever is left which in this case would have been nothing (we would have just break even after closing costs)
2) One party keeps the property. The other party is out of the title and no longer liable for any debts associated with the property.

We went with option #2 because it made sense to me to keep the condo. It is normal that it becomes my sole responsibility to reimburse the $200k loan.

[quote=ucodegen]
Since you mentioned $85k as your 75% into the down from pre-marriage assets, that means that she brought in 25% or about $28K?
[/quote]

It is actually a little more complex.
The purchase price of the condo including closing costs was about $490k.
We took a $145k loan with BofA, $200k with in-laws and $145k down payment.
The down-payment amount was “assembled” as follow:
– $85k came from me as pre-marriage money
– $60k came from our joint saving account
So theoretically I put $115k down and she put $30k

[quote=ucodegen]
There is an interesting quirk in the “stipulation and order” in that you may still have a right to have the $85K reimbursed.
The way it was written does not tie it to the value of the property(condo),
[/quote]
Sure the way it was written does not tie it the property. But when tracing this money, it becomes obvious that it was.

[quote=bearishgurl]
On second thought, how about doing this right away, since you have the proof for $85K? Get the judgment against your ex ASAP. Then file the abstract and obtain your writ of execution. When her employer is served and calls her into HR, she will likely complain to her parents about it.
[/quote]
Frankly I am not sure why everyone here talks about these $85k.
First of all, my ex-parents have nothing to do with that.
Secondly, this is money that served as a down-payment and the equity in the house is gone.
If I had bought a $50k car for both myself and my wife with pre-marriage money and then crashed a car into a wall resulting in a total loss, would I get $50k back from my wife after divorce? Obviously not.
The loss of the car is an analogy to the loss of value in the real estate property. The value is gone so there is nothing for me to claim.

[quote=bearishgurl]
frenchlambda, if you currently owe $330K on the condo and it is only worth $340K, I don’t see how you can successfully refinance. Your condo would have to be worth $412,500 in order to qualify it for a $330K loan at 80% LTV. It could be several years (if at all) before this happens
[/quote]
The question for me is not how much the condo should be worth to refinance. The question is how much extra money do I need to bring on the table to afford to refinance.
The condo is worth $340. I am approved for a $272k loan. I owe $330k. So I need an extra $58k + closing costs. I have a little over $30k in cash. Therefore I need an extra $30k.
Someone launched the idea of reimbursing $170k to the in-laws and keeping a $30k loan with them. That seems like a good plan. Let’s see what they say about that.

[quote=bearishgurl]
frenchlambda, did your ex sign a quitclaim deed on the condo over to you?
[/quote]
I don’t believe so. I would need to be aware of this, right? I mean, can she sign one without getting my signature too?

[frenchlambda]

Thanks guys for all the info.
That’s a lot of stuff here and I am still trying to process some of it.

Here is some answers:

[quote=bearishgurl]
In essence, what you did here was agree to pay back the $200K (half of which was your ex’s debt) for $10K in “equity.” This is not even enough to pay a RE commission to a broker to sell it
[/quote]
That’s one way to see the problem but I see it a different way.
After the divorce, we only had 2 choices:
1) Sell the condo, reimburse both loans and split whatever is left which in this case would have been nothing (we would have just break even after closing costs)
2) One party keeps the property. The other party is out of the title and no longer liable for any debts associated with the property.

We went with option #2 because it made sense to me to keep the condo. It is normal that it becomes my sole responsibility to reimburse the $200k loan.

[quote=ucodegen]
Since you mentioned $85k as your 75% into the down from pre-marriage assets, that means that she brought in 25% or about $28K?
[/quote]

It is actually a little more complex.
The purchase price of the condo including closing costs was about $490k.
We took a $145k loan with BofA, $200k with in-laws and $145k down payment.
The down-payment amount was “assembled” as follow:
– $85k came from me as pre-marriage money
– $60k came from our joint saving account
So theoretically I put $115k down and she put $30k

[quote=ucodegen]
There is an interesting quirk in the “stipulation and order” in that you may still have a right to have the $85K reimbursed.
The way it was written does not tie it to the value of the property(condo),
[/quote]
Sure the way it was written does not tie it the property. But when tracing this money, it becomes obvious that it was.

[quote=bearishgurl]
On second thought, how about doing this right away, since you have the proof for $85K? Get the judgment against your ex ASAP. Then file the abstract and obtain your writ of execution. When her employer is served and calls her into HR, she will likely complain to her parents about it.
[/quote]
Frankly I am not sure why everyone here talks about these $85k.
First of all, my ex-parents have nothing to do with that.
Secondly, this is money that served as a down-payment and the equity in the house is gone.
If I had bought a $50k car for both myself and my wife with pre-marriage money and then crashed a car into a wall resulting in a total loss, would I get $50k back from my wife after divorce? Obviously not.
The loss of the car is an analogy to the loss of value in the real estate property. The value is gone so there is nothing for me to claim.

[quote=bearishgurl]
frenchlambda, if you currently owe $330K on the condo and it is only worth $340K, I don’t see how you can successfully refinance. Your condo would have to be worth $412,500 in order to qualify it for a $330K loan at 80% LTV. It could be several years (if at all) before this happens
[/quote]
The question for me is not how much the condo should be worth to refinance. The question is how much extra money do I need to bring on the table to afford to refinance.
The condo is worth $340. I am approved for a $272k loan. I owe $330k. So I need an extra $58k + closing costs. I have a little over $30k in cash. Therefore I need an extra $30k.
Someone launched the idea of reimbursing $170k to the in-laws and keeping a $30k loan with them. That seems like a good plan. Let’s see what they say about that.

[quote=bearishgurl]
frenchlambda, did your ex sign a quitclaim deed on the condo over to you?
[/quote]
I don’t believe so. I would need to be aware of this, right? I mean, can she sign one without getting my signature too?

[Eugene]

[quote]Frankly I am not sure why everyone here talks about these $85k.
First of all, my ex-parents have nothing to do with that.
Secondly, this is money that served as a down-payment and the equity in the house is gone.
If I had bought a $50k car for both myself and my wife with pre-marriage money and then crashed a car into a wall resulting in a total loss, would I get $50k back from my wife after divorce? Obviously not.
The loss of the car is an analogy to the loss of value in the real estate property. The value is gone so there is nothing for me to claim.[/quote]

What if you bought a $50k car with pre-marriage money and _she_ crashed a car, would you still be OK writing off that loss?

Loss of equity should be divided equally between you and your wife. But if you forget about those 85k, you lose your entire contribution towards down payment (115k) but your wife only loses 30k. Do you think it’s fair?

[Eugene]

[quote]Frankly I am not sure why everyone here talks about these $85k.
First of all, my ex-parents have nothing to do with that.
Secondly, this is money that served as a down-payment and the equity in the house is gone.
If I had bought a $50k car for both myself and my wife with pre-marriage money and then crashed a car into a wall resulting in a total loss, would I get $50k back from my wife after divorce? Obviously not.
The loss of the car is an analogy to the loss of value in the real estate property. The value is gone so there is nothing for me to claim.[/quote]

What if you bought a $50k car with pre-marriage money and _she_ crashed a car, would you still be OK writing off that loss?

Loss of equity should be divided equally between you and your wife. But if you forget about those 85k, you lose your entire contribution towards down payment (115k) but your wife only loses 30k. Do you think it’s fair?

[Eugene]

[quote]Frankly I am not sure why everyone here talks about these $85k.
First of all, my ex-parents have nothing to do with that.
Secondly, this is money that served as a down-payment and the equity in the house is gone.
If I had bought a $50k car for both myself and my wife with pre-marriage money and then crashed a car into a wall resulting in a total loss, would I get $50k back from my wife after divorce? Obviously not.
The loss of the car is an analogy to the loss of value in the real estate property. The value is gone so there is nothing for me to claim.[/quote]

What if you bought a $50k car with pre-marriage money and _she_ crashed a car, would you still be OK writing off that loss?

Loss of equity should be divided equally between you and your wife. But if you forget about those 85k, you lose your entire contribution towards down payment (115k) but your wife only loses 30k. Do you think it’s fair?

[Eugene]

[quote]Frankly I am not sure why everyone here talks about these $85k.
First of all, my ex-parents have nothing to do with that.
Secondly, this is money that served as a down-payment and the equity in the house is gone.
If I had bought a $50k car for both myself and my wife with pre-marriage money and then crashed a car into a wall resulting in a total loss, would I get $50k back from my wife after divorce? Obviously not.
The loss of the car is an analogy to the loss of value in the real estate property. The value is gone so there is nothing for me to claim.[/quote]

What if you bought a $50k car with pre-marriage money and _she_ crashed a car, would you still be OK writing off that loss?

Loss of equity should be divided equally between you and your wife. But if you forget about those 85k, you lose your entire contribution towards down payment (115k) but your wife only loses 30k. Do you think it’s fair?

[Eugene]

[quote]Frankly I am not sure why everyone here talks about these $85k.
First of all, my ex-parents have nothing to do with that.
Secondly, this is money that served as a down-payment and the equity in the house is gone.
If I had bought a $50k car for both myself and my wife with pre-marriage money and then crashed a car into a wall resulting in a total loss, would I get $50k back from my wife after divorce? Obviously not.
The loss of the car is an analogy to the loss of value in the real estate property. The value is gone so there is nothing for me to claim.[/quote]

What if you bought a $50k car with pre-marriage money and _she_ crashed a car, would you still be OK writing off that loss?

Loss of equity should be divided equally between you and your wife. But if you forget about those 85k, you lose your entire contribution towards down payment (115k) but your wife only loses 30k. Do you think it’s fair?

[frenchlambda]

[quote=bearishgurl]Eugene, why quibble over $5K to $10K in “theoretical” monies the “community” owes him when, if the tactic I suggested works, the OP can live in the same county as the mom, not have to move and just owe the 1st TD amt. [/quote]

I don’t get it. The $200k will never go away.
If I default on the loan from the ex-in-laws, then they do have a solid case for foreclosing.
The “stipulation and order” with the $85k never made it to the final divorce agreement.

[frenchlambda]

[quote=bearishgurl]Eugene, why quibble over $5K to $10K in “theoretical” monies the “community” owes him when, if the tactic I suggested works, the OP can live in the same county as the mom, not have to move and just owe the 1st TD amt. [/quote]

I don’t get it. The $200k will never go away.
If I default on the loan from the ex-in-laws, then they do have a solid case for foreclosing.
The “stipulation and order” with the $85k never made it to the final divorce agreement.

[frenchlambda]

[quote=bearishgurl]Eugene, why quibble over $5K to $10K in “theoretical” monies the “community” owes him when, if the tactic I suggested works, the OP can live in the same county as the mom, not have to move and just owe the 1st TD amt. [/quote]

I don’t get it. The $200k will never go away.
If I default on the loan from the ex-in-laws, then they do have a solid case for foreclosing.
The “stipulation and order” with the $85k never made it to the final divorce agreement.

[frenchlambda]

[quote=bearishgurl]Eugene, why quibble over $5K to $10K in “theoretical” monies the “community” owes him when, if the tactic I suggested works, the OP can live in the same county as the mom, not have to move and just owe the 1st TD amt. [/quote]

I don’t get it. The $200k will never go away.
If I default on the loan from the ex-in-laws, then they do have a solid case for foreclosing.
The “stipulation and order” with the $85k never made it to the final divorce agreement.

[Author]

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