ethical question; short sales

[faterikcartman]

Wish I had seen this a few weeks ago.

My wife and I had already experienced short sale chicanery when we couldn’t figure out why a listing agent was not even interested in our offer.

We recently made an offer on land and our agent was asked if we could bring cash to the deal to cover past due HOA and other fees. We weren’t sure how to handle this and our agent replied “my clients have cash, but it depends on what the final number is”.

If I had read this I would have savvied to what was going on and just offered up cash on the side and made a lower offer. Luckily for us expensive lots are a tougher sell than cheap houses so our offer went to the bank anyway — though I am still expecting some sort of cash outlay needing to be made to get closing done. But really I’m not sure what is going to happen and am just waiting to see.

On a personal note, I have been burned too many times by people not wanting to put things in writing and later denying they said something so for several years now if someone I’m dealing with (all transactions, not just real estate) goes out of their way to avoid putting it in writing I won’t deal with them anymore. For example, I’ll try to email my questions and instead of getting answers in writing I get a response like “why don’t you give me a call…” Just a huge red flag for me anymore.

[sdrealtor]

This sounds like a very different situation. HOA dues must be made current to complete a short sale and the seller might not have the money or be willing to part with it. Your example actually sounds legitimate and does not appear to involve payments directly to the seller unless there is something else going on that you didnt mention.

[sdrealtor]

This sounds like a very different situation. HOA dues must be made current to complete a short sale and the seller might not have the money or be willing to part with it. Your example actually sounds legitimate and does not appear to involve payments directly to the seller unless there is something else going on that you didnt mention.

[sdrealtor]

This sounds like a very different situation. HOA dues must be made current to complete a short sale and the seller might not have the money or be willing to part with it. Your example actually sounds legitimate and does not appear to involve payments directly to the seller unless there is something else going on that you didnt mention.

[sdrealtor]

This sounds like a very different situation. HOA dues must be made current to complete a short sale and the seller might not have the money or be willing to part with it. Your example actually sounds legitimate and does not appear to involve payments directly to the seller unless there is something else going on that you didnt mention.

[sdrealtor]

This sounds like a very different situation. HOA dues must be made current to complete a short sale and the seller might not have the money or be willing to part with it. Your example actually sounds legitimate and does not appear to involve payments directly to the seller unless there is something else going on that you didnt mention.

[Coronita]

[quote=davelj][quote=urbanrealtor][quote=sdrealtor]Good advice[/quote]
Dave, let me ask, what are the versions of this that you have seen?[/quote]

I’ve seen this twice. Both times very similar stories. The prospective buyers had lost a couple of short-sale “auctions” to folks who were “buying the furniture” and they just threw in the towel and decided, “If we can’t beat ’em, join ’em.” They both eventually got prices they were happy with even including cost of “purchasing the furniture.” A year ago I didn’t even know this was going on. But both of these situations popped up over the last 6-9 months and I got the impression after talking to these folks that this is pretty widespread (it’s probably taken a while to catch on). One hitch is that most sellers don’t want anything in writing and they’ll *try* to get the money for the furniture before the deal closes. But most buyers won’t do this – for obvious reasons – so it becomes an issue of honor among thieves. Both of the folks I know just stroked out the check right after closing and it wasn’t a big deal. I think at the end of the day most folks just think (understandably, frankly), “Fuck the lenders.”

Look, the folks who want lower comps shouldn’t have any problem with this type of behavior. These transactions keep part of the real purchase price off the books and thus depress the comps, all else being equal. So these folks should stop their whining and learn to love it.[/quote]

So, I know this sounds crappy to say. BUT…If this sort of “pay a lot for my used furniture” happens under the table as a verbal agreement, as a prospective buyer, what’s to say that that the prospective buyer doesn’t say screw the lender and the seller…

“Sure, I’ll pay you right after I close”, and then after the buyer closes, just tell the seller “what deal, what are you talking about?”
I mean, what’s the seller going to do, come back an sue with the argument “but, they promised they’d pay us a bribe”?????

Seems to me a win/win for the buyer and doubly screwing both the lender and the seller trying to take advantage of the situation.

[Coronita]

[quote=davelj][quote=urbanrealtor][quote=sdrealtor]Good advice[/quote]
Dave, let me ask, what are the versions of this that you have seen?[/quote]

I’ve seen this twice. Both times very similar stories. The prospective buyers had lost a couple of short-sale “auctions” to folks who were “buying the furniture” and they just threw in the towel and decided, “If we can’t beat ’em, join ’em.” They both eventually got prices they were happy with even including cost of “purchasing the furniture.” A year ago I didn’t even know this was going on. But both of these situations popped up over the last 6-9 months and I got the impression after talking to these folks that this is pretty widespread (it’s probably taken a while to catch on). One hitch is that most sellers don’t want anything in writing and they’ll *try* to get the money for the furniture before the deal closes. But most buyers won’t do this – for obvious reasons – so it becomes an issue of honor among thieves. Both of the folks I know just stroked out the check right after closing and it wasn’t a big deal. I think at the end of the day most folks just think (understandably, frankly), “Fuck the lenders.”

Look, the folks who want lower comps shouldn’t have any problem with this type of behavior. These transactions keep part of the real purchase price off the books and thus depress the comps, all else being equal. So these folks should stop their whining and learn to love it.[/quote]

So, I know this sounds crappy to say. BUT…If this sort of “pay a lot for my used furniture” happens under the table as a verbal agreement, as a prospective buyer, what’s to say that that the prospective buyer doesn’t say screw the lender and the seller…

“Sure, I’ll pay you right after I close”, and then after the buyer closes, just tell the seller “what deal, what are you talking about?”
I mean, what’s the seller going to do, come back an sue with the argument “but, they promised they’d pay us a bribe”?????

Seems to me a win/win for the buyer and doubly screwing both the lender and the seller trying to take advantage of the situation.

[Coronita]

[quote=davelj][quote=urbanrealtor][quote=sdrealtor]Good advice[/quote]
Dave, let me ask, what are the versions of this that you have seen?[/quote]

I’ve seen this twice. Both times very similar stories. The prospective buyers had lost a couple of short-sale “auctions” to folks who were “buying the furniture” and they just threw in the towel and decided, “If we can’t beat ’em, join ’em.” They both eventually got prices they were happy with even including cost of “purchasing the furniture.” A year ago I didn’t even know this was going on. But both of these situations popped up over the last 6-9 months and I got the impression after talking to these folks that this is pretty widespread (it’s probably taken a while to catch on). One hitch is that most sellers don’t want anything in writing and they’ll *try* to get the money for the furniture before the deal closes. But most buyers won’t do this – for obvious reasons – so it becomes an issue of honor among thieves. Both of the folks I know just stroked out the check right after closing and it wasn’t a big deal. I think at the end of the day most folks just think (understandably, frankly), “Fuck the lenders.”

Look, the folks who want lower comps shouldn’t have any problem with this type of behavior. These transactions keep part of the real purchase price off the books and thus depress the comps, all else being equal. So these folks should stop their whining and learn to love it.[/quote]

So, I know this sounds crappy to say. BUT…If this sort of “pay a lot for my used furniture” happens under the table as a verbal agreement, as a prospective buyer, what’s to say that that the prospective buyer doesn’t say screw the lender and the seller…

“Sure, I’ll pay you right after I close”, and then after the buyer closes, just tell the seller “what deal, what are you talking about?”
I mean, what’s the seller going to do, come back an sue with the argument “but, they promised they’d pay us a bribe”?????

Seems to me a win/win for the buyer and doubly screwing both the lender and the seller trying to take advantage of the situation.

[Coronita]

[quote=davelj][quote=urbanrealtor][quote=sdrealtor]Good advice[/quote]
Dave, let me ask, what are the versions of this that you have seen?[/quote]

I’ve seen this twice. Both times very similar stories. The prospective buyers had lost a couple of short-sale “auctions” to folks who were “buying the furniture” and they just threw in the towel and decided, “If we can’t beat ’em, join ’em.” They both eventually got prices they were happy with even including cost of “purchasing the furniture.” A year ago I didn’t even know this was going on. But both of these situations popped up over the last 6-9 months and I got the impression after talking to these folks that this is pretty widespread (it’s probably taken a while to catch on). One hitch is that most sellers don’t want anything in writing and they’ll *try* to get the money for the furniture before the deal closes. But most buyers won’t do this – for obvious reasons – so it becomes an issue of honor among thieves. Both of the folks I know just stroked out the check right after closing and it wasn’t a big deal. I think at the end of the day most folks just think (understandably, frankly), “Fuck the lenders.”

Look, the folks who want lower comps shouldn’t have any problem with this type of behavior. These transactions keep part of the real purchase price off the books and thus depress the comps, all else being equal. So these folks should stop their whining and learn to love it.[/quote]

So, I know this sounds crappy to say. BUT…If this sort of “pay a lot for my used furniture” happens under the table as a verbal agreement, as a prospective buyer, what’s to say that that the prospective buyer doesn’t say screw the lender and the seller…

“Sure, I’ll pay you right after I close”, and then after the buyer closes, just tell the seller “what deal, what are you talking about?”
I mean, what’s the seller going to do, come back an sue with the argument “but, they promised they’d pay us a bribe”?????

Seems to me a win/win for the buyer and doubly screwing both the lender and the seller trying to take advantage of the situation.

[Coronita]

[quote=davelj][quote=urbanrealtor][quote=sdrealtor]Good advice[/quote]
Dave, let me ask, what are the versions of this that you have seen?[/quote]

I’ve seen this twice. Both times very similar stories. The prospective buyers had lost a couple of short-sale “auctions” to folks who were “buying the furniture” and they just threw in the towel and decided, “If we can’t beat ’em, join ’em.” They both eventually got prices they were happy with even including cost of “purchasing the furniture.” A year ago I didn’t even know this was going on. But both of these situations popped up over the last 6-9 months and I got the impression after talking to these folks that this is pretty widespread (it’s probably taken a while to catch on). One hitch is that most sellers don’t want anything in writing and they’ll *try* to get the money for the furniture before the deal closes. But most buyers won’t do this – for obvious reasons – so it becomes an issue of honor among thieves. Both of the folks I know just stroked out the check right after closing and it wasn’t a big deal. I think at the end of the day most folks just think (understandably, frankly), “Fuck the lenders.”

Look, the folks who want lower comps shouldn’t have any problem with this type of behavior. These transactions keep part of the real purchase price off the books and thus depress the comps, all else being equal. So these folks should stop their whining and learn to love it.[/quote]

So, I know this sounds crappy to say. BUT…If this sort of “pay a lot for my used furniture” happens under the table as a verbal agreement, as a prospective buyer, what’s to say that that the prospective buyer doesn’t say screw the lender and the seller…

“Sure, I’ll pay you right after I close”, and then after the buyer closes, just tell the seller “what deal, what are you talking about?”
I mean, what’s the seller going to do, come back an sue with the argument “but, they promised they’d pay us a bribe”?????

Seems to me a win/win for the buyer and doubly screwing both the lender and the seller trying to take advantage of the situation.

[faterikcartman]

[quote=sdrealtor]This sounds like a very different situation. HOA dues must be made current to complete a short sale and the seller might not have the money or be willing to part with it. Your example actually sounds legitimate and does not appear to involve payments directly to the seller unless there is something else going on that you didnt mention.[/quote]

This is one I’m glad to be wrong on then and good to know — thanks.

[faterikcartman]

[quote=sdrealtor]This sounds like a very different situation. HOA dues must be made current to complete a short sale and the seller might not have the money or be willing to part with it. Your example actually sounds legitimate and does not appear to involve payments directly to the seller unless there is something else going on that you didnt mention.[/quote]

This is one I’m glad to be wrong on then and good to know — thanks.

[faterikcartman]

[quote=sdrealtor]This sounds like a very different situation. HOA dues must be made current to complete a short sale and the seller might not have the money or be willing to part with it. Your example actually sounds legitimate and does not appear to involve payments directly to the seller unless there is something else going on that you didnt mention.[/quote]

This is one I’m glad to be wrong on then and good to know — thanks.

[faterikcartman]

[quote=sdrealtor]This sounds like a very different situation. HOA dues must be made current to complete a short sale and the seller might not have the money or be willing to part with it. Your example actually sounds legitimate and does not appear to involve payments directly to the seller unless there is something else going on that you didnt mention.[/quote]

This is one I’m glad to be wrong on then and good to know — thanks.

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