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CA renter.
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January 24, 2014 at 5:59 AM #770161January 24, 2014 at 6:45 AM #770162
scaredyclassic
ParticipantThis will vary obviously with personality. My wife’s too proud and fierce to take a dime from me I think. Also she can go earn money anytime. More important though, because I am absolutely amazing, it just strikes me as highly unlikely she would ever seriously contemplate leaving. Anyone else would just be so dull and awful compared to me.
January 24, 2014 at 7:18 AM #770163NotCranky
ParticipantYou do probably have a few things going for you.
I could end up being a greeter at Walmart….will it be o.k. to blame my wife for that?
Probably should be a “giving notice clause”…3 or 4 years indexed to unemployment figures or something. Somebody could write and app….”track my divorce”.
I could retool, maybe get liposuction and find someone new.
January 24, 2014 at 12:00 PM #770164moneymaker
ParticipantPerhaps marriage should have an expiration to it, say 9 years or so. That way it can be renewed, or people can continue to live together without the legal tie, or they can split up. My guess is most people would renew as divorce is just to difficult to go through.
January 24, 2014 at 1:14 PM #770165ParticipantI have a funny story. We recently tried to get our marriage certificate and found it was not there. The priest didn’t file the paperwork. Basically bottom line, we were not married–19 years of shacking up.
T here is I now know a legal process you can go through in probate court for a delayed certificate of marriage…basically you try to prove through affidavits; tax filings; church records; wedding photos …that you were married on that day and you get a retroactive certificate.
Cost me a few hundred bucks to file it…we discussed our options before filing..cheap divorce opportunity!
It was a very romantic court date.
My wife said I argued the case very passionately, but the judge was pretty easy to persuade
January 24, 2014 at 1:43 PM #770166FlyerInHi
GuestClassic, you’ve good a 6pack, hard back, good job, intellect, personality. Part time homemaker who enjoys it. The grass is very green in your backyard.
All that proves that one needs to keep on working at staying desirable. Whether it’s hard work or comes easily, you gotta do it. It’s like school, some students get good grades without any effort, others have to work at it.
January 24, 2014 at 4:26 PM #770169CA renter
Participant[quote=scaredyclassic]I have a funny story. We recently tried to get our marriage certificate and found it was not there. The priest didn’t file the paperwork. Basically bottom line, we were not married–19 years of shacking up.
T here is I now know a legal process you can go through in probate court for a delayed certificate of marriage…basically you try to prove through affidavits; tax filings; church records; wedding photos …that you were married on that day and you get a retroactive certificate.
Cost me a few hundred bucks to file it…we discussed our options before filing..cheap divorce opportunity!
It was a very romantic court date.
My wife said I argued the case very passionately, but the judge was pretty easy to persuade[/quote]
How crazy is that? 🙂
I’ll bet your wife is pretty awesome. Rustico’s wife, too.
January 24, 2014 at 4:26 PM #770168Participant[quote=Blogstar]No one legit would think a 100% belonged to them after years of shared effort at family. People might try to start negotiations from there but that’s absurd. I can’t imagine getting a concept like that in ones head.
I tend to think that even if the SAHP brought assets and the working stiff didn’t the working stiff is catching up. Even if net worth fell from time of marriage. Maybe I don’t value the home making enough…I value it a lot, but 100%? In any case, it ceases to be anything like 100% from day one in typical households. Even in your case, who would believe that 100% belonged to them? Only and entitled infantile person.
I have heard a few women think that having babies makes them own 100%…hell some think that having a vagina makes them own 100% and I guess the opposite could be said too.
At this point I think it would have been better to trust a hell of a lot more. Hard to estimate how much fear costs.
Funny , there are a few families in our circles where neither parent works. One is a late 40’s 50ish couple…they live in two countries and their lives are a bit different I guess but really nice and down to earth…they volunteer a lot at the public school when their kids were there and even when not. There was none of that where I come from…though, now I can see it really doesn’t take that much money to do that if you want to. More than I have by far.
The money really could easily be the least of trouble. If you really want to be serious about loathing the idea , concentrate on all the other ways a bad marriage and divorce after children could be hell. How bad would you feel if the other parent dumped their affection for the kids or jerked everyone around constantly? Stalking anyone? OMG![/quote]
I think you missed my point. In most marriages, people don’t actively think about to whom the assets belong. The family home is the family home (or whatever the assets are), and both people think of it as theirs. In most marriages I’m aware of, they are not thinking, “Oh, this isn’t really my house, only half of it is (or some fraction thereof). For as long as the marriage works, all of the assets are available to both partners (in most cases). But when you divorce, there is the cold realization that you don’t own as much as you thought you did…for both spouses.
Yes, you underestimate what many primary SAHPs do. 🙂 And in the same way that men perceive that all the money belongs to them because “they make it,” many women think that the children belong to them because “they make them,” and often care for them full-time. And there’s the issue of biological value for women — not only the physical act of childbearing and nursing, but the fact that they are very limited in how many they can have, and over what period of time. Limitations that men don’t have, which makes every child much more valuable, biologically, to women. IMO, that’s why mothers are often admonishing their kids to “be careful,” while the dads are often encouraging them to take more risks.
And your last paragraph happens all too often, IMHO. Too many divorced parents are hyper-focused on “moving on,” so neglect their parenting duties in favor of pursuing new romantic interests, or focusing more on work.
Really, I think that anyone who isn’t hell-bent on putting 1,000% into making their marriage a lifelong commitment shouldn’t get married. Too many risks for both parties.
January 24, 2014 at 11:42 PM #770190GuestI think in Northern Europe it’s like 60% of kids born out of wedlock. The kids seem to be doing quite well.
January 25, 2014 at 2:20 AM #770191Participant[quote=FlyerInHi]I think in Northern Europe it’s like 60% of kids born out of wedlock. The kids seem to be doing quite well.[/quote]
Not based on what I’ve heard. My whole family on my mother’s side lives in Europe, and most of my young relatives are single mothers (none of the single males are the primary parents that I know of). I have one male cousin who’s married with three kids.
The single parents are struggling, and the only reason they’re able to make it is because of the rather generous social assistance, including ~18 months of maternity leave — some paid by the govt, and some mandated to be paid by employers. They are much more liberal there, and have low/no cost daycare, housing assistance, low/no cost healthcare, etc.
In other words, taxpayers are paying for these families, instead of the parents. Not sure how well that would fly over here, and don’t see how this could possibly be construed as better than married parents taking care of their own children.
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In Europe:
An interesting blog post about the supposedly utopian Nordic model:
http://super-economy.blogspot.com/2012/11/krugman-misunderstands-sweden.html
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In the U.S.:
“The single-mother revolution has been an economic catastrophe for women. Poverty remains relatively rare among married couples with children; the U.S. census puts only 8.8% of them in that category, up from 6.7% since the start of the Great Recession. But more than 40% of single-mother families are poor, up from 37% before the downturn. In the bottom quintile of earnings, most households are single people, many of them elderly. But of the two-fifths of bottom-quintile households that are families, 83% are headed by single mothers. The Brookings Institution’s Isabel Sawhill calculates that virtually all the increase in child poverty in the United States since the 1970s would vanish if parents still married at 1970 rates.”
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jun/03/opinion/la-oe-hymowitz-unmarried-mothers-20120603
January 25, 2014 at 11:42 AM #770196ParticipantI don’t think scaredy’s six pack or my 8 pack hold much sway with our respective wives or with women in general.
The best way to be attractive is to be almost universally kind, not too addicted, humorous,Patient(something I lack) , at least moderately productive and definitely interesting by doing things that are appealing widely across genders on a regular basis with at least several activities,, good ones are art, gardening, nature activities, exercise(not macho contests) reading, cooking and dining, liking at least some chick flick or theatre, reading and or language hobbies, dancing, etc. Beauty can help of course, we are easily swayed by that for sure, but it can be bad when it is put above these things or used too blatantly to cross socio-economic lines, ignoring what is important.
Many women have told me they liked me after seeing how kind I was to old people! Sincerely appreciating children , not just to pass your name, just children anywhere, can make life easier. I have gotten respect for how bad my cars are.
If a man is like that and not cursed with obvious health issues, he will be potentially accepted by lots of straight women (appreciated by lesbians) .. pretty much anyone except gold diggers .
The comment about it being easier for some, like getting good grades is true though. I’d try not to get too hung up on improving the superficial though.
January 25, 2014 at 5:52 PM #770208joec
Participant[quote=Blogstar]I don’t think scaredy’s six pack or my 8 pack hold much sway with our respective wives or with women in general.
The best way to be attractive is to be almost universally kind, not too addicted, humorous,Patient(something I lack) , at least moderately productive and definitely interesting by doing things that are appealing widely across genders on a regular basis with at least several activities,, good ones are art, gardening, nature activities, exercise(not macho contests) reading, cooking and dining, liking at least some chick flick or theatre, reading and or language hobbies, dancing, etc. Beauty can help of course, we are easily swayed by that for sure, but it can be bad when it is put above these things or used too blatantly to cross socio-economic lines, ignoring what is important.
Many women have told me they liked me after seeing how kind I was to old people! Sincerely appreciating children , not just to pass your name, just children anywhere, can make life easier. I have gotten respect for how bad my cars are.
If a man is like that and not cursed with obvious health issues, he will be potentially accepted by lots of straight women (appreciated by lesbians) .. pretty much anyone except gold diggers .
The comment about it being easier for some, like getting good grades is true though. I’d try not to get too hung up on improving the superficial though.[/quote]
All this is true after women get older and have been in more relationships or marriages or have more life experiences. However, in the 25-35 age bracket, I think a ton of this stuff just doesn’t fly for the younger folks trying to meet people. The problem is you really don’t even have a chance to get to know people if you don’t have some thing that can get the conversation flowing. I saw it a bit at my work where younger and younger people, even now have to try online dating, etc…Just seems harder overall to meet and make the sacrifices to be in a relationship nowadays I think with both men/women working and society norms today.
…and this isn’t just gold diggers I don’t think. I also think after people are parents (who actually CARE about their kids), your whole view of the world, life, etc…changes since it’s really not just about you anymore (at least that’s my view now)…and you sacrifice a lot for your kids, spouse, marriage, etc…
January 25, 2014 at 7:34 PM #770211ParticipantI agree, young people can have very nice qualities and settling down with someone won’t be easy for all the reasons you mention. Can be a wild time…or a lonely time, almost any kind of time…and not always easy to find middle ground. I am glad to be through it.
I always have trouble with that word “sacrifice” as it relates to family. I know it’s true….but it doesn’t seem like something one wants to think about….like it’s selfish to look at it that way….I sort of look at it like tradeoffs and just forget about it, but it might be better the other way….you could be proud of the sacrifices you make I guess, or something.
I could be sacrificing myself by watching a terrible movie with them right now.
Journey to Mysterious Island. I already told my wife the only thing in it for me is looking at the girl… she said it’s o.k. she doesn’t mind.,,good to mitigate the sacrifices.January 25, 2014 at 7:40 PM #770212ParticipantBTW, CAR,
I looked at the contract you posted on page one for banker Dave, I think it was he who requested it. Pretty serious stuff….How legal is it all? I mean, does it carry any weight in a court? What difference would it make in say, a case of abandonment.4 drinks a day is a lot….they could be large. 4 drinks a day is alcoholic to me. 4 drinks a week is about right on the high end. What about chocolate?
January 25, 2014 at 7:43 PM #770213GuestGolddigger is a term that might seem offensive to some. I think everyone has minimal expectations. The minimum threshold is just different for different people.
Consider the wife of the VA governor who was stressing out because she didn’t have designer dresses. Based on some of the articles I read, the SAH wife was not satisfied with what her husband could provide. For example. she wanted an expensive wedding for her daughter. She wanted a Rolex for her husband and asked a contributor for it.
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