Deferred Maintenance and Fair Value Estimate

[duncbdunc]

AN,

re stucco: I understand that you are not supposed to paint over stucco. If you want to refresh color you need to apply a new layer of stucco. Apparently stucco is supposed to breath or it will rot inside from water damage. Paint seals the stucco.

re roof: even if a roof last longer than 20 years, its still depreciated relative to a new roof. This should be accounted for in the price.

re windows:I would argue that windows is deferred maintenance. A 20 year old window is worth less than a brand new one. Especially if its single pane. Over time, double pane windows lose their seal too.

re kitchen: appliances have useful life. 20 years and you start pushing it. Also, a dated kitchen should be worth less than an updated one. This all costs money and should be accounted for in price. This approach helps when comparing comps too.

re pool: good point, but I included because there are enough 20 year old pools in san diego to make this a relevant question and the cost of updating a dated pool can be quite expensive. I think some people underestimate this If the house you are bidding on does not have a pool, just ignore this particular item.

[an]

duncbdunc, thanks for the info about stucco. I didn’t know that. Based on the cost waiting hawk provided about new stucco, the price isn’t that much more than repainting an entire house.

Roof, it really depend on how long you plan to live in your house and how old is the roof. Is it likely that you’ll move out before the roof even have problem? Tile roofs are supposed to last 50+ years. So, if it’s only 20 years old, you still have at least another 30 years before it might give you problem (if it was installed correctly).

Of course a house with 20 years old windows will worthless than a house w/ brand new ones. The price usually reflect it. However, the return on brand new windows is not 100%, so you can’t just subtract the cost of the windows.

If you’re talking about appliances, they can be replaced w/ all brand new appliances for <$1500. 20 year old cabinet (oak if it's your typical tract home from the 90s) should still be very functional today. It might not look fancy as brand new cabinets but again, that's a want vs need. Of course a fully upgraded house will sell more than a unremodeled house. I don't disagree with you that an unremodeled house should be worth less than a fully remodeled one. But not everyone feel a brand new kitchen is needed.

[an]

duncbdunc, thanks for the info about stucco. I didn’t know that. Based on the cost waiting hawk provided about new stucco, the price isn’t that much more than repainting an entire house.

Roof, it really depend on how long you plan to live in your house and how old is the roof. Is it likely that you’ll move out before the roof even have problem? Tile roofs are supposed to last 50+ years. So, if it’s only 20 years old, you still have at least another 30 years before it might give you problem (if it was installed correctly).

Of course a house with 20 years old windows will worthless than a house w/ brand new ones. The price usually reflect it. However, the return on brand new windows is not 100%, so you can’t just subtract the cost of the windows.

If you’re talking about appliances, they can be replaced w/ all brand new appliances for <$1500. 20 year old cabinet (oak if it's your typical tract home from the 90s) should still be very functional today. It might not look fancy as brand new cabinets but again, that's a want vs need. Of course a fully upgraded house will sell more than a unremodeled house. I don't disagree with you that an unremodeled house should be worth less than a fully remodeled one. But not everyone feel a brand new kitchen is needed.

[an]

duncbdunc, thanks for the info about stucco. I didn’t know that. Based on the cost waiting hawk provided about new stucco, the price isn’t that much more than repainting an entire house.

Roof, it really depend on how long you plan to live in your house and how old is the roof. Is it likely that you’ll move out before the roof even have problem? Tile roofs are supposed to last 50+ years. So, if it’s only 20 years old, you still have at least another 30 years before it might give you problem (if it was installed correctly).

Of course a house with 20 years old windows will worthless than a house w/ brand new ones. The price usually reflect it. However, the return on brand new windows is not 100%, so you can’t just subtract the cost of the windows.

If you’re talking about appliances, they can be replaced w/ all brand new appliances for <$1500. 20 year old cabinet (oak if it's your typical tract home from the 90s) should still be very functional today. It might not look fancy as brand new cabinets but again, that's a want vs need. Of course a fully upgraded house will sell more than a unremodeled house. I don't disagree with you that an unremodeled house should be worth less than a fully remodeled one. But not everyone feel a brand new kitchen is needed.

[an]

duncbdunc, thanks for the info about stucco. I didn’t know that. Based on the cost waiting hawk provided about new stucco, the price isn’t that much more than repainting an entire house.

Roof, it really depend on how long you plan to live in your house and how old is the roof. Is it likely that you’ll move out before the roof even have problem? Tile roofs are supposed to last 50+ years. So, if it’s only 20 years old, you still have at least another 30 years before it might give you problem (if it was installed correctly).

Of course a house with 20 years old windows will worthless than a house w/ brand new ones. The price usually reflect it. However, the return on brand new windows is not 100%, so you can’t just subtract the cost of the windows.

If you’re talking about appliances, they can be replaced w/ all brand new appliances for <$1500. 20 year old cabinet (oak if it's your typical tract home from the 90s) should still be very functional today. It might not look fancy as brand new cabinets but again, that's a want vs need. Of course a fully upgraded house will sell more than a unremodeled house. I don't disagree with you that an unremodeled house should be worth less than a fully remodeled one. But not everyone feel a brand new kitchen is needed.

[an]

duncbdunc, thanks for the info about stucco. I didn’t know that. Based on the cost waiting hawk provided about new stucco, the price isn’t that much more than repainting an entire house.

Roof, it really depend on how long you plan to live in your house and how old is the roof. Is it likely that you’ll move out before the roof even have problem? Tile roofs are supposed to last 50+ years. So, if it’s only 20 years old, you still have at least another 30 years before it might give you problem (if it was installed correctly).

Of course a house with 20 years old windows will worthless than a house w/ brand new ones. The price usually reflect it. However, the return on brand new windows is not 100%, so you can’t just subtract the cost of the windows.

If you’re talking about appliances, they can be replaced w/ all brand new appliances for <$1500. 20 year old cabinet (oak if it's your typical tract home from the 90s) should still be very functional today. It might not look fancy as brand new cabinets but again, that's a want vs need. Of course a fully upgraded house will sell more than a unremodeled house. I don't disagree with you that an unremodeled house should be worth less than a fully remodeled one. But not everyone feel a brand new kitchen is needed.

[LuckyInOC]

WH – is your home single story?

[quote=waiting hawk]
Mines 2200 sqft
cost of new roof (7k using best arc. shingles)
cost to restucco (5k) Mines starting this weekend for 2200 bucks
cost of new windows (15-25k) Mines were 3k for retros
cost to resurface pool (7k-10k) I did my pool myself for 2k and that was buyin all the pool equip that was sold off from previous “owner”
cost to refresh kitchen (25k) I did mine with granite/limestone for 9k
cost to refresh bathroom (???)I did my bathrooms for 3-4k each including granite, all wood vanities, and update travertine tile.[/quote]

For our circa 1980’s two-story 2700 sf:

Qty 27 vinyl, retrofit, low-E windows $9500 single-hung or sliders, no patio or garden windows approx $350 installed ea. We used the lowest price licensed contractor. How many windows did you replace?

10×10 kitchen: Lowes Kraftmaid cabinets, 3/4 mdf bases and walls except sink & (1) end cabinet plywood. Std Cathedral Door with plain carmel finish. No glazed finish & no glass. $7500 delivered / not installed. S/S Refrigeratator / Dishwasher /30″ Slide-In Range / 36″ Hood all non-matching Mfgrs, not top-line $5k from Lowes. Counter & Backsplash – 2 slabs premium granite installed $5K by direct contractor. We did some wall and ceiling changes so our contractor cost was above a simple R&R job. For a simple R&R job, he would have charged us 1 wk @ $3k labor inc. minor materials. Ours took 3 wks @ $9k labor inc. minor materials. I provided the minor redesign and purchased the cabinets. Contractor did installation at my direction. Total for a basic R&R $15k + Design.

Did you replace or resurface your cabinets? New doors & drawers? New slides & glides? If you replaced your cabinets, with what material? LDF? MDF? Plywood?

Also, did you include your supervision time for your contractors. I have used low-cost contractors and they can work well if you supervise them almost every minute, especially in areas where they cover their work or can damage other surfaces. They tend to miss the ounce of prevention. It sounds to me that your a contractor yourself or at least a turnkey type individual.

My wife prides herself on getting the very best price for anything. She grew up in the middle east and truly believes their no fixed price for anything, everything is negotiable.

Lucky In OC

[LuckyInOC]

WH – is your home single story?

[quote=waiting hawk]
Mines 2200 sqft
cost of new roof (7k using best arc. shingles)
cost to restucco (5k) Mines starting this weekend for 2200 bucks
cost of new windows (15-25k) Mines were 3k for retros
cost to resurface pool (7k-10k) I did my pool myself for 2k and that was buyin all the pool equip that was sold off from previous “owner”
cost to refresh kitchen (25k) I did mine with granite/limestone for 9k
cost to refresh bathroom (???)I did my bathrooms for 3-4k each including granite, all wood vanities, and update travertine tile.[/quote]

For our circa 1980’s two-story 2700 sf:

Qty 27 vinyl, retrofit, low-E windows $9500 single-hung or sliders, no patio or garden windows approx $350 installed ea. We used the lowest price licensed contractor. How many windows did you replace?

10×10 kitchen: Lowes Kraftmaid cabinets, 3/4 mdf bases and walls except sink & (1) end cabinet plywood. Std Cathedral Door with plain carmel finish. No glazed finish & no glass. $7500 delivered / not installed. S/S Refrigeratator / Dishwasher /30″ Slide-In Range / 36″ Hood all non-matching Mfgrs, not top-line $5k from Lowes. Counter & Backsplash – 2 slabs premium granite installed $5K by direct contractor. We did some wall and ceiling changes so our contractor cost was above a simple R&R job. For a simple R&R job, he would have charged us 1 wk @ $3k labor inc. minor materials. Ours took 3 wks @ $9k labor inc. minor materials. I provided the minor redesign and purchased the cabinets. Contractor did installation at my direction. Total for a basic R&R $15k + Design.

Did you replace or resurface your cabinets? New doors & drawers? New slides & glides? If you replaced your cabinets, with what material? LDF? MDF? Plywood?

Also, did you include your supervision time for your contractors. I have used low-cost contractors and they can work well if you supervise them almost every minute, especially in areas where they cover their work or can damage other surfaces. They tend to miss the ounce of prevention. It sounds to me that your a contractor yourself or at least a turnkey type individual.

My wife prides herself on getting the very best price for anything. She grew up in the middle east and truly believes their no fixed price for anything, everything is negotiable.

Lucky In OC

[LuckyInOC]

WH – is your home single story?

[quote=waiting hawk]
Mines 2200 sqft
cost of new roof (7k using best arc. shingles)
cost to restucco (5k) Mines starting this weekend for 2200 bucks
cost of new windows (15-25k) Mines were 3k for retros
cost to resurface pool (7k-10k) I did my pool myself for 2k and that was buyin all the pool equip that was sold off from previous “owner”
cost to refresh kitchen (25k) I did mine with granite/limestone for 9k
cost to refresh bathroom (???)I did my bathrooms for 3-4k each including granite, all wood vanities, and update travertine tile.[/quote]

For our circa 1980’s two-story 2700 sf:

Qty 27 vinyl, retrofit, low-E windows $9500 single-hung or sliders, no patio or garden windows approx $350 installed ea. We used the lowest price licensed contractor. How many windows did you replace?

10×10 kitchen: Lowes Kraftmaid cabinets, 3/4 mdf bases and walls except sink & (1) end cabinet plywood. Std Cathedral Door with plain carmel finish. No glazed finish & no glass. $7500 delivered / not installed. S/S Refrigeratator / Dishwasher /30″ Slide-In Range / 36″ Hood all non-matching Mfgrs, not top-line $5k from Lowes. Counter & Backsplash – 2 slabs premium granite installed $5K by direct contractor. We did some wall and ceiling changes so our contractor cost was above a simple R&R job. For a simple R&R job, he would have charged us 1 wk @ $3k labor inc. minor materials. Ours took 3 wks @ $9k labor inc. minor materials. I provided the minor redesign and purchased the cabinets. Contractor did installation at my direction. Total for a basic R&R $15k + Design.

Did you replace or resurface your cabinets? New doors & drawers? New slides & glides? If you replaced your cabinets, with what material? LDF? MDF? Plywood?

Also, did you include your supervision time for your contractors. I have used low-cost contractors and they can work well if you supervise them almost every minute, especially in areas where they cover their work or can damage other surfaces. They tend to miss the ounce of prevention. It sounds to me that your a contractor yourself or at least a turnkey type individual.

My wife prides herself on getting the very best price for anything. She grew up in the middle east and truly believes their no fixed price for anything, everything is negotiable.

Lucky In OC

[LuckyInOC]

WH – is your home single story?

[quote=waiting hawk]
Mines 2200 sqft
cost of new roof (7k using best arc. shingles)
cost to restucco (5k) Mines starting this weekend for 2200 bucks
cost of new windows (15-25k) Mines were 3k for retros
cost to resurface pool (7k-10k) I did my pool myself for 2k and that was buyin all the pool equip that was sold off from previous “owner”
cost to refresh kitchen (25k) I did mine with granite/limestone for 9k
cost to refresh bathroom (???)I did my bathrooms for 3-4k each including granite, all wood vanities, and update travertine tile.[/quote]

For our circa 1980’s two-story 2700 sf:

Qty 27 vinyl, retrofit, low-E windows $9500 single-hung or sliders, no patio or garden windows approx $350 installed ea. We used the lowest price licensed contractor. How many windows did you replace?

10×10 kitchen: Lowes Kraftmaid cabinets, 3/4 mdf bases and walls except sink & (1) end cabinet plywood. Std Cathedral Door with plain carmel finish. No glazed finish & no glass. $7500 delivered / not installed. S/S Refrigeratator / Dishwasher /30″ Slide-In Range / 36″ Hood all non-matching Mfgrs, not top-line $5k from Lowes. Counter & Backsplash – 2 slabs premium granite installed $5K by direct contractor. We did some wall and ceiling changes so our contractor cost was above a simple R&R job. For a simple R&R job, he would have charged us 1 wk @ $3k labor inc. minor materials. Ours took 3 wks @ $9k labor inc. minor materials. I provided the minor redesign and purchased the cabinets. Contractor did installation at my direction. Total for a basic R&R $15k + Design.

Did you replace or resurface your cabinets? New doors & drawers? New slides & glides? If you replaced your cabinets, with what material? LDF? MDF? Plywood?

Also, did you include your supervision time for your contractors. I have used low-cost contractors and they can work well if you supervise them almost every minute, especially in areas where they cover their work or can damage other surfaces. They tend to miss the ounce of prevention. It sounds to me that your a contractor yourself or at least a turnkey type individual.

My wife prides herself on getting the very best price for anything. She grew up in the middle east and truly believes their no fixed price for anything, everything is negotiable.

Lucky In OC

[LuckyInOC]

WH – is your home single story?

[quote=waiting hawk]
Mines 2200 sqft
cost of new roof (7k using best arc. shingles)
cost to restucco (5k) Mines starting this weekend for 2200 bucks
cost of new windows (15-25k) Mines were 3k for retros
cost to resurface pool (7k-10k) I did my pool myself for 2k and that was buyin all the pool equip that was sold off from previous “owner”
cost to refresh kitchen (25k) I did mine with granite/limestone for 9k
cost to refresh bathroom (???)I did my bathrooms for 3-4k each including granite, all wood vanities, and update travertine tile.[/quote]

For our circa 1980’s two-story 2700 sf:

Qty 27 vinyl, retrofit, low-E windows $9500 single-hung or sliders, no patio or garden windows approx $350 installed ea. We used the lowest price licensed contractor. How many windows did you replace?

10×10 kitchen: Lowes Kraftmaid cabinets, 3/4 mdf bases and walls except sink & (1) end cabinet plywood. Std Cathedral Door with plain carmel finish. No glazed finish & no glass. $7500 delivered / not installed. S/S Refrigeratator / Dishwasher /30″ Slide-In Range / 36″ Hood all non-matching Mfgrs, not top-line $5k from Lowes. Counter & Backsplash – 2 slabs premium granite installed $5K by direct contractor. We did some wall and ceiling changes so our contractor cost was above a simple R&R job. For a simple R&R job, he would have charged us 1 wk @ $3k labor inc. minor materials. Ours took 3 wks @ $9k labor inc. minor materials. I provided the minor redesign and purchased the cabinets. Contractor did installation at my direction. Total for a basic R&R $15k + Design.

Did you replace or resurface your cabinets? New doors & drawers? New slides & glides? If you replaced your cabinets, with what material? LDF? MDF? Plywood?

Also, did you include your supervision time for your contractors. I have used low-cost contractors and they can work well if you supervise them almost every minute, especially in areas where they cover their work or can damage other surfaces. They tend to miss the ounce of prevention. It sounds to me that your a contractor yourself or at least a turnkey type individual.

My wife prides herself on getting the very best price for anything. She grew up in the middle east and truly believes their no fixed price for anything, everything is negotiable.

Lucky In OC

[CA renter]

Glad you brought this up, duncbdunc. Yes, without a doubt, some buyers are jumping in without any apparent consideration for the time and money it will cost to upgrade/maintain these homes. We see it all the time.

Just saw one the other day that we figure will take about $100K to get it up to where we want it (many of the items you’ve mentioned, but no “expensive” granite, etc.), but the price does not reflect the work needed.

[CA renter]

Glad you brought this up, duncbdunc. Yes, without a doubt, some buyers are jumping in without any apparent consideration for the time and money it will cost to upgrade/maintain these homes. We see it all the time.

Just saw one the other day that we figure will take about $100K to get it up to where we want it (many of the items you’ve mentioned, but no “expensive” granite, etc.), but the price does not reflect the work needed.

[CA renter]

Glad you brought this up, duncbdunc. Yes, without a doubt, some buyers are jumping in without any apparent consideration for the time and money it will cost to upgrade/maintain these homes. We see it all the time.

Just saw one the other day that we figure will take about $100K to get it up to where we want it (many of the items you’ve mentioned, but no “expensive” granite, etc.), but the price does not reflect the work needed.

[CA renter]

Glad you brought this up, duncbdunc. Yes, without a doubt, some buyers are jumping in without any apparent consideration for the time and money it will cost to upgrade/maintain these homes. We see it all the time.

Just saw one the other day that we figure will take about $100K to get it up to where we want it (many of the items you’ve mentioned, but no “expensive” granite, etc.), but the price does not reflect the work needed.

[Author]

Posts