The cost of an Ivy League undergrad degree next year….

[nla]

[quote=AN][quote=bearishgurl]Uhh, the only problem I see with this idea is that you would need to quit your job at least one tax year before you file your kid’s FAFSA by January of their senior year. Meaning, quit work during their sophomore year or first semester of their junior year of HS, at the latest. At that point, you have NO IDEA if they’ll be accepted to Stanford and likely won’t find out until Feb through April of their senior year of HS.

Since Stanford only admits ~5% of all freshman applicants, I think that’s quite a gamble to take with your OWN future, AN, considering you’ll likely still be “young” when your kid(s) apply for college![/quote]It’s not a gamble if I save enough to retire by then. If I don’t, I can always start working for start ups around town and take a low pay in exchange for a lot of equity.[/quote]

Ivy League schools and most private colleges (including Stanford) don’t just rely on FAFSA to calculate EFC (Expected Family Contribution). In addition to FAFSA, they use CSS Profile. FAFSA does not consider most assets and just consider AGI when calculating EFC. So most of the times FAFSA’s EFC is higher than the actual EFC from the college.

EFC calculation relies heavily on current income but also considers assets. Assets can be savings, money market, CDs, stocks, bonds, investment property equity, home equity, 529 or any other college savings, etc. The CSS profile even asks balances and current contribution to retirement accounts and current automobiles. Colleges uses these informations the way they want it to calculate your EFC.

So AN, even if you retire but your wife still works and makes about 90K a year and about 1.5 M in asset, you will still be full pay.

All colleges has an NPC calculator on their website. Here’s one for Harvard:

https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/net-price-calculator

HYPS are the most generous schools. Even if your HH income exceeds 225K, you might still get some grants from these schools depending on income.

The other Ivies, if you reach about 200K you are full pay.

[an]

[quote=nla]Ivy League schools and most private colleges (including Stanford) don’t just rely on FAFSA to calculate EFC (Expected Family Contribution). In addition to FAFSA, they use CSS Profile. FAFSA does not consider most assets and just consider AGI when calculating EFC. So most of the times FAFSA’s EFC is higher than the actual EFC from the college.

EFC calculation relies heavily on current income but also considers assets. Assets can be savings, money market, CDs, stocks, bonds, investment property equity, home equity, 529 or any other college savings, etc. The CSS profile even asks balances and current contribution to retirement accounts and current automobiles. Colleges uses these informations the way they want it to calculate your EFC.

So AN, even if you retire but your wife still works and makes about 90K a year and about 1.5 M in asset, you will still be full pay.

All colleges has an NPC calculator on their website. Here’s one for Harvard:

https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid/net-price-calculator

HYPS are the most generous schools. Even if your HH income exceeds 225K, you might still get some grants from these schools depending on income.

The other Ivies, if you reach about 200K you are full pay.[/quote]Damn, I thought I was clever. Oh well…

[bearishgurl]

[quote=flu]I guess all these things are interesting perspectives from real parents going through this lately, because being the planning person as I am, I’m trying to figure how much to put into a 529 account. Since I’m stopping at 1 kid, and since no one else I know will be going back to school, maybe it’s better just to contribute more to a UGMA custodial account.[/quote]

flu, you’ve posted here that you have rentals in SD (MM?). Not sure where else. Have you given any thought to moving into one of them when your kid turns 13-14, just in time to enroll in HS? Your kid can then enroll in a HS where she will likely be eligible for the ELC and have “guaranteed admission” to a UC. If it’s not the campus she wants, she can try to transfer into another one in a couple years.

You’ve stated here many times that you believe that your kid’s future UC app will be rejected due to her race/ethnicity (due to over-admission of same). If there is some merit to this, then ELC eligibility is worth considering on her behalf, IMO. There’s no reason she couldn’t have TWO ways to get admitted to UC (true “merit” and ELC).

This is just a suggestion on a way to “beat the system” at its own game. You can start by beginning to monitor the HS performance stats in the attendance areas of your rentals. Then, later comparing your kid’s 8th grade GPA against those stats and try to forecast how she’ll do in HS.

I laugh when I read here and elsewhere that parents pay $100K to $250K more for the same size and similar house just to live in a particular public school attendance area. It seems that what is lost on many of them is that public university systems DON’T CARE which HS your kid graduated from! Now, if any of those parents are eyeing private colleges only for their kid(s), the school (HS only) their kid(s) attended may factor into their chances for acceptance. But certainly, elementary and middle school are just a blip on the radar screen. When all is said and done, nobody cares about them.

[bearishgurl]

Very interesting info, nla. I’m afraid my kids’ other parent made/makes way too much for us to ever be able to file a FAFSA and we’d also fail the “CSS Profile” test. So no aid for our kids.

I wouldn’t care to put all my business out there like that, anyway, even for an “Ivy app.” That seems worse than a mortgage application and akin to an investigation for a nominee to Presidential Cabinet selection! Big Brother at its finest …. Hmmmph.

It’s moot anyway, as my kids managed to be so busy enjoying themselves thru their extra-curricular activities in HS that they turned out to be low/mid “B” students …. so obviously weren’t qualified for acceptance into the UC or Ivies. Those schools weren’t even worth applying to.

Congrats again on your kid getting into Ivy, nla! IIRC, he/she also graduated in the Class of 2014 from a SUHSD school, as my youngest did!

[cvmom]

[quote=bearishgurl]If you already know filing a FAFSA won’t do you or your student any good, then don’t file one.[/quote]

Does anyone else have a perspective on this? With our income in the junior/senior year >$400K there is zero chance for aid from Ivy or any other school, I would think. So why go through all the time/energy to fill it out? Any reason? Or can we skip it?

[Essbee]

[quote=cvmom][quote=bearishgurl]If you already know filing a FAFSA won’t do you or your student any good, then don’t file one.[/quote]

Does anyone else have a perspective on this? With our income in the junior/senior year >$400K there is zero chance for aid from Ivy or any other school, I would think. So why go through all the time/energy to fill it out? Any reason? Or can we skip it?[/quote]

I had never thought about it before, but my good friend was bringing up this idea a few weeks ago. She and her husband make >>$500K/year. They think that their kids will have an advantage if they do not fill out any aid paperwork, and come in as an obvious intended “full pay” student. She and her husband are both Ivy grads as well, BTW, but were solidly middle class. Her husband was ROTC his education was paid for.

Her idea is that it’s great to apply to Ivies either as a very poor student or very wealthy student, but that the “upper middle class and still seeking aid” is a bad place to be.

Her kids are 7, 5, and 6 months, so she has a while to figure it out…

[Coronita]

[quote=Essbee][quote=cvmom][quote=bearishgurl]If you already know filing a FAFSA won’t do you or your student any good, then don’t file one.[/quote]

Does anyone else have a perspective on this? With our income in the junior/senior year >$400K there is zero chance for aid from Ivy or any other school, I would think. So why go through all the time/energy to fill it out? Any reason? Or can we skip it?[/quote]

I had never thought about it before, but my good friend was bringing up this idea a few weeks ago. She and her husband make >>$500K/year. They think that their kids will have an advantage if they do not fill out any aid paperwork, and come in as an obvious intended “full pay” student. She and her husband are both Ivy grads as well, BTW, but were solidly middle class. Her husband was ROTC his education was paid for.

Her idea is that it’s great to apply to Ivies either as a very poor student or very wealthy student, but that the “upper middle class and still seeking aid” is a bad place to be.

Her kids are 7, 5, and 6 months, so she has a while to figure it out…[/quote]

But this just isn’t wrto college admissions but other things like taxes, especially if you’re on W2’s 🙂

In perspective, it is kind of funny that for household AGI’s >$400k, we’re talking about “financial aid”… I totally understand where you are coming from, but it’s just kind of funny.

Fortunately, I have only one 🙂

[flyer]

In response to those who don’t have to be concerned about covering the costs of going to an Ivy, I would say, you should be more concerned about your kids actually getting in, and graduating.

Two of our kids graduated from “Ivies,” and getting them in and seeing them through to graduation was more challenging than paying for it (thanks to the gradparents)–especially to med schools. In retrospect, it was well worth it, but, as many on this forum have mentioned–if you’re going out on a financial limb to do it–you might want to give it some serious thought.

We’ve known many people who wanted their kids to attend “Ivies,” but, in the final analysis, they just didn’t turn out to be Ivy material. In other words, there are many other variables that may effect the outcome of this quest other than cost.

[FlyerInHi]

Flyer, maybe people who don’t value top schools because they know deep down that they or their kids aren’t “Ivy material.”

Some people I know like to talk about hardwork, meritocracy, etc… But then they fall back on “with connections, you can do anything you want.”

Sure, good grades and high IQ aren’t everything (not applying IQ is laziness and therefore less deserving), but it’s a start on the way to adulthood.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=cvmom][quote=bearishgurl]If you already know filing a FAFSA won’t do you or your student any good, then don’t file one.[/quote]

Does anyone else have a perspective on this? With our income in the junior/senior year >$400K there is zero chance for aid from Ivy or any other school, I would think. So why go through all the time/energy to fill it out? Any reason? Or can we skip it?[/quote]

cvmom, I do believe not filing the FAFSA “helped” our kids get into their 1st/2nd choice CSU campuses with low/mid B average (marginal) qualifications from HS (due to focusing too much on time-consuming extra-curriculars – wasn’t my idea but couldn’t stop it/fix it). I believe this feat is really only realistically possible for a FAFSA filer if your kid resides in the “service area” of a CSU which they applied to and is only partially impacted, especially now! (SDSU is COMPLETELY impacted.) “Service area” applicants (those from public school districts and private HS’s surrounding the campus) are held to lower admission standards than applicants from the rest of the state, then OOS applicants and last OOC applicants, who are held to the highest admission standards.

Believe it or not, it’s not that easy to get admitted to ANY CSU campus today, especially for a first/second-choice major and even moreso if that major is impacted. That’s why I advocated applying to six or more campuses at once through CSU mentor. Another trick is … the earlier applicants are given highest priority for consideration, so best to file applications as soon on or after October 1 as possible. The freshman application deadline for the following fall admission is November 30.

If you find all this incredible, just look on a college forum such as collegeconfidential.com in the admission threads for each campus and you will see both freshman AND CC transfer applicants posting in APRIL with high 3’s GPA and multiple AP credits (freshman applicants) who haven’t even been admitted yet for the following fall and are becoming worried. Some applied to multiple campuses and still haven’t yet been admitted anywhere.

We always brought in our OWN aid ….. after the fact (after my kid had already accepted their admission offer). My kids were/are eligible for CalVet waivers (tuition portion of fees only) and another scholarship which currently pays out a maximum of $8025 year (if attending classes FT all year-round) as long as they maintain at least a 2.0 GPA at university. The scholarship pays the rest of the fees, parking and books (totaling $2974 for this academic year). I process all the scholarship paperwork myself in a timely manner and the checks get sent to the Financial Aid office where they immediately forward them to the bursar/cashier. The FA office doesn’t do any work on behalf of my student except receive and forward checks.

My youngest is staying for this summer and the CalVet waiver only waives a very small portion of CSU tuition for summer because the “extension universities” provide the instructors for summer classes (at an additional cost to the CSU) due to the vast majority of the regular university teaching staff taking the summer off. So this summer will cost $2209 and there is enough scholarship money left to cover it AND help a little with room and board expenses.

At a CC, my understanding is that CalVet waives tuition fees (only) for eligible students year-round.

CSU on-campus housing expenses have increased greatly over the past decade due to new construction and modernizing older dorms to provide more security and wifi, etc. And the CSU is raising their housing costs another 6-10% (depending on campus) for Academic Year 2015-16. Not all campuses have resident housing requirements for freshmen but most do, as most now have enough on-campus housing to accommodate all freshmen who need it. I believe the residency parameters for freshmen (to be required to live in on-campus housing) are about 38 miles from an urban-area campus and 50 miles from a semi-rural or rural campus.

38 miles can actually prove to be a very long commute in a highly-congested urban area.

At the conclusion of this summer’s term, my youngest will likely move off campus.

Sorry for the length. It feels like I’ve spent a l-o-o-ong time dealing with the CSU and I’ve got a little over 3 years left and then I’m fre-e-e-e! (My kids are far apart in age.)

[bearishgurl]

There’s no law mandating every incoming college student must file a FAFSA. Obviously, those households making $400-500K annually aren’t qualified for any need-based aid.

In that case, you can apply for merit-based scholarships separately IF they do not require a simultaneous filing of the FAFSA. Or avail yourselves of any aid/scholarships for which your kid(s) are automatically eligible.

[bearishgurl]

I agree with flyer in that actually getting admitted is where the rubber meets the road. Once your kid sets foot on campus, that is merely the beginning of their odyssey. One step at a time, especially for a freshman away from home for the first time!

Your kid still has to focus and pass all their classes and you (as a parent) can’t hold their hand anymore. There are so many things (both on and off-campus) which could derail your kid’s best intentions, depending upon how easily they are influenced by peers and coworkers, etc. Distractions abound on a college campus (esp a large public university campus) and so your kid has to be focused and self-motivated in order to graduate in 4-4.5 years. And very, VERY assertive and decisive on their scheduled dates and times for ongoing class registration!

If they’re not there yet, better for them to stay home and attend CC for a couple of years, imho.

[bobby]

[quote=AN]Here’s data for CS major:
http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report-2014/best-schools-by-major/computer-science

Look like best ROI would be CSU SLO and SJSU. UC are all over that list too. Not very many Ivy on there.[/quote]

I find it surprising that UCI (I studied computer engineering there) ranks higher than MIT, carnegie melon, Georgia tech, UCLA.

[nla]

[quote=bobby][quote=AN]Here’s data for CS major:
http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report-2014/best-schools-by-major/computer-science

Look like best ROI would be CSU SLO and SJSU. UC are all over that list too. Not very many Ivy on there.[/quote]

I find it surprising that UCI (I studied computer engineering there) ranks higher than MIT, carnegie melon, Georgia tech, UCLA.[/quote]

Payscale is self reported. Keep that in mind.

[scaredyclassic]

this month’s issue of MONEY magazine lists best 20 year ROI for degrees, from no. 1 to no. 10:

1 harvey mudd
2. caltech
3. stevens inst of tech.
4. co. school of mines (in state tuition
5. babson coll.
6. stanford
7 MIT
8 georgia institute of tech
9. princeton
10. co. school of mines (out of state tuition

20 year r.o.i. ranging from a high of 985k for no. 1 (over and above tuition paid) to 771k for no. 10

princeton barely clawed its way on there to represent for the ivies, presumably harvard yale etc do less well…

there ya have it. straight from money mag. a magazine i hate, but which for some reaosn I subscribed to last yr. this is my last issue. i hate this magazine. hate it. the offer was so cheap whowever i just sent the damn thing on in on a whim. dumb. i cant even articulate why i despise this magazine so much.

was gonna renew my oldsubscription to adbusters, sort fo the anti-money magzine but itwas too much money. no discounts. 50 bucks for 4 issues. just horrifically depressing, dystopian disaster. no stats on ROI for university degrees. just screeds against corporate evil destruction. althugh now i see its a little cheaper if i subscribe ont he internet.

since harvey mudd is 50k a year tuition, kid ahs to make 100k to get that million dolalr return over 20 years.

i think a kid is way more likely to get a better return on investment from a mere 8k investment as an engineering student at a cal state school.

obviously theres more to the equation than just ROI, but still…

point is…

ivies dont get the return on investment these schools do, on average…

[Author]

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