The cost of an Ivy League undergrad degree next year….

[CA renter]

[quote=AN]To an extent. It all depends on their capability and the profession they want to go in. Majority of them, I would suggest to go to a states school undergrad and apply to private for grad school. If they insist, i won’t stop them, but they would have to pay difference by themselves.[/quote]

Totally agree with this, AN. I like your priorities regarding family and outlook on life, too.

[flyer]

[quote=flu][quote=flyer]Agree with flu and FIH that rental properties (residential and commercial) are also a great way to go. Regardless of education and career choices, getting into that game years ago in San Diego and elsewhere has also really paid off for us, and just about everyone we know. As BG said, there are definitely challenges, but that is to be expected, and, in most cases the issues can be managed.[/quote]

Ok flyer, totally off topic now. but since you brought it up, I’ll ask. How does one even get started with commercial real estate on a small scale? Beyond fishing through loopnet (which some have said it’s the worst way to buy commercial RE)… If you don’t feel comfortable sharing publicly, it would be great if you could PM me. Would be interested in picking your brain about this, without being fed to the sharks. The last arrangement any family member had with commercial RE had to do with a property that was in Manhattan Beach found by a family friend that had a good rental stream, since it was that was a large land occupied by corporately owned fast food restaurant for which the corporate entity paid for the building and lot maintenance and the property taxes, so the only thing the partners did was collect the rent check and renegotiate the lease every 10 or so years. Unfortunately, the guy that found us this thing tried to squeeze all the other partners out after the thing really appreciated, so everyone ended up selling their respective stake and forcing everyone to get out of that clusterf of an arrangement, and killing the goose that laid the golden egg, so to speak..

So what’s the secret sauce into the world of commercial RE? And do you have anything in San Diego? Would prefer *not* to be involved in any sort of partnership with people that I don’t know well. I’m not interested in any sort of bullshit from PETDNT (piggington experts that don’t know shit), but would be in debt to folks that really know what they are doing to provide some “education”. Rest assured any sort of involvement I would possibly be in would not disturb the 1% club that you belong to, as my financial impact on that club would be like 0.0000000001% if any…. :)[/quote]

flu, don’t mind your questions at all, and if we had anything going on that would work for you, we’d be glad to chat, but, commercial is now a thing of the past for us. I brought it up because we were once very involved, but, as the city developed, and our holdings became more and more valuable due to the locations we held, it seemed wise to cash out.

Commercial is much more complicated these days, probably because people seem to be a lot more complicated these days, (reference the scenario you mentioned) but many of our deals were made with family, friends and a handshake–if you can believe that–and that’s probably the only way we would have been comfortable being involved in that type of business at that time. It was all very “old school,” so I’m probably not the best person to talk to concerning today’s marketplace.

If I remember correctly, I think you’ve mentioned working with some of the realtors on this forum concerning your investment properties, which, from their posts, sound like great people. Any chance of talking to them or people they might know about current commercial opportunities?

[Gata]

I’ve been following Pigginton’s blogs for some time — very informative and smart comments. I thought I would make my first comment on this topic, as we have basically re-designed our life around the outrageously high tuition costs in the US. For anyone who hasn’t, I highly recommend watching Ivory Tower, the CNN documentary about Ivy League v other schools – it basically supports the argument that Ivy League schools are overpriced, and I agree. I attended a top-tier law school and graduated with honors, finished my LLM with the highest GPA (for which I received an award), all debt free. Now we are focusing on UT Austin for our daughter, who has expressed an interest in pursuing an engineering degree. We’ve given up on UC, due to budget costs and the seemingly prevailing policy of accepting more out-of-staters who bring the bigger $$. UT Austin ranks 8th for engineering (not as high as UCB, but realistically I don’t think our daughter would get in with an 8% acceptance rate mostly met by out-of-staters or foreigners); it’s considered a “public ivy”, and tuition is only $10k/ year for engineering. We sold our San Diego home last year for asking price and bought a house in Austin to qualify for in-state tuition, where she/we will live during her college years. We managed to find a loophole to get an ag exemption on property taxes, which be in effect in 5 years, basically our current property taxes will finance her tuition. Assuming she gets accepted, her degree will be high quality, she will be debt free, and we can pass on real estate to her, which will provide a starting point for her life. And if she doesn’t get accepted into UT Austin, we could sell the house at a profit (it’s paid off) and pay her tuition wherever she ends up (including an ivy school if that was her choice). And my husband and I will retire in our home in HI knowing that our daughter will be financially stable and debt-free, which, to us, is more important than an Ivy League degree, but which doesn’t necessarily result from it. Most importantly, all this moving around was our daughter’s decision – she prefers HI and Austin over SD. Go figure…

[flyer]

Happened to be up posting this morning and read your great post.

All of these decisions are very individual, and it sounds like you came up with a win/win for your family.

We, (as I’m sure others do) feel the same about the decisions we have made concerning education, careers, housing, finances, etc., etc. in our family, which, as has been mentioned, illustrates there really are no “right or wrong,” answers to these questions–it’s simply–to each his/her own.

[Coronita]

[quote=flyer][quote=flu][quote=flyer]Agree with flu and FIH that rental properties (residential and commercial) are also a great way to go. Regardless of education and career choices, getting into that game years ago in San Diego and elsewhere has also really paid off for us, and just about everyone we know. As BG said, there are definitely challenges, but that is to be expected, and, in most cases the issues can be managed.[/quote]

Ok flyer, totally off topic now. but since you brought it up, I’ll ask. How does one even get started with commercial real estate on a small scale? Beyond fishing through loopnet (which some have said it’s the worst way to buy commercial RE)… If you don’t feel comfortable sharing publicly, it would be great if you could PM me. Would be interested in picking your brain about this, without being fed to the sharks. The last arrangement any family member had with commercial RE had to do with a property that was in Manhattan Beach found by a family friend that had a good rental stream, since it was that was a large land occupied by corporately owned fast food restaurant for which the corporate entity paid for the building and lot maintenance and the property taxes, so the only thing the partners did was collect the rent check and renegotiate the lease every 10 or so years. Unfortunately, the guy that found us this thing tried to squeeze all the other partners out after the thing really appreciated, so everyone ended up selling their respective stake and forcing everyone to get out of that clusterf of an arrangement, and killing the goose that laid the golden egg, so to speak..

So what’s the secret sauce into the world of commercial RE? And do you have anything in San Diego? Would prefer *not* to be involved in any sort of partnership with people that I don’t know well. I’m not interested in any sort of bullshit from PETDNT (piggington experts that don’t know shit), but would be in debt to folks that really know what they are doing to provide some “education”. Rest assured any sort of involvement I would possibly be in would not disturb the 1% club that you belong to, as my financial impact on that club would be like 0.0000000001% if any…. :)[/quote]

flu, don’t mind your questions at all, and if we had anything going on that would work for you, we’d be glad to chat, but, commercial is now a thing of the past for us. I brought it up because we were once very involved, but, as the city developed, and our holdings became more and more valuable due to the locations we held, it seemed wise to cash out.

Commercial is much more complicated these days, probably because people seem to be a lot more complicated these days, (reference the scenario you mentioned) but many of our deals were made with family, friends and a handshake–if you can believe that–and that’s probably the only way we would have been comfortable being involved in that type of business at that time. It was all very “old school,” so I’m probably not the best person to talk to concerning today’s marketplace.

If I remember correctly, I think you’ve mentioned working with some of the realtors on this forum concerning your investment properties, which, from their posts, sound like great people. Any chance of talking to them or people they might know about current commercial opportunities?[/quote]

I wish the good professionals I work with residential also work with commercial, but unfortunately, they don’t. With what family has experienced, it made me leery of just cold calling to people pitching they are commercial RE experts without some reputation of being trustworthy.

We didn’t get screwed. We almost got screwed, we came out pretty clean and ahead.. But just going through the discovery of digging up a lot of dirt on the individual and then push the other partners to vote the guy off the management team was a major PITA. Turns out he was bilking another investment group of 15-20 people that were his long time friends for millions over the years…. Guy was a real piece of work. On the outside, he appeared benevolent, as he use to donate millions to charity. That money was money he stole from a lot of his friends, some of them as far back as grade school friends, and I suspect the reason why he did that was to con other people into trusting him.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=Gata]I’ve been following Pigginton’s blogs for some time — very informative and smart comments. I thought I would make my first comment on this topic, as we have basically re-designed our life around the outrageously high tuition costs in the US. For anyone who hasn’t, I highly recommend watching Ivory Tower, the CNN documentary about Ivy League v other schools – it basically supports the argument that Ivy League schools are overpriced, and I agree. I attended a top-tier law school and graduated with honors, finished my LLM with the highest GPA (for which I received an award), all debt free. Now we are focusing on UT Austin for our daughter, who has expressed an interest in pursuing an engineering degree. We’ve given up on UC, due to budget costs and the seemingly prevailing policy of accepting more out-of-staters who bring the bigger $$. UT Austin ranks 8th for engineering (not as high as UCB, but realistically I don’t think our daughter would get in with an 8% acceptance rate mostly met by out-of-staters or foreigners); it’s considered a “public ivy”, and tuition is only $10k/ year for engineering. We sold our San Diego home last year for asking price and bought a house in Austin to qualify for in-state tuition, where she/we will live during her college years. We managed to find a loophole to get an ag exemption on property taxes, which be in effect in 5 years, basically our current property taxes will finance her tuition. Assuming she gets accepted, her degree will be high quality, she will be debt free, and we can pass on real estate to her, which will provide a starting point for her life. And if she doesn’t get accepted into UT Austin, we could sell the house at a profit (it’s paid off) and pay her tuition wherever she ends up (including an ivy school if that was her choice). And my husband and I will retire in our home in HI knowing that our daughter will be financially stable and debt-free, which, to us, is more important than an Ivy League degree, but which doesn’t necessarily result from it. Most importantly, all this moving around was our daughter’s decision – she prefers HI and Austin over SD. Go figure…[/quote]

not irrational, though very flexible and difficult to maneuver. I can barely get everyone to decide where we are going to eat out.

overall family financial health is a lot more sane than extreme sacrificing for no clear goal.

[Coronita]

[quote=scaredyclassic][quote=Gata]I’ve been following Pigginton’s blogs for some time — very informative and smart comments. I thought I would make my first comment on this topic, as we have basically re-designed our life around the outrageously high tuition costs in the US. For anyone who hasn’t, I highly recommend watching Ivory Tower, the CNN documentary about Ivy League v other schools – it basically supports the argument that Ivy League schools are overpriced, and I agree. I attended a top-tier law school and graduated with honors, finished my LLM with the highest GPA (for which I received an award), all debt free. Now we are focusing on UT Austin for our daughter, who has expressed an interest in pursuing an engineering degree. We’ve given up on UC, due to budget costs and the seemingly prevailing policy of accepting more out-of-staters who bring the bigger $$. UT Austin ranks 8th for engineering (not as high as UCB, but realistically I don’t think our daughter would get in with an 8% acceptance rate mostly met by out-of-staters or foreigners); it’s considered a “public ivy”, and tuition is only $10k/ year for engineering. We sold our San Diego home last year for asking price and bought a house in Austin to qualify for in-state tuition, where she/we will live during her college years. We managed to find a loophole to get an ag exemption on property taxes, which be in effect in 5 years, basically our current property taxes will finance her tuition. Assuming she gets accepted, her degree will be high quality, she will be debt free, and we can pass on real estate to her, which will provide a starting point for her life. And if she doesn’t get accepted into UT Austin, we could sell the house at a profit (it’s paid off) and pay her tuition wherever she ends up (including an ivy school if that was her choice). And my husband and I will retire in our home in HI knowing that our daughter will be financially stable and debt-free, which, to us, is more important than an Ivy League degree, but which doesn’t necessarily result from it. Most importantly, all this moving around was our daughter’s decision – she prefers HI and Austin over SD. Go figure…[/quote]

not irrational, though very flexible and difficult to maneuver. I can barely get everyone to decide where we are going to eat out.

overall family financial health is a lot more sane than extreme sacrificing for no clear goal.[/quote]

That’s a good point.

[Coronita]

I guess all these things are interesting perspectives from real parents going through this lately, because being the planning person as I am, I’m trying to figure how much to put into a 529 account. Since I’m stopping at 1 kid, and since no one else I know will be going back to school, maybe it’s better just to contribute more to a UGMA custodial account.

[scaredyclassic]

but here’s a contrarian plan.

JUST BORROW BOATLOADS OF MONEY.

in fact, try to maximize debt. assuming you and your family dont have much in the way of assets, it might not be irrational. With law school or med school, you might very well be able to climb up t the 400 or 500k in debt range.

then just put it all on IBR

(income based repayment).

basically, at huge debt levels, the gov. doesnt want you to defailt. there are all sorts of plans to stop defaulting, including IBR PAYE and public service forgivenemess.

IBR is based on income, its almost like a tax…but it takes the risk of the debt away from you, because your payment is only based on what you can pay.

of course, this is a giant governmental scam that only serves to prop up absurd tuition prices.
when the debt level gets high enough its the banks problems, not yours.

the main obstacle to this plan would be in not fretting over the debt, or, in the parlance of young debtors over at http://www.jdunderground.com , to “stop giving any fucks”.

its a daring, bold strategy, no t one i personally would have the cojones to engage in…

[Coronita]

[quote=scaredyclassic]but here’s a contrarian plan.

JUST BORROW BOATLOADS OF MONEY.

in fact, try to maximize debt. assuming you and your family dont have much in the way of assets, it might not be irrational. With law school or med school, you might very well be able to climb up t the 400 or 500k in debt range.

then just put it all on IBR

(income based repayment).

basically, at huge debt levels, the gov. doesnt want you to defailt. there are all sorts of plans to stop defaulting, including IBR PAYE and public service forgivenemess.

IBR is based on income, its almost like a tax…but it takes the risk of the debt away from you, because your payment is only based on what you can pay.

of course, this is a giant governmental scam that only serves to prop up absurd tuition prices.
when the debt level gets high enough its the banks problems, not yours.

the main obstacle to this plan would be in not fretting over the debt, or, in the parlance of young debtors over at http://www.jdunderground.com , to “stop giving any fucks”.

its a daring, bold strategy, no t one i personally would have the cojones to engage in…[/quote]

Unfortunately, that strategy would go against the grain of every bone in my body. Heck, I can’t even get enough cojones to take out a close to 0% loan if I were to buy a new car, all else being equal. Somehow, I don’t think my kid will be qualifying for financial assistance one way or the other. Heck, I didn’t even like having an outstanding balance on my HELOC for the past couple of months, even though rates are at 3% capped +3%, while the rental returns about 6-7%. Damn being financially responsible.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Gata]I’ve been following Pigginton’s blogs for some time — very informative and smart comments. I thought I would make my first comment on this topic, as we have basically re-designed our life around the outrageously high tuition costs in the US. For anyone who hasn’t, I highly recommend watching Ivory Tower, the CNN documentary about Ivy League v other schools – it basically supports the argument that Ivy League schools are overpriced, and I agree. I attended a top-tier law school and graduated with honors, finished my LLM with the highest GPA (for which I received an award), all debt free. Now we are focusing on UT Austin for our daughter, who has expressed an interest in pursuing an engineering degree. We’ve given up on UC, due to budget costs and the seemingly prevailing policy of accepting more out-of-staters who bring the bigger $$. UT Austin ranks 8th for engineering (not as high as UCB, but realistically I don’t think our daughter would get in with an 8% acceptance rate mostly met by out-of-staters or foreigners); it’s considered a “public ivy”, and tuition is only $10k/ year for engineering. We sold our San Diego home last year for asking price and bought a house in Austin to qualify for in-state tuition, where she/we will live during her college years. We managed to find a loophole to get an ag exemption on property taxes, which be in effect in 5 years, basically our current property taxes will finance her tuition. Assuming she gets accepted, her degree will be high quality, she will be debt free, and we can pass on real estate to her, which will provide a starting point for her life. And if she doesn’t get accepted into UT Austin, we could sell the house at a profit (it’s paid off) and pay her tuition wherever she ends up (including an ivy school if that was her choice). And my husband and I will retire in our home in HI knowing that our daughter will be financially stable and debt-free, which, to us, is more important than an Ivy League degree, but which doesn’t necessarily result from it. Most importantly, all this moving around was our daughter’s decision – she prefers HI and Austin over SD. Go figure…[/quote]

Sounds borderline nuts to me. UT is a fine school, but moving to a random place just to save on in-state tuition? Really? There are plenty of fine public engineering schools in California outside of Berkley. If the attitude is “Berkely or nothing” then that is no different than the Ivy elitist attitude. Trust me, for an undergrad engineering degree, it doesn’t make a huge difference in the long run from career standpoint if you went to Cal vs most any other UC school. The curriculum is the same.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=deadzone][quote=Gata]I’ve been following Pigginton’s blogs for some time — very informative and smart comments. I thought I would make my first comment on this topic, as we have basically re-designed our life around the outrageously high tuition costs in the US. For anyone who hasn’t, I highly recommend watching Ivory Tower, the CNN documentary about Ivy League v other schools – it basically supports the argument that Ivy League schools are overpriced, and I agree. I attended a top-tier law school and graduated with honors, finished my LLM with the highest GPA (for which I received an award), all debt free. Now we are focusing on UT Austin for our daughter, who has expressed an interest in pursuing an engineering degree. We’ve given up on UC, due to budget costs and the seemingly prevailing policy of accepting more out-of-staters who bring the bigger $$. UT Austin ranks 8th for engineering (not as high as UCB, but realistically I don’t think our daughter would get in with an 8% acceptance rate mostly met by out-of-staters or foreigners); it’s considered a “public ivy”, and tuition is only $10k/ year for engineering. We sold our San Diego home last year for asking price and bought a house in Austin to qualify for in-state tuition, where she/we will live during her college years. We managed to find a loophole to get an ag exemption on property taxes, which be in effect in 5 years, basically our current property taxes will finance her tuition. Assuming she gets accepted, her degree will be high quality, she will be debt free, and we can pass on real estate to her, which will provide a starting point for her life. And if she doesn’t get accepted into UT Austin, we could sell the house at a profit (it’s paid off) and pay her tuition wherever she ends up (including an ivy school if that was her choice). And my husband and I will retire in our home in HI knowing that our daughter will be financially stable and debt-free, which, to us, is more important than an Ivy League degree, but which doesn’t necessarily result from it. Most importantly, all this moving around was our daughter’s decision – she prefers HI and Austin over SD. Go figure…[/quote]

Sounds borderline nuts to me. UT is a fine school, but moving to a random place just to save on in-state tuition? Really? There are plenty of fine public engineering schools in California outside of Berkley. If the attitude is “Berkely or nothing” then that is no different than the Ivy elitist attitude. Trust me, for an undergrad engineering degree, it doesn’t make a huge difference in the long run from career standpoint if you went to Cal vs most any other UC school. The curriculum is the same.[/quote]

nuts is a little strong. Maybe not worth all that effort for the savings involved…but…maybe….if she were earning big money as a lawyer probably wouldn’t be as flexible or worried about savings…

I like the idea of just sending a kid to another state to live for a year…get a job.

[Anonymous]

If both kids and parents actually want to live in Austin it makes sense. Not sure about this case.

I am fortunate my kid is only three so I don’t have to deal with this non-sense for a long time. Also, I fully expect that within the next 15 years this “Higher Education Bubble” will have burst.

[Coronita]

[quote=deadzone]If both kids and parents actually want to live in Austin it makes sense. Not sure about this case.

I am fortunate my kid is only three so I don’t have to deal with this non-sense for a long time. Also, I fully expect that within the next 15 years this “Higher Education Bubble” will have burst.[/quote]

Just like the current housing “bubble” ? 🙁

[Anonymous]

[quote=flu][quote=deadzone]If both kids and parents actually want to live in Austin it makes sense. Not sure about this case.

I am fortunate my kid is only three so I don’t have to deal with this non-sense for a long time. Also, I fully expect that within the next 15 years this “Higher Education Bubble” will have burst.[/quote]

Just like the current housing “bubble” ? :([/quote]

Yes, all bubbles pop eventually. But the education bubble (i.e. student load debt) is totally out of control, the train wreck is inevitable.

[Author]

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