The cost of an Ivy League undergrad degree next year….

[Essbee]

You can get into medical school from either UC or Ivy schools. It can happen from CSU, but it is statistically much less likely. Is this because the students are on average weaker, or because there is prejudice against them, or a bit of each? I don’t know the answer to that.

I can only tell you my observation that I have not met a physician colleague who went to SDSU for undergrad. I’m sure they are out there, somewhere, but they are much fewer than Ivy/Stanford/UC/other private/etc.

Californians overall are at a disadvantage compared to other states because there are just too many college age people. Probably better to attend a midwestern state school and apply to med school there in that same state. Much higher chance of success, I’d wager.

If a California high school student asks me for advice about getting into med school, I will definitely advise Ivy/Stanford/UC OR a few other certain small, private schools with name recognition. This path will give them the greatest chance of getting into a US-based, allopathic (MD-granting) medical school, if this is their goal.

[scaredyclassic]

I’m guessing you know tt alma maters of a couple dozen docs at most. Sheeshh.

The advice is just absurd without real ststs, like saying I know someone who got autism after a vaccine.

Facts. Facts!!! Not I know some docs and the all went to such and such a schol.

What percent of applicants get in?

What’s the min. Cutoff meat score?

What role do interviews play?

Facts!!! Not anecdotes..

[FlyerInHi]

Working your ass off doesn’t make you smarter. But it will get the recognition for your hard work.

I coasted through school. In hindsight, I should’ve worked much harder. But I was kinda busy having fun.

I’ve learned that if you want to be smart, you need proof that you’re smart. Society wants objective measures. Therefore, no way a guy who goes to SDSU can be as smart as someone who attends Harvard. I don’t care how much money the SDSU guy ends up making.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=FlyerInHi]Working your ass off doesn’t make you smarter. But it will get the recognition for your hard work.

I coasted through school. In hindsight, I should’ve worked much harder. But I was kinda busy having fun.

I’ve learned that if you want to be smart, you need proof that you’re smart. Society wants objective measures. Therefore, no way a guy who goes to SDSU can be as smart as someone who attends Harvard. I don’t care how much money the SDSU guy ends up making.[/quote]

Ugh.

[svelte]

[quote=Essbee]You can get into medical school from either UC or Ivy schools. It can happen from CSU, but it is statistically much less likely. Is this because the students are on average weaker, or because there is prejudice against them, or a bit of each? I don’t know the answer to that.
[/quote]

Those aren’t the only potential reasons. It could be that those who want to become medical doctors tend to start out at the schools where they can continue their education past the undergraduate years.

[quote=Essbee]
I can only tell you my observation that I have not met a physician colleague who went to SDSU for undergrad. I’m sure they are out there, somewhere, but they are much fewer than Ivy/Stanford/UC/other private/etc.
[/quote]

You appear to be right about that:

https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/86042/table2.html

And also…where doctors get their medical degrees:

https://www.aamc.org/download/321532/data/factstable27-2.pdf

[Essbee]

[quote=scaredyclassic]I’m guessing you know tt alma maters of a couple dozen docs at most. Sheeshh.[/quote]

My med school class had 120 students, residency had ~40 per year, and fellowship had several per year. No CSU students among any of those. None that I know of among my current colleagues, either. You’re correct that I haven’t talked to all of them, but I have access to our department/division website and here is what I find:
MIT (2), UC Berkeley (2), Stanford (3), UCSD, UNC, Harvard (3), UPenn, Columbia, Yale, U of Maryland, U of Arizona, U of Chicago, Northwestern, U of Illinois, Grinnell, U of Hawaii, and 5 went to foreign colleges. Five are unlisted. Maybe those are the CSU grads. But at least 2 of those people grew up in other states, so it seems unlikely.

[flyer]

[quote=Essbee]You can get into medical school from either UC or Ivy schools. It can happen from CSU, but it is statistically much less likely. Is this because the students are on average weaker, or because there is prejudice against them, or a bit of each? I don’t know the answer to that.

I can only tell you my observation that I have not met a physician colleague who went to SDSU for undergrad. I’m sure they are out there, somewhere, but they are much fewer than Ivy/Stanford/UC/other private/etc.

Californians overall are at a disadvantage compared to other states because there are just too many college age people. Probably better to attend a midwestern state school and apply to med school there in that same state. Much higher chance of success, I’d wager.

If a California high school student asks me for advice about getting into med school, I will definitely advise Ivy/Stanford/UC OR a few other certain small, private schools with name recognition. This path will give them the greatest chance of getting into a US-based, allopathic (MD-granting) medical school, if this is their goal.[/quote]

Good post, Essbee. My daughter, and some of the other kids in our family who became MD’s pretty much found what you mentioned to be true.

Everyone can decide for themselves how they want to try to enter this super competitive field, as I’m sure there are other paths that work out well also.

As far as choosing MD’s and hospitals for personal healthcare, we definitely look at credentials as well as track record before seeking care, even if it means going out of town. There are definitely some places in San Diego that we would never seek care.

And, even though we seem to be in good health, with parents who lived long lives–we still go in for check-ups. Can’t tell you how many people we’ve known who felt well, so they really never saw an MD, then, when they suddenly didn’t feel so well, for whatever reason, they found things had been going on that didn’t present symptoms until it was too late. (consider this my PSA for regular check-ups)

[Coronita]

[quote=joec]I think getting into UCSF and some of the other UC med programs are just as hard probably as some privates. That said, something that wasn’t mentioned is that if you were seeing a doctor, a lawyer, tech guy or anything in life, doesn’t it make sense to see someone who is probably the best or hardest working?

Usually, but not always, the guy who even got into Harvard or top programs are already people who can and have worked their asses off to get there. I’m sure you have some folks who are smart at SDSU, but I don’t think those people are anywhere near the caliber of the guy at some of these other places. The reason is because the person at the top private school, if he was top probably was recruited and given free tuition if they couldn’t afford it. Look at this high school guy who I know is smarter than me…Look at the end of the article where me would like to go to school:
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/dec/10/eric-chen-siemens-flu-project-canyon-crest-academy/

Do you see a UC there? Will your own learning or research or think big go further working and studying next to this guy or the 3.6 gpa guy going to SDSU?

The reason Essbee posted about her med school experience was because if you wanted to go to a top program, you probably have to also go to a top school and do really well. Going to Cal State isn’t going to cut it I feel and think some folks here are being a bit short sighted when it comes to the money.

scaredy, I think you’re doing your kids a disservice by not at least considering the option as more of a positive if they even get in rather than forcing SDSU down their throats.

Again, please note that there is no guaranty that the ivy grad will do better, but, in general, they do make MORE money so the guy who posted that the cal state guy can make more or just as much is smoking crack:
UCB is 20th on this list. Other than the military ones (which are awesome deals if you can get in (also very hard to get in)), all the pay from graduation to 5 years out is higher on average for all the private schools:
http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report-2014/full-list-of-schools

That said, you still have to get in…Is it worth it? Generally, you can

Again, my views are also based on my own experience and I felt UC degree is worth “less” than say a degree from Stanford/Harvard, etc…when looking for new jobs, business connections, etc…[/quote]

Based on my observation from engineering at my company, we don’t make a distinction between a good state school or a ivy league school. Maybe when you are a fresh out of school with 0 experience. But anyone with more than 10 years of experience, more importantly is their experience and whether they can pass get through our onsite interview, and even then it’s sort of random.

At one point we did try to recruit interns/0-2 year experienced people locally from both UCSD and SDSU. Here was our observation. The really good UCSD candidates we couldn’t get, because they were going to Google, Facebook, or Apple. For some reason, UCSD teaches a lot of their coursework in Java but folks have very little school experience with embedded O/S and fewer understand multi-threading and concurrency. The really sharp ones tend to stay in research and aren’t interest in most of the positions offered.

For SDSU, we exclusively interviewed master’s students. Even then, it was hard to find candidates that we felt knew enough for what we needed to be done. The few good candidates we hired were people who already had a solid work experience that was simply taking part time classes to get a masters degree, but otherwise had very solid backgrounds.

I think the candidates we ended up hiring were the ones that had self interest in teaching themselves beyond what their coursework taught them.
GPA never came into play. We also blew it on a few good candidates, simply because of the moronic administrative overhead of our hiring process.

[FlyerInHi]

I remember an interview with Ang Lee. His parents wanted him to be a professor. Even with his enormous successes and all the money he’s made, they still don’t think much of being a film maker. There’s something about academia, the Ivy League and Harvard in particular. You just have to get it.

Scaredy, it’s like your fine watch thing. You can buy a Casio at Walmart for $10 and it will keep the time better.

Also, with globalization, there’s more demand for education and the supply of top education hasn’t kept pace with the amount of wealth created in the world. In pure economic terms, Harvard could charge $1 million per year and the classrooms would still be full. If anything, the demand would be greater because of greater exclusivity and prestige.

In this perspective, the Ivy League is a bargain at $60k!

[an]

When I said SDSU, I was using it to reference public school vs private school. I didn’t mean SDSU specifically. UC are only ~$6500/year more than CSU. It’s perfectly fine to go to UC vs CSU. It’s the road well traveled. CSU route is definitely less traveled, which is why you don’t see too many CSU students applying to medical school. Don’t take me saying SDSU so literal. But if one chose the road less travel does not automatically mean they’re less likely to to get in. It just mean they’ve chosen a path that most did not.

[an]

.

[scaredyclassic]

[quote=svelte][quote=Essbee]You can get into medical school from either UC or Ivy schools. It can happen from CSU, but it is statistically much less likely. Is this because the students are on average weaker, or because there is prejudice against them, or a bit of each? I don’t know the answer to that.
[/quote]

Those aren’t the only potential reasons. It could be that those who want to become medical doctors tend to start out at the schools where they can continue their education past the undergraduate years.

[quote=Essbee]
I can only tell you my observation that I have not met a physician colleague who went to SDSU for undergrad. I’m sure they are out there, somewhere, but they are much fewer than Ivy/Stanford/UC/other private/etc.
[/quote]

You appear to be right about that:

https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/86042/table2.html

And also…where doctors get their medical degrees:

https://www.aamc.org/download/321532/data/factstable27-2.pdf%5B/quote%5D

Not sure about the chart. Only list school providing 100 plus applicants. Minority apps come from lower ranked schools.

Doesn’t have actual admissions.

Yale might provide more apps with lower yield.

Could be fewer people at can state can ace the meat and keep up high gpa…and therefore don’t apply…but doesn’t mean the Yale name gave them the higher gpa and meat score. Just means the type of person who was going to do that was more likely to apply and they would’ve aced it anyway…

Applications are just indicators of a combo of desires and ones own perception one will be admitted

[scaredyclassic]

I know schools lie about stats but the Web page from cal state San Francisco claims 85 perc. Of its students get accepted to some med school.

In fact I assume schools lie.

But I bet their true acceptance rate is well in excess of zero. Kids would be suing…

[scaredyclassic]

How many applicants from CSULA gain acceptance to a US medical school?
A: Since 2005, an average of 27 CSULA students applied to medical school each year using HCAO services. Of those students, 48% gained admission to medical school. In contrast, the national average rate of acceptance to US medical schools from 2008-2010 was only 45%.
Q: Where do CSULA students go to medical school?
A: The University of California Medical Schools are the most popular choices with 23% of CSULA students choosing to attend either UCLA, UC Irvine, UCSD, UC Davis or UCSF. Additional programs recently chosen include: Albany Medical College, Creighton University, Drexel University, Duke University, Georgetown University, Loma Linda University, Meharry Medical College, Michigan State University, New York Medical College, Northwestern University, Pennsylvania State, Rosalind Franklin, Temple University, The University of Miami, Tufts University, Tulane University, University of Cincinnati, University of Iowa, University of Kentucky, University of Nebraska, University of Pennsylvania, University of Pittsburgh, University of Southern California, Wake Forest University, Wayne State University, Western University of Health Sciences.

Cal state Los Angeles website

[scaredyclassic]

The reality is the avg. Kid going to Cal state is not going to maintain a near 4.0 GPA and a kick as MCAT score.

But that’s not Cal state. That’s the kid

Given the size of Cal state LA 27 is a tiny no. Of apps esp. Since I vies produce 100 plus apps a year…but a Yale student transferring to Cal state could do it.

Csu to med school thread…

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/can-csu-students-get-into-medical-school-in-california.725625/

Of course it can be done…

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