ot: Colin Powell

[Kilohana]

[quote=DWCAP][quote=Kilohana]
Yes, the Rush quotes were real. Does context really matter when the the topic is the so-called merits of slavery? How about praising the assassin of an American icon and Civil Rights leader? Is there *any* context in which this would be appropriate?

Is this type of dialogue good for America? Is this really who we are?[/quote]

I am a history lover, and yes, the context of those quotes most definiatley does matter. Slavery did have some positive merits. I wont say there were any for those who were enslaved, but for those who were not there were some. To fully understand slavery, and the civil war which ended it, you must understand why people were willing to put their lives on the line to continue slavery. We cannot and must not judge the past upon todays morals. That is revisonist and uninstightful. We dont judge tribes in the Amazon by London standards, and that is about the same reasoning to look back 160 years and use today’s logic.
An “acceptable” context would be to understand today’s roots of racism and how to combat it. Most whites were little better economically than many blacks in the pre-civil war south. However, They were “free” men, and better than the black slaves for it, and were willing to die for it. I fully believe we cannot understand modern racism without abject analysis of this time, and that includes the context in which they thought.
There is no jusdication for the praising a murder. Ever. But it can help to understand why they were driven to murder. That is where my hair stood up. The man deserved nothing but analysis and condemination. I hope by learning from what happened we can avoid it happening again. [/quote]

I see your point, though I am not sure you considered the speaker and intent as part of the overall context. You’re addressing the topic directly – that it can be argued that slavery had some merits…

Fair enough, but even on a purely academic level, many basic arguments in support of this statement would raise a few eyebrows. I’d expect historians to use historical context in phrasing these arguments, however. Now looking at Rush’s actual (entire) quote – the one for which I believe there is NO appropriate forum:

“I mean, let’s face it, we didn’t have slavery in this country for over 100 years because it was a bad thing. Quite the opposite: slavery built the South. I’m not saying we should bring it back; I’m just saying it had its merits. For one thing, the streets were safer after dark.”

Safer after dark? He’s not saying we should bring slavery back…so what IS he saying? Just that there were merits? No… He’s leaving it out there for listeners to draw their own conclusions about slavery…. because the streets were safer. This wasn’t some random blurb. He was making a point. The full quote – as is and without parsing is deplorable.

The problem is we all know that Rush is NOT an historian and his intent was NOT to provide complex economical and historical context for his listeners. To put it simply, he was stirring the pot. He gets paid to make provocative comments. Further, he has a track record of race-baiting.

Look, I’m not trying to be the PC police. I just believe that a known race-baiter has NO credibility when he claims that others – like Colin Powell – are motivated by racism. That would be the pot calling the kettle…uh…. attractive and articulate. Zing!

Why didn’t Powell endorse Alan Keyes – or Al Sharpton or Jessie Jackson? I tend to believe it’s because he did not agree with their platforms. Occam’s Razor, etc…

In his endorsment of Obama, Powell gave specific arguments – arguments that were echoed on Monday by fellow GOP party member, Ken Adleman. To put it simply, Powell made it clear that McCain lost his endorsement through his own policies and actions. Otherwise, Powell would have come out much, much earlier to support a brotha. 😉

[felix]

If not for improper conduct getting evidence by the FBI, Ayers would be a felon. He would have done significant prison time, and rightly so, for the acts you seem to be trying to diminish in significance.

He is hardly a distinguished professor at UIC. If it weren’t for others in positions of power, seemingly sharing some of his and his wife, Bernadette Dohrn, beliefs, now being in high positions in academics neither would be where they are now and we are not better off because of folks like Ayers and Dohrn.

Add BO to the list of “quasi-academics” who have embraced these two, particularly, when it benefited him to do so.

If you believe it’s okay blow things up because you don’t care for how things are being done then Ayers is your man.

If you believe it’s okay to trespass and shout down speeches then the loony left is your domain.

If you believe falsely registering millions to vote because they are on your side then the Dem party is your party.

And if you believe the end justifies these means then BO is your man.

Lastly, on to the initial subject of this thread. I, like Powell, think every citizen who qualifies under the constitution should be able to aspire to the presidency regardless, of race, color or creed or sex.

I just don’t understand what his complaint about prejudice against Muslims has to do with McCain or the Republican party. In fact, it was Hillary who raised the entire question about BO and his possible Muslim heritage not McCain or the Reps. It was Bill, Ferraro and Biden who raised questions of reverse racial bias in favor of BO not McCain or the Rep party.

Of course, their will be narrow minded folks in both parties and some folks who are supporters of both will say things neither candidate agrees with.

The interesting thing is that the bias against Muslims that Powell seems to be fixated on and only as to Reps curiously could only be effective if that bias is found not just in Reps but in folks of both parties and in independents.

Thus Powell’s Muslim bias justification for supporting BO is neither logical nor based in reality.

[felix]

If not for improper conduct getting evidence by the FBI, Ayers would be a felon. He would have done significant prison time, and rightly so, for the acts you seem to be trying to diminish in significance.

He is hardly a distinguished professor at UIC. If it weren’t for others in positions of power, seemingly sharing some of his and his wife, Bernadette Dohrn, beliefs, now being in high positions in academics neither would be where they are now and we are not better off because of folks like Ayers and Dohrn.

Add BO to the list of “quasi-academics” who have embraced these two, particularly, when it benefited him to do so.

If you believe it’s okay blow things up because you don’t care for how things are being done then Ayers is your man.

If you believe it’s okay to trespass and shout down speeches then the loony left is your domain.

If you believe falsely registering millions to vote because they are on your side then the Dem party is your party.

And if you believe the end justifies these means then BO is your man.

Lastly, on to the initial subject of this thread. I, like Powell, think every citizen who qualifies under the constitution should be able to aspire to the presidency regardless, of race, color or creed or sex.

I just don’t understand what his complaint about prejudice against Muslims has to do with McCain or the Republican party. In fact, it was Hillary who raised the entire question about BO and his possible Muslim heritage not McCain or the Reps. It was Bill, Ferraro and Biden who raised questions of reverse racial bias in favor of BO not McCain or the Rep party.

Of course, their will be narrow minded folks in both parties and some folks who are supporters of both will say things neither candidate agrees with.

The interesting thing is that the bias against Muslims that Powell seems to be fixated on and only as to Reps curiously could only be effective if that bias is found not just in Reps but in folks of both parties and in independents.

Thus Powell’s Muslim bias justification for supporting BO is neither logical nor based in reality.

[felix]

If not for improper conduct getting evidence by the FBI, Ayers would be a felon. He would have done significant prison time, and rightly so, for the acts you seem to be trying to diminish in significance.

He is hardly a distinguished professor at UIC. If it weren’t for others in positions of power, seemingly sharing some of his and his wife, Bernadette Dohrn, beliefs, now being in high positions in academics neither would be where they are now and we are not better off because of folks like Ayers and Dohrn.

Add BO to the list of “quasi-academics” who have embraced these two, particularly, when it benefited him to do so.

If you believe it’s okay blow things up because you don’t care for how things are being done then Ayers is your man.

If you believe it’s okay to trespass and shout down speeches then the loony left is your domain.

If you believe falsely registering millions to vote because they are on your side then the Dem party is your party.

And if you believe the end justifies these means then BO is your man.

Lastly, on to the initial subject of this thread. I, like Powell, think every citizen who qualifies under the constitution should be able to aspire to the presidency regardless, of race, color or creed or sex.

I just don’t understand what his complaint about prejudice against Muslims has to do with McCain or the Republican party. In fact, it was Hillary who raised the entire question about BO and his possible Muslim heritage not McCain or the Reps. It was Bill, Ferraro and Biden who raised questions of reverse racial bias in favor of BO not McCain or the Rep party.

Of course, their will be narrow minded folks in both parties and some folks who are supporters of both will say things neither candidate agrees with.

The interesting thing is that the bias against Muslims that Powell seems to be fixated on and only as to Reps curiously could only be effective if that bias is found not just in Reps but in folks of both parties and in independents.

Thus Powell’s Muslim bias justification for supporting BO is neither logical nor based in reality.

[felix]

If not for improper conduct getting evidence by the FBI, Ayers would be a felon. He would have done significant prison time, and rightly so, for the acts you seem to be trying to diminish in significance.

He is hardly a distinguished professor at UIC. If it weren’t for others in positions of power, seemingly sharing some of his and his wife, Bernadette Dohrn, beliefs, now being in high positions in academics neither would be where they are now and we are not better off because of folks like Ayers and Dohrn.

Add BO to the list of “quasi-academics” who have embraced these two, particularly, when it benefited him to do so.

If you believe it’s okay blow things up because you don’t care for how things are being done then Ayers is your man.

If you believe it’s okay to trespass and shout down speeches then the loony left is your domain.

If you believe falsely registering millions to vote because they are on your side then the Dem party is your party.

And if you believe the end justifies these means then BO is your man.

Lastly, on to the initial subject of this thread. I, like Powell, think every citizen who qualifies under the constitution should be able to aspire to the presidency regardless, of race, color or creed or sex.

I just don’t understand what his complaint about prejudice against Muslims has to do with McCain or the Republican party. In fact, it was Hillary who raised the entire question about BO and his possible Muslim heritage not McCain or the Reps. It was Bill, Ferraro and Biden who raised questions of reverse racial bias in favor of BO not McCain or the Rep party.

Of course, their will be narrow minded folks in both parties and some folks who are supporters of both will say things neither candidate agrees with.

The interesting thing is that the bias against Muslims that Powell seems to be fixated on and only as to Reps curiously could only be effective if that bias is found not just in Reps but in folks of both parties and in independents.

Thus Powell’s Muslim bias justification for supporting BO is neither logical nor based in reality.

[felix]

If not for improper conduct getting evidence by the FBI, Ayers would be a felon. He would have done significant prison time, and rightly so, for the acts you seem to be trying to diminish in significance.

He is hardly a distinguished professor at UIC. If it weren’t for others in positions of power, seemingly sharing some of his and his wife, Bernadette Dohrn, beliefs, now being in high positions in academics neither would be where they are now and we are not better off because of folks like Ayers and Dohrn.

Add BO to the list of “quasi-academics” who have embraced these two, particularly, when it benefited him to do so.

If you believe it’s okay blow things up because you don’t care for how things are being done then Ayers is your man.

If you believe it’s okay to trespass and shout down speeches then the loony left is your domain.

If you believe falsely registering millions to vote because they are on your side then the Dem party is your party.

And if you believe the end justifies these means then BO is your man.

Lastly, on to the initial subject of this thread. I, like Powell, think every citizen who qualifies under the constitution should be able to aspire to the presidency regardless, of race, color or creed or sex.

I just don’t understand what his complaint about prejudice against Muslims has to do with McCain or the Republican party. In fact, it was Hillary who raised the entire question about BO and his possible Muslim heritage not McCain or the Reps. It was Bill, Ferraro and Biden who raised questions of reverse racial bias in favor of BO not McCain or the Rep party.

Of course, their will be narrow minded folks in both parties and some folks who are supporters of both will say things neither candidate agrees with.

The interesting thing is that the bias against Muslims that Powell seems to be fixated on and only as to Reps curiously could only be effective if that bias is found not just in Reps but in folks of both parties and in independents.

Thus Powell’s Muslim bias justification for supporting BO is neither logical nor based in reality.

[felix]

[quote=Kilohana]The bottom line is that the “Obama’s Shady Past” narrative was created out of the need to distract voters and candidates from discussing the real issues… Hillary tried it and failed – and now McCain has made it the centerpiece of his campaign.

In fact, McCain’s campaign manager, Rick Davis explained it all perfectly:

“John McCain tried to point out how people should be informed about Barack Obama’s background, including his relationships with domestic terrorists like William Ayers. People are going to form these judgments. It’s great fodder for us to debate every day. I think it’s fun,”

Fun!

I’m sure there will again be skeptics calling me on my lies so here’s a link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8G6dDVjW6c :54 seconds in.

Yes, the Rush quotes were real. Does context really matter when the the topic is the so-called merits of slavery? How about praising the assassin of an American icon and Civil Rights leader? Is there *any* context in which this would be appropriate?

Is this type of dialogue good for America? Is this really who we are?[/quote]

I grew up very close to where BO calls home on Chicago’s south side. It is you who is being willfully ignorant of BO’s past and his corrupt cronys. Anybody who would consider a politician from Illinois, in general, or Chicago, in particular, a good candidate for change or reform must either have a screw loose or be a complete ninny. Illinois and Chicago are known as one of the cesspools of American politics.

Graft, corruption, shady dealings and suspect ties are par for the course. BO’s neighbor, friend and political helper Rezko has just been convicted of a felony and the prosecutors are working hard on him to turn on our Dem governor, who may be our 5 governor in the past 50 years to go to prison for corruption.

The blind hatred of W has made so many folks and the media turn a blind eye to BO’s past and even current ties to the cesspool of Chicago politics. This may be the worse legacy of the Bush presidency. Making folks so mad at him that they abandon common sense and not explore the past of a man running for the highest office in the land.

[felix]

[quote=Kilohana]The bottom line is that the “Obama’s Shady Past” narrative was created out of the need to distract voters and candidates from discussing the real issues… Hillary tried it and failed – and now McCain has made it the centerpiece of his campaign.

In fact, McCain’s campaign manager, Rick Davis explained it all perfectly:

“John McCain tried to point out how people should be informed about Barack Obama’s background, including his relationships with domestic terrorists like William Ayers. People are going to form these judgments. It’s great fodder for us to debate every day. I think it’s fun,”

Fun!

I’m sure there will again be skeptics calling me on my lies so here’s a link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8G6dDVjW6c :54 seconds in.

Yes, the Rush quotes were real. Does context really matter when the the topic is the so-called merits of slavery? How about praising the assassin of an American icon and Civil Rights leader? Is there *any* context in which this would be appropriate?

Is this type of dialogue good for America? Is this really who we are?[/quote]

I grew up very close to where BO calls home on Chicago’s south side. It is you who is being willfully ignorant of BO’s past and his corrupt cronys. Anybody who would consider a politician from Illinois, in general, or Chicago, in particular, a good candidate for change or reform must either have a screw loose or be a complete ninny. Illinois and Chicago are known as one of the cesspools of American politics.

Graft, corruption, shady dealings and suspect ties are par for the course. BO’s neighbor, friend and political helper Rezko has just been convicted of a felony and the prosecutors are working hard on him to turn on our Dem governor, who may be our 5 governor in the past 50 years to go to prison for corruption.

The blind hatred of W has made so many folks and the media turn a blind eye to BO’s past and even current ties to the cesspool of Chicago politics. This may be the worse legacy of the Bush presidency. Making folks so mad at him that they abandon common sense and not explore the past of a man running for the highest office in the land.

[felix]

[quote=Kilohana]The bottom line is that the “Obama’s Shady Past” narrative was created out of the need to distract voters and candidates from discussing the real issues… Hillary tried it and failed – and now McCain has made it the centerpiece of his campaign.

In fact, McCain’s campaign manager, Rick Davis explained it all perfectly:

“John McCain tried to point out how people should be informed about Barack Obama’s background, including his relationships with domestic terrorists like William Ayers. People are going to form these judgments. It’s great fodder for us to debate every day. I think it’s fun,”

Fun!

I’m sure there will again be skeptics calling me on my lies so here’s a link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8G6dDVjW6c :54 seconds in.

Yes, the Rush quotes were real. Does context really matter when the the topic is the so-called merits of slavery? How about praising the assassin of an American icon and Civil Rights leader? Is there *any* context in which this would be appropriate?

Is this type of dialogue good for America? Is this really who we are?[/quote]

I grew up very close to where BO calls home on Chicago’s south side. It is you who is being willfully ignorant of BO’s past and his corrupt cronys. Anybody who would consider a politician from Illinois, in general, or Chicago, in particular, a good candidate for change or reform must either have a screw loose or be a complete ninny. Illinois and Chicago are known as one of the cesspools of American politics.

Graft, corruption, shady dealings and suspect ties are par for the course. BO’s neighbor, friend and political helper Rezko has just been convicted of a felony and the prosecutors are working hard on him to turn on our Dem governor, who may be our 5 governor in the past 50 years to go to prison for corruption.

The blind hatred of W has made so many folks and the media turn a blind eye to BO’s past and even current ties to the cesspool of Chicago politics. This may be the worse legacy of the Bush presidency. Making folks so mad at him that they abandon common sense and not explore the past of a man running for the highest office in the land.

[felix]

[quote=Kilohana]The bottom line is that the “Obama’s Shady Past” narrative was created out of the need to distract voters and candidates from discussing the real issues… Hillary tried it and failed – and now McCain has made it the centerpiece of his campaign.

In fact, McCain’s campaign manager, Rick Davis explained it all perfectly:

“John McCain tried to point out how people should be informed about Barack Obama’s background, including his relationships with domestic terrorists like William Ayers. People are going to form these judgments. It’s great fodder for us to debate every day. I think it’s fun,”

Fun!

I’m sure there will again be skeptics calling me on my lies so here’s a link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8G6dDVjW6c :54 seconds in.

Yes, the Rush quotes were real. Does context really matter when the the topic is the so-called merits of slavery? How about praising the assassin of an American icon and Civil Rights leader? Is there *any* context in which this would be appropriate?

Is this type of dialogue good for America? Is this really who we are?[/quote]

I grew up very close to where BO calls home on Chicago’s south side. It is you who is being willfully ignorant of BO’s past and his corrupt cronys. Anybody who would consider a politician from Illinois, in general, or Chicago, in particular, a good candidate for change or reform must either have a screw loose or be a complete ninny. Illinois and Chicago are known as one of the cesspools of American politics.

Graft, corruption, shady dealings and suspect ties are par for the course. BO’s neighbor, friend and political helper Rezko has just been convicted of a felony and the prosecutors are working hard on him to turn on our Dem governor, who may be our 5 governor in the past 50 years to go to prison for corruption.

The blind hatred of W has made so many folks and the media turn a blind eye to BO’s past and even current ties to the cesspool of Chicago politics. This may be the worse legacy of the Bush presidency. Making folks so mad at him that they abandon common sense and not explore the past of a man running for the highest office in the land.

[felix]

[quote=Kilohana]The bottom line is that the “Obama’s Shady Past” narrative was created out of the need to distract voters and candidates from discussing the real issues… Hillary tried it and failed – and now McCain has made it the centerpiece of his campaign.

In fact, McCain’s campaign manager, Rick Davis explained it all perfectly:

“John McCain tried to point out how people should be informed about Barack Obama’s background, including his relationships with domestic terrorists like William Ayers. People are going to form these judgments. It’s great fodder for us to debate every day. I think it’s fun,”

Fun!

I’m sure there will again be skeptics calling me on my lies so here’s a link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8G6dDVjW6c :54 seconds in.

Yes, the Rush quotes were real. Does context really matter when the the topic is the so-called merits of slavery? How about praising the assassin of an American icon and Civil Rights leader? Is there *any* context in which this would be appropriate?

Is this type of dialogue good for America? Is this really who we are?[/quote]

I grew up very close to where BO calls home on Chicago’s south side. It is you who is being willfully ignorant of BO’s past and his corrupt cronys. Anybody who would consider a politician from Illinois, in general, or Chicago, in particular, a good candidate for change or reform must either have a screw loose or be a complete ninny. Illinois and Chicago are known as one of the cesspools of American politics.

Graft, corruption, shady dealings and suspect ties are par for the course. BO’s neighbor, friend and political helper Rezko has just been convicted of a felony and the prosecutors are working hard on him to turn on our Dem governor, who may be our 5 governor in the past 50 years to go to prison for corruption.

The blind hatred of W has made so many folks and the media turn a blind eye to BO’s past and even current ties to the cesspool of Chicago politics. This may be the worse legacy of the Bush presidency. Making folks so mad at him that they abandon common sense and not explore the past of a man running for the highest office in the land.

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