Clairemont – Starter Home -> Rental

[spdrun]

Buying activity has been slower this spring than last year. Plus, we’re going into summer. Few things ever get sold in July and August. In the (low) end of the market that I’m ogling, I already see property sitting on the market for prices where it would have sold like a rocket last June.

[sdduuuude]

[quote=spdrun]Disagree — the equipment in the power plant won’t care about an extra few amps on a short circuit. Grounding is there so appliances with a metal case with a short to the case stay at ground potential (hopefully pop the breaker) vs having a live case and biting someone.[/quote]

A case can be grounded to common with the same effect.

[spdrun]

^^^

Riddle me this:

Equipment is connected between hot and neutral (common). Case is also connected to common. What happens if equipment is turned on, hot is connected and undamaged, the common connection is broken in the cord, and someone is touching the case?

For simplicity’s sake, let’s make that someone butt-naked and standing on wet concrete.

[yipla]

spdrun, when buying activity is slower and few things are sold, does that mean prices actually drop or does it mean sellers will just refuse to sell to lower offers? Does activity pick up again in the fall, or does it stay low until next spring? Maybe I can time my purchase well and get a good price!

[spdrun]

Unknown. The San Diego market has been all over the map and back since 2008-9. Crashed in 2008, picked up in 2010 with the tax credit, dropped again till 2012, took off like a rocket in 2013, leveled off this year.

Take it one day at a time, set your criteria, and keep looking.

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=spdrun]^^^

Riddle me this:

Equipment is connected between hot and neutral (common). Case is also connected to common. What happens if equipment is turned on, hot is connected and undamaged, the common connection is broken in the cord, and someone is touching the case?

For simplicity’s sake, let’s make that someone butt-naked and standing on wet concrete.[/quote]

SDDuuuude already answered it in the above. You just don’t understand the difference.

But you might be right… After all he got his Electrical Engineering degree from U of A… Which is like a cracker jack box… Plus I sure his father was too busy doing other things with his PhD in EE to teach SD anything about electricity.

CE

Go Sun Devils! 😛

[spdrun]

I understand the difference pretty clearly, actually. No need to be a condescending little man. A separate ground path is provided, because if you combine ground and neutral, any break in the neutral will cause normally grounded parts to go HOT.

You’d have the following situation.

H->LOAD->N->human->ground — the neutral/grounded side would be connected to hot through the load, but not tied to ground (0V). Since the load generally has a lower impedance than the human body, you’d have close to 120V across any grounded human that is unfortunate enough to touch the casing.

If it’s combined in the appliance, any break in the cord’s neutral conductor would have this result. If it’s combined in the outlet, any break in the neutral conductor leading to the outlet would have the same result.

Separating neutral and ground at the main breaker box is done for LIFE SAFETY, not for the power company’s safety.

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=spdrun]I understand the difference pretty clearly, actually. No need to be a condescending little man. A separate ground path is provided, because if you combine ground and neutral, any break in the neutral will cause normally grounded parts to go HOT.

You’d have the following situation.

H->LOAD->N->human->ground — the neutral/grounded side would be connected to hot through the load, but not tied to ground (0V). Since the load generally has a lower impedance than the human body, you’d have close to 120V across any grounded human that is unfortunate enough to touch the casing.

If it’s combined in the appliance, any break in the cord’s neutral conductor would have this result. If it’s combined in the outlet, any break in the neutral conductor leading to the outlet would have the same result.

Separating neutral and ground at the main breaker box is done for LIFE SAFETY, not for the power company’s safety.[/quote]

For you… I have no problem being condescending as you are quite frequently rude and condescending yourself. So little man take a look in the mirror or blame it on being a New Yorker.. I really don’t care.

But to discuss your point the two things that you describe above are electrical equivalencies. That is what you fail to recognize. Whether you ground the case or have a ground wire the effects are the same…

To carry the larger and deadlier amount of current through the wire instead of your body.

The ground wire does not carry all the current. Your body is also providing a path for the current as well but that current is very small and, usually less than what will kill you.

As for you argument about circuit breakers I am going to split hairs here. Circuit breakers are not life saving equipment pure and simple. They don’t save lives. Plenty of people have died on a untripped circuit and that is not their intent. A GFCI is a life saving device it, in itself, is a smart circuit breaker but those have only been in vogue for roughly 15 years now. Circuit breakers have always been there.

You only need 2 Amps to kill you. If for some reason there is a fault and you pull 2 Amps across your body and lets say for some reason the grounded instrument only pulls 2 Amps that is going to be far less than the 15 Amps used to trigger the breaker.

And you will be a nice char, where the current passes through you, when the cops finally open the door…

So no… circuit breakers are not life savers they are circuit savers otherwise the need for a GFCI would be unnecessary.

CE

[SD Realtor]

yipla trying to time any market to get things done is challenging but of course can be done in a more macro sense. Even short term real estate trends take awhile to form. Seller psychology is the problem because most of them do not act in a dynamic manner. Thus factors such as inventory growth and slower sales statistics for a few months are generally lost on sellers. Most of them will ignore those factors and price the home according to the previous years conditions/pricing models. The result is they don’t learn for a few months, and by that time they generally decide to relist the following spring or make a more inconsequential reduction. Statistically the highest number of sales (closings of escrow) occurs in March, April, May and June. Meaning most homes go into escrow a month before those listed. Now the best selections of homes available is usually late Feb – May. So does that mean that you get a better deal in November than August? Maybe but maybe not. It may be a better price but on a less desirable house. It is hard to qualify the statement. Furthermore the most ignored factor but the one that is way more important is financing. So to answer you there is not any more appreciable activity in fall then July but the dependencies of the submarket you are looking at, the financing environment, and the overall established trend of the market are way more important. Right now the market in San Diego has been slowing for several months from a closed sales perspective. We have seen inventory growth but sellers have not yet capitulated at all. Lets see what happens in 6 months.

[spdrun]

For you… I have no problem being condescending as you are quite frequently rude and condescending yourself. So little man take a look in the mirror or blame it on being a New Yorker.. I really don’t care.

First of all — … and the horse you rode in on. Good, now we have that out of the way, putz.

As for you argument about circuit breakers I am going to split hairs here.

Second of all, I never made an argument about circuit breakers being life-saving equipment (other than fire-prevention). Sduuuuude did. I actually AGREE with you that GFCIs are for shock safety and breakers are not. And actually, it takes less than two amps (TSOR says a few milliamps in the wrong situation) to be lethal.

PS – Are you arguing just to argue or something? Really confused!
PPS – Drunken posting is typically regretted the next morning…

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=spdrun]

For you… I have no problem being condescending as you are quite frequently rude and condescending yourself. So little man take a look in the mirror or blame it on being a New Yorker.. I really don’t care.

First of all — … and the horse you rode in on. Good, now we have that out of the way, putz.

As for you argument about circuit breakers I am going to split hairs here.

Second of all, I never made an argument about circuit breakers being life-saving equipment (other than fire-prevention). Sduuuuude did. I actually AGREE with you that GFCIs are for shock safety and breakers are not. And actually, it takes less than two amps (TSOR says a few milliamps in the wrong situation) to be lethal.

PS – Are you arguing just to argue or something? Really confused!
PPS – Drunken posting is typically regretted the next morning…[/quote]

Well I admit to being tired when I wrote it but you continue not to understand anything that is presented to you. Nor do you try. You just want to argue… seemingly about everything…

If I cannot make you understand after two very detailed analysis then that is your issue.

Your assertion about life safety has been explained and you are incorrect.

CE

[spdrun]

I never asserted that breakers are primarily for shock safety. Next time, please read the post you’re responding to before you misquote me.

As far as grounding, the power company equipment doesn’t care whether it’s putting 10A through a load or an additional 50mA through a human body. The grounding is there so the latter situation is less likely to arise. If a hot wire shorts to the case, breaker will trip vs making the case hot. If breaker doesn’t trip, the case will still be grounded. GFCI makes the latter situation EVEN less likely to arise.

I already explained why sharing a neutral and ground wire is a bad idea.

Face it: you’re wrong this time. No shame in admitting it.

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=spdrun]I never asserted that breakers are primarily for shock safety. Next time, please read the post you’re responding to before you misquote me.

As far as grounding, the power company equipment doesn’t care whether it’s putting 10A through a load or an additional 50mA through a human body. The grounding is there so the latter situation is less likely to arise. If a hot wire shorts to the case, breaker will trip vs making the case hot. If breaker doesn’t trip, the case will still be grounded. GFCI makes the latter situation EVEN less likely to arise.

I already explained why sharing a neutral and ground wire is a bad idea.

Face it: you’re wrong this time. No shame in admitting it.[/quote]

You’re fun!

CE

[SD Realtor]

Hmmm… the longer I stay away.. the more things stay the same.

[CDMA ENG]

[quote=SD Realtor]Hmmm… the longer I stay away.. the more things stay the same.[/quote]

Comforting? 😛

CE

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