are there new homes in SD without HOA?

[CA renter]

[quote=xiv014]Why is it that most new construction in San Diego have HOAs?[/quote]

“The imposition of an HOA accomplishes several benefits for the municipality. First, these amenities may be burdened with property taxes which would not be the case if the amenities were owned by the municipality. Thus the mandated private amenities are cash generators for the municipalities. Second, the municipalities bear no obligation to maintain the amenities given that they are owned by the HOA. On the other hand, HOA communities are exempt from taxes on certain services provided by the municipality, if the HOA is providing them instead.

In The Voluntary City, published by the libertarian Independent Institute, Donald J. Boudreaux and Randall G. Holcombe argue not in universal favor of homeowners associations, opining that they do not necessarily have advantages over traditional governments. These include the fact that the association’s creator, e.g. a developer, has an incentive to set up a government structured in such a way as to maximize profits and thus increasing the selling price of the property. If a certain decision would increase the selling price of certain parcels and decrease the selling price of others, the developer will choose the option with the highest net income to itself. This will sometimes result in suboptimal outcomes for the homeowners. Jim Fedako has argued that homeowners associations are better than other forms of government, because their powers are limited by contract.[15]”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeowner_association
—————-

IMHO, HOAs and Mello-Roos serve a similar purpose: to enable developers to shift the burden of new infrastructure costs to the new buyers and increase their profits. By utilizing HOA and Mello-Roos schemes, they can charge a higher price up front, and make the buyers pay for the extra development costs over time (the old “how much a month” vs. “total cost” scam — too many people still don’t get it).

There is an upper limit as to how much a new buyer can/will pay for a house. If the developer pays the entire cost for the infrastructure themselves without charging monthly fees into the future, and if they cannot charge more than $XXX,XXX (maximum amount buyers are willing/able to pay for those properties), their profits will be negatively affected.

If they charge $XXX,XXX (same maximum amount as above), but instead of paying the infrastructure costs themselves, they pass these costs onto the buyers in the form of ongoing HOA/M-R fees, they can earn much higher profits.

[UCGal]

[quote=temeculaguy]

For every hoa horror story you may hear, I can tell you about the giant peeing baby fountain in a neighbors front yard, or the baby blue house, or the raiders sheets as curtains for four years, the year round christmas lights, the 9 cars out front, the corn instead of lawn, the urban chickens, the smell of curry in the air 24 hours a day, the monster trucks, boats and dunebuggies on the lawn, the yard appliances, the perimeter fence at a tract house, the weekly garage sales, the unmowed lawns, the trash cans permanently at the curb, the constant rv storage and I’m sure a few other things that you can avoid for the bargain price of $30-$90 a month (what my various hoa’s have been over the years at different houses). We all live together now, we accept each other, but we gotta have a few basic rules. Just pay it, I’ve found it to be some of the best money I’ve ever spent. When I was young I avoided hoa’s cause I was cheap, now it’s a requirement.
[/quote]

You say all that like it’s a bad thing?

As someone who’s trying to talk her husband into urban chickens, and has flowering groundcover instead of lawn in the front, I don’t want someone telling me how to landscape or what (LEGAL) pets I can have. (no worries to my UC brethren, I won’t get a rooster.) I have neighbors with RV’s and boats in their side yards. I’m fine with that. We have big enough lots to accomodate it. They can’t legally park boats/rv’s/cars on the street for more than 3 days – so that’s not an issue.

As far as the trash cans – you are legally limited to 24 hours before/after trash pick up… so again, that’s covered without an HOA.

For me, HOA’s that provide swimming, tennis, etc… that’s giving a value. But an HOA that imposes rules and doesn’t give me benefit other than making the neighborhood cookie cutter… I’ll leave that for those that prefer a more Stepford neighborhood.

I’m not sure how racist neighborhood restrictions equate to HOAs… La Jolla was famous for not allowing Jews to purchase. Obviously, that got eliminated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Jolla#Antisemitism

[bearishgurl]

[quote=UCGal]…I’m not sure how racist neighborhood restrictions equate to HOAs… La Jolla was famous for not allowing Jews to purchase. Obviously, that got eliminated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Jolla#Antisemitism%5B/quote%5D

The Fair Housing Act supersedes all previously recorded CC&R’s (with or without a governing HOA). If they show up in a title report with discriminatory language, that language is stricken.

The Fair Housing Act (Title VIII of the Civil Rights Act of 1968) introduced meaningful federal enforcement mechanisms. It outlawed:

Refusal to sell or rent a dwelling to any person because of race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.

Discrimination based on race, color, religion or national origin in the terms, conditions or privilege of the sale or rental of a dwelling.

Advertising the sale or rental of a dwelling indicating preference of discrimination based on race, color, religion or national origin.

Coercing, threatening, intimidating, or interfering with a person’s enjoyment or exercise of housing rights based on discriminatory reasons or retaliating against a person or organization that aids or encourages the exercise or enjoyment of fair housing rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_housing

Believe it or not, my 65 yo neighborhood has CC&R’s recorded against it in 1947 with language discriminating against fowl, swine and “people of color.” The fowl and swine are still banned, but the “people of color” article is null and void.

My ‘hood is located 8.5 miles from the Int’l Border, lol ….

Thank God for the Civil Rights Act of 1968 and the (CA) Unruh Act.

[The-Shoveler]

When I was a kid one of our neighbors was restoring an old WWII trainer aircraft. He even started it up a few times (that was a real kick !!). I became a private pilot as soon as I could afford it.
Another neighbor worked in construction and hired and trained several of the kids on our block, (he used to park the trucks in the back yard).
Another neighbor was a special effects self-employed guy who had a work shop in the back yard, my buddy growing up used to spend a lot of time there, now he is an award winning special effects Supervisor/Coordinator. For a lot of A list movies.
I doubt any of that would have ever happened growing up in a HOA scrubbed neighborhood,

[CA renter]

[quote=UCGal][quote=temeculaguy]

For every hoa horror story you may hear, I can tell you about the giant peeing baby fountain in a neighbors front yard, or the baby blue house, or the raiders sheets as curtains for four years, the year round christmas lights, the 9 cars out front, the corn instead of lawn, the urban chickens, the smell of curry in the air 24 hours a day, the monster trucks, boats and dunebuggies on the lawn, the yard appliances, the perimeter fence at a tract house, the weekly garage sales, the unmowed lawns, the trash cans permanently at the curb, the constant rv storage and I’m sure a few other things that you can avoid for the bargain price of $30-$90 a month (what my various hoa’s have been over the years at different houses). We all live together now, we accept each other, but we gotta have a few basic rules. Just pay it, I’ve found it to be some of the best money I’ve ever spent. When I was young I avoided hoa’s cause I was cheap, now it’s a requirement.
[/quote]

You say all that like it’s a bad thing?

As someone who’s trying to talk her husband into urban chickens, and has flowering groundcover instead of lawn in the front, I don’t want someone telling me how to landscape or what (LEGAL) pets I can have. (no worries to my UC brethren, I won’t get a rooster.) I have neighbors with RV’s and boats in their side yards. I’m fine with that. We have big enough lots to accomodate it. They can’t legally park boats/rv’s/cars on the street for more than 3 days – so that’s not an issue.

As far as the trash cans – you are legally limited to 24 hours before/after trash pick up… so again, that’s covered without an HOA.

For me, HOA’s that provide swimming, tennis, etc… that’s giving a value. But an HOA that imposes rules and doesn’t give me benefit other than making the neighborhood cookie cutter… I’ll leave that for those that prefer a more Stepford neighborhood.

I’m not sure how racist neighborhood restrictions equate to HOAs… La Jolla was famous for not allowing Jews to purchase. Obviously, that got eliminated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Jolla#Antisemitism%5B/quote%5D

LOL!
I’m trying to convince Mr. CAR to get a few hens, too. 🙂

[scaredyclassic]

I have a dead water heater out front.

I think we will try to sledgebhammer it this weekend so it’ll fit in the recycle bin.

[scaredyclassic]

Urban chickens are hot.

All the cool people have a few.

[temeculaguy]

[quote=UCGal]They can’t legally park boats/rv’s/cars on the street for more than 3 days – so that’s not an issue.
As far as the trash cans – you are legally limited to 24 hours before/after trash pick up… so again, that’s covered without an HOA.[/quote]

That is not a state or federal law, that is a municipal code. Municipal codes only exist in municipalities (cities). Lot’s of new construction is in unicorporated areas as many of the cites are too built out to start a new development. Most people are unaware they live in an unincorporated area (4S ranch, RSF, etc.) without their hoa, total anarchy would prevail. In unicorporated communites (which is a lot more places than you think, fallbrook, valley center, ramona, the aforementioned 4S and RSF) you can legally shoot your guns in the backyard, have whatever animal you want and ride your dirtbikes in the yard. The County is far less restrictive than the cities, many people think any town with a name is a municipality but it’s not true. And this was never a problem because this was ranch land, now it’s tract homes with ranch land laws and no city council to complain to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_County,_California

scroll down to the list of unincorporated cities, more than most people think. So in the absence of a munipal body to create and enforce regulations, the HOA is your only hope. If you already live in a city, yes, your hoa is not neccesarily needed. I’ve had two homes in unicorporated areas, I was glad I had an hoa.

There’s another weird thing when you live in one of the few places that allow almost anything, your neighbors friends all come from their restrictive neighborhoods to engage in whatever they can’t do in their town. So instead of being next door to one family who rides their dirtbikes or shoots their gun on weekends (which would probably be fine, you get ther fifty friends too, yipee!!!

[The-Shoveler]

“So instead of being next door to one family who rides their dirtbikes or shoots their gun on weekends (which would probably be fine, you get ther fifty friends too, yipee!!!”

I think the above is fairly rare. really most are attracted to these hinterlands to get away from neighbors and live in peace (maybe do some farming or raise miniature horse’s stuff like that). And that’s just the guys living on the acreage lots, I doubt very much in the nicer tract home areas without HOA’s very many people are shooting guns in their back yards.

[sdduuuude]

Muni code takes care of most things I care about.

I can see how areas that don’t fall under the Muni code would need HOAs but I can live without them.

One more thing to like about Clairemont and UC.

[xiv014]

It’s too bad that HOAs are so prevalent in the newer areas of San Diego. It really limits the choices out there for those of us who are HOA averse.

[CA renter]

[quote=Nor-LA-SD-GUY2]When I was a kid one of our neighbors was restoring an old WWII trainer aircraft. He even started it up a few times (that was a real kick !!). I became a private pilot as soon as I could afford it.
Another neighbor worked in construction and hired and trained several of the kids on our block, (he used to park the trucks in the back yard).
Another neighbor was a special effects self-employed guy who had a work shop in the back yard, my buddy growing up used to spend a lot of time there, now he is an award winning special effects Supervisor/Coordinator. For a lot of A list movies.
I doubt any of that would have ever happened growing up in a HOA scrubbed neighborhood,[/quote]

Very cool stories, Nor. Ah, the good ol’ days! 🙂

[Coronita]

[quote=Nor-LA-SD-GUY2]When I was a kid one of our neighbors was restoring an old WWII trainer aircraft. He even started it up a few times (that was a real kick !!). I became a private pilot as soon as I could afford it.
Another neighbor worked in construction and hired and trained several of the kids on our block, (he used to park the trucks in the back yard).
Another neighbor was a special effects self-employed guy who had a work shop in the back yard, my buddy growing up used to spend a lot of time there, now he is an award winning special effects Supervisor/Coordinator. For a lot of A list movies.
I doubt any of that would have ever happened growing up in a HOA scrubbed neighborhood,[/quote]

Don’t be so sure. I have had a 1.8T engine from sitting on the garage floor for months while I did stuff to it, and currently have a partially dismounted c320 front end from an otherwise totalled accident that my relative did two months ago. The older neighbors in CV leave me alone. Some young neighbor punk gave me the evil eye one time and told me that HOA rules says no working on cars in garage and no partially dismantled cars in garages… I told them politely that it’s not like I’m going to have a Harley Davidson midnight bash with kegs in the garage and politely told them that if they didn’t like it, report it. But I also gently reminded them that CCRC also says that

(1) “thou shall not use garage a storage or convert garage into entertainment and/or fitness room”
(2) “thou shall not park cars outside unless there are more cars than garage spaces”

and then gently reminded them that they have a nice 3 car garage, with nice fitness center/entertainment center and interestingly none of their 3 cars are in there…”It would be a shame if you had to actually park your cars in there, wouldn’t it?” Never heard from them again…

There’s a hidden rule about HOAs in some of these communities. No one likes being a rat…And everyone is in one way or the other in violation of some HOA..So don’t nit pick on the small stuff.

[svelte]

[quote=temeculaguy][quote=xiv014]Why is it that most new construction in San Diego have HOAs?[/quote]

Because society has evolved and has improved. When my grandfather bought his house, people of a certain race, religion or socio-economic status would rarely dare to live somehwere they didn’t fit in. Then the last 30 years happened and now we need HOA’s. I’ve had houses in both, just go with the HOA. Be accepting of everyone, have neighbors who are different from you, make friends with them, but have the assurance that whatever the 1950’s were afraid of, won’t show up next door.

For every hoa horror story you may hear, I can tell you about the giant peeing baby fountain in a neighbors front yard, or the baby blue house, or the raiders sheets as curtains for four years, the year round christmas lights, the 9 cars out front, the corn instead of lawn, the urban chickens, the smell of curry in the air 24 hours a day, the monster trucks, boats and dunebuggies on the lawn, the yard appliances, the perimeter fence at a tract house, the weekly garage sales, the unmowed lawns, the trash cans permanently at the curb, the constant rv storage and I’m sure a few other things that you can avoid for the bargain price of $30-$90 a month (what my various hoa’s have been over the years at different houses). We all live together now, we accept each other, but we gotta have a few basic rules. Just pay it, I’ve found it to be some of the best money I’ve ever spent. When I was young I avoided hoa’s cause I was cheap, now it’s a requirement.
[/quote]

Another great post TG. I fully agree.

I’ve lived in an HOA, disliked it and bought a new home without an HOA, dosliked that even more and moved back to an HOA.

Yes I have to grit my teeth sometimes at what the HOA does, but you know what? The board members are a great bunch of people who care about their community. And I can tell you without hesitation that the hard work they do – FOR FREE – raises my property value. Driving down my street, the area looks much, much better than the non-HOA area I previously lived – and both areas are about the same age.

If you like independence, eclectic styles, variety, and neighbors with year-round Christmas decorations then avoid an HOA.

If you’d prefer uniform appearance, high degree of upkeep, pride in neighborhood appearance, and a group of your peers driving by your home with a checklist then choose an HOA.

We each have our preference, choose the one that’s right for you.

[bearishgurl]

[quote=xiv014]It’s too bad that HOAs are so prevalent in the newer areas of San Diego. It really limits the choices out there for those of us who are HOA averse.[/quote]

xiv014, the only way your (buying) choices are “limited” here is that you will likely have to purchase an “older” resale to avoid HOA. HOWEVER, that property will undoubtedly be better-located, will likely have a larger lot and likely be situated within walking distance of well-established businesses you would use regularly.

There is no comparison as to which is the better value AND wiser investment, the older property in a well-established (even highly desirable) area OR a newer HOA/MR encumbered property in a less-desirable location. ESPECIALLY if the older property can be purchased under market as a “cosmetic fixer.”

There are also many rural and semi-rural properties without HOAs/MR to choose from in SD County, most on 1-4 AC lots.

You have many more options than you think if you are “HOA averse.”

[Author]

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