Are savers doomed?

[Coronita]

[quote=flyer]It still amazes me that only around 5% of the US population have a sustained net worth of over a million or more–which is really the “bottom
line”–regardless of age–or how you got there.[/quote]

Us peasants aren’t as wealthy as you 🙂

heh heh.

[flyer]

flu, I know you and many other “Piggs” are doing just fine in that regard.

My point was that, per this general discussion concerning savings, investments, which generation has the edge, who made more when, etc., etc.–even after all of these efforts–those who have a net worth of a million or more still stands at around 5%–which just seems disturbingly low to me for the population at large.

[Jazzman]

“[W]e have to live in a high valuation world from now on?” I think that is an interesting question, and the answer is probably that we have been for some time. Rich’s graph shows that US share values have forged ahead of other countries since 2011, and the question is why? When you don’t need to look hard to find confirmation bias, perhaps that’s because it is now just confirmation, and maybe that is all you need to know.

[flyer]

“Retirees face up to the “Million-Dollar Illusion”

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100803102

[CA renter]

[quote=FlyerInHi][quote=CA renter][quote=spdrun]It should stay steady in value, at least (IMHO). People who worked should be allowed to keep their savings, not run on the fucking treadmill like hamsters their whole lives.[/quote]

Agree with this
[/quote]

How does that speak to “idle capital” ?[/quote]

It’s not “idle” if it’s being invested, either directly or indirectly. Even if it’s kept in a savings account, the bank gets to loan out multiples of this money.

Of course, that is (a big, IMO) part of the problem.

[CA renter]

[quote=livinincali][quote=The-Shoveler]”AND who were one of the last generations to do better than the generation ”

IMO this is going to be proven so wrong I don’t know where to start, except that was almost the exact same thing they were telling us in 1976-9 LOL.

First The millennials are going to inherent at least twice as much from the boomers as the boomers got from their parents LOL.

The USA is in a so much more better state than we were in 1980 it is laughable when I hear people talk about the demise of the U.S.A.

Anyway this is pointless so I give up arguing about this anymore.[/quote]

As long as you ignore the liability side of the balance sheet.[/quote]

Exactly.

Still want to hear about the things that will offset these negative trends.

[CA renter]

[quote=The-Shoveler]”AND who were one of the last generations to do better than the generation ”

IMO this is going to be proven so wrong I don’t know where to start, except that was almost the exact same thing they were telling us in 1976-9 LOL.

First The millennials are going to inherent at least twice as much from the boomers as the boomers got from their parents LOL.

The USA is in a so much more better state than we were in 1980 it is laughable when I hear people talk about the demise of the U.S.A.

Anyway this is pointless so I give up arguing about this anymore.[/quote]

I sincerely hope you’re right, Shoveler.

[spdrun]

It’s not “idle” if it’s being invested, either directly or indirectly. Even if it’s kept in a savings account, the bank gets to loan out multiples of this money.

Nothing wrong with “idleness.” Water before a hydroelectric dam is also idle. Theoretically, you don’t need such a big lake, so long as the height of the water column is tall enough. But it comes in really handy when there’s a drought.

Same with money. If people hold it, they can get through a recession (or voluntary period without work) much better. The notion that everyone should be working 50 weeks a year from age 21 to 67 is idiotic.

[FlyerInHi]

CAr, when interest rates are high, money is in short supply. So speculators as you call them, just hold money. They don’t need to buy and sell things to make more money. That’s a great environment for people at the top with loads of cash.

Since you’re a long term deflationist, you shouldn’t lament low interest rates. Just hold cash and it will be worth more with deflation. There’s your nest egg.

[spdrun]

Generally interest rates < inflation rate, so that doesn't really work well.

[FlyerInHi]

spd, money is just an artifice that allows people with money to lay claims on the productivity of others. Unlike gravity, there’s no law of nature governing money.

You get paid in money for your work at a point in time. There’s no guarantee what the money will be worth in the future.

It’s very good for the economy that people should take deliberate action to invest their money. They shouldn’t just be able to hold the money and earn a return above inflation.

[FlyerInHi]

[quote=spdrun]Generally interest rates < inflation rate, so that doesn't really work well.[/quote] Very true. Much better to invest money rather than letting it sit in savings. It's OK to let money sit if you expect deflation.

[spdrun]

It’s very good for the economy that people should take deliberate action to invest their money. They shouldn’t just be able to hold the money and earn a return above inflation.

You mean like putting it in an index fund and getting BS Bernanke bucks back? Isn’t that essentially what happened from 2009 through last year?

I don’t think returns above inflation should be earned, but money should hold its value. People should be able to work intermittently or less than our society’s idea of full hours, recline, occasionally do nothing.

If that slows down the pace of innovation, so be it. We have a few billion more years left before the sun implodes 🙂

[FlyerInHi]

spd, you seem to be doing quite a lot with your condo investing, maybe with the objective of taking it easy later.

But do you think that you’ll eventually relax and spend time getting massages; or will you continue to identify and rollover your money into additional properties at infinitum?

Maybe you will know when enough is enough; but in the aggregate, greed and fear are powerful drivers keeping people on the treadmill. Judging by bulging waistlines, it’s only a figurative treadmill.

[spdrun]

Not doing as much as you think — only have a couple so far.

Honestly, my goal is to at least be able to sit and not have to lift a G-d damned pinky as far as buying or working (renovating is fine because it’s fun), not to slave away till I’m old, limp-dicked, and crippled.

If I end up making $100k per year from investments, essentially indexed for inflation, what more do I need? I don’t have expensive or refined tastes. I travel more like a student, haven’t bought new electronics in years, and have never spent over $3 grand on a car.

As far as the waistline thing, it’s actually a consequence of lack of time between white collar workers. No time to cook healthy food or buy a good lunch. No time to go for a walk in the park with family after hours. No time to visit a national park on one’s vacation, because they only take a week.

France is looking awfully good, even after recent unfortunate events there.

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