$500 Monthly SDG&E Bill (How to reduce?)

[jficquette]

[quote=LuckyInOC]As a previous HVAC design engineer, you may want to do some of the following:

1. Use your Central Gas(?) furnace to keep the whole house at 68-73 deg. during 6am-11pm. Use the setback thermostat to 65 deg. at night. Use the Heat Pumps or other Resistance Heaters to heat the required rooms to 78 deg as required. This will use the gas as the main source (cheapest) to heat the majority of the house. The inefficient Heat Pumps will work better only to heat the additional 5 deg. The inefficient Heat Pumps are trying to heat the rest of the house even if they are in closed rooms. Inside walls are not usually insulated.

2. If you don’t have dual-pane windows, have them installed. My ’80s 2700 sf house had 27 single-pane windows. We replaced them with dual-pane low-e windows. We hardly use our Central HVAC now. We only turn on 1500w plug-in heaters in the rooms where occupied and use fans in the summer. I am thinking to put a whole house fan in this year. We don’t mind our house at 68 deg during winter and 78 deg during summer. We live in North OC where it get rarely above 90 deg.

Also, I heard they may be starting up a new show ‘The Real Housewives of San Diego’. Your wife sounds like a good candidate…

Lucky In OC

[/quote]

I love Attic fans. I grew up in the south and most houses built pre 1960 had them.

The noise they made at night were great for putting us kids to sleep. Something about that steady drone.

John

[Coronita]

[quote=LuckyInOC]All attics are ventilated. Good insulation (R-30+) above the ceiling makes venting the attic much better and less of an energy hit. Good ventilation in the attic also prolongs your roof from overheating, especially for standard composition roofs.

Unfortunately, my house is 90% cathedral ceilings: upstairs Master Bed & Bath, (2) Bedrooms, Bonus Room. I have a small attic above the hall way and one bathroom upstairs. I have to calculate the free area of the vents see how much fan (CFM) I can use. It may not be enough to make a big enough difference. But you must have good outside air quality to use a whole house fan and little or no allergies.

I am thinking to put a drop insulated ceiling the 2 bedrooms for better comfort and less heating in the rooms. 75% of the room capacity is above 8 ft.

For us, the dual-pane windows was more for:
1. Air (Dirt) Infiltration during Santa Ana’s.
2. Temperature Comfort
3. Building Aesthetics
4. Noise Control
5. UV Control
6. Energy Savings

Our payback for our windows is something like 11 years and we paid only $10k for the windows, much less than most would have. We had quotes up to $30-40k. Last year electric bill for winter (3 mos) is $100 per month. $50 in summer with fans & no AC. Our gas averages about $40 per month. We might be saving $25 per month due to the windows, probably less.

Invest $10-20k SCE, SDG&E, &/or Sempra and offset your energy bills from the income, inflation proof.
Its kind of like using a Discover card, pay yourself.

Lucky In OC
[/quote]

Do they sell triple pane glass here in CA. If so, any more efficient than double?

Also one big drawback I’m finding with double pane…. When you have a pressure leak, its the suck.

[Coronita]

[quote=LuckyInOC]All attics are ventilated. Good insulation (R-30+) above the ceiling makes venting the attic much better and less of an energy hit. Good ventilation in the attic also prolongs your roof from overheating, especially for standard composition roofs.

Unfortunately, my house is 90% cathedral ceilings: upstairs Master Bed & Bath, (2) Bedrooms, Bonus Room. I have a small attic above the hall way and one bathroom upstairs. I have to calculate the free area of the vents see how much fan (CFM) I can use. It may not be enough to make a big enough difference. But you must have good outside air quality to use a whole house fan and little or no allergies.

I am thinking to put a drop insulated ceiling the 2 bedrooms for better comfort and less heating in the rooms. 75% of the room capacity is above 8 ft.

For us, the dual-pane windows was more for:
1. Air (Dirt) Infiltration during Santa Ana’s.
2. Temperature Comfort
3. Building Aesthetics
4. Noise Control
5. UV Control
6. Energy Savings

Our payback for our windows is something like 11 years and we paid only $10k for the windows, much less than most would have. We had quotes up to $30-40k. Last year electric bill for winter (3 mos) is $100 per month. $50 in summer with fans & no AC. Our gas averages about $40 per month. We might be saving $25 per month due to the windows, probably less.

Invest $10-20k SCE, SDG&E, &/or Sempra and offset your energy bills from the income, inflation proof.
Its kind of like using a Discover card, pay yourself.

Lucky In OC
[/quote]

Do they sell triple pane glass here in CA. If so, any more efficient than double?

Also one big drawback I’m finding with double pane…. When you have a pressure leak, its the suck.

[Coronita]

[quote=LuckyInOC]All attics are ventilated. Good insulation (R-30+) above the ceiling makes venting the attic much better and less of an energy hit. Good ventilation in the attic also prolongs your roof from overheating, especially for standard composition roofs.

Unfortunately, my house is 90% cathedral ceilings: upstairs Master Bed & Bath, (2) Bedrooms, Bonus Room. I have a small attic above the hall way and one bathroom upstairs. I have to calculate the free area of the vents see how much fan (CFM) I can use. It may not be enough to make a big enough difference. But you must have good outside air quality to use a whole house fan and little or no allergies.

I am thinking to put a drop insulated ceiling the 2 bedrooms for better comfort and less heating in the rooms. 75% of the room capacity is above 8 ft.

For us, the dual-pane windows was more for:
1. Air (Dirt) Infiltration during Santa Ana’s.
2. Temperature Comfort
3. Building Aesthetics
4. Noise Control
5. UV Control
6. Energy Savings

Our payback for our windows is something like 11 years and we paid only $10k for the windows, much less than most would have. We had quotes up to $30-40k. Last year electric bill for winter (3 mos) is $100 per month. $50 in summer with fans & no AC. Our gas averages about $40 per month. We might be saving $25 per month due to the windows, probably less.

Invest $10-20k SCE, SDG&E, &/or Sempra and offset your energy bills from the income, inflation proof.
Its kind of like using a Discover card, pay yourself.

Lucky In OC
[/quote]

Do they sell triple pane glass here in CA. If so, any more efficient than double?

Also one big drawback I’m finding with double pane…. When you have a pressure leak, its the suck.

[Coronita]

[quote=LuckyInOC]All attics are ventilated. Good insulation (R-30+) above the ceiling makes venting the attic much better and less of an energy hit. Good ventilation in the attic also prolongs your roof from overheating, especially for standard composition roofs.

Unfortunately, my house is 90% cathedral ceilings: upstairs Master Bed & Bath, (2) Bedrooms, Bonus Room. I have a small attic above the hall way and one bathroom upstairs. I have to calculate the free area of the vents see how much fan (CFM) I can use. It may not be enough to make a big enough difference. But you must have good outside air quality to use a whole house fan and little or no allergies.

I am thinking to put a drop insulated ceiling the 2 bedrooms for better comfort and less heating in the rooms. 75% of the room capacity is above 8 ft.

For us, the dual-pane windows was more for:
1. Air (Dirt) Infiltration during Santa Ana’s.
2. Temperature Comfort
3. Building Aesthetics
4. Noise Control
5. UV Control
6. Energy Savings

Our payback for our windows is something like 11 years and we paid only $10k for the windows, much less than most would have. We had quotes up to $30-40k. Last year electric bill for winter (3 mos) is $100 per month. $50 in summer with fans & no AC. Our gas averages about $40 per month. We might be saving $25 per month due to the windows, probably less.

Invest $10-20k SCE, SDG&E, &/or Sempra and offset your energy bills from the income, inflation proof.
Its kind of like using a Discover card, pay yourself.

Lucky In OC
[/quote]

Do they sell triple pane glass here in CA. If so, any more efficient than double?

Also one big drawback I’m finding with double pane…. When you have a pressure leak, its the suck.

[Coronita]

[quote=LuckyInOC]All attics are ventilated. Good insulation (R-30+) above the ceiling makes venting the attic much better and less of an energy hit. Good ventilation in the attic also prolongs your roof from overheating, especially for standard composition roofs.

Unfortunately, my house is 90% cathedral ceilings: upstairs Master Bed & Bath, (2) Bedrooms, Bonus Room. I have a small attic above the hall way and one bathroom upstairs. I have to calculate the free area of the vents see how much fan (CFM) I can use. It may not be enough to make a big enough difference. But you must have good outside air quality to use a whole house fan and little or no allergies.

I am thinking to put a drop insulated ceiling the 2 bedrooms for better comfort and less heating in the rooms. 75% of the room capacity is above 8 ft.

For us, the dual-pane windows was more for:
1. Air (Dirt) Infiltration during Santa Ana’s.
2. Temperature Comfort
3. Building Aesthetics
4. Noise Control
5. UV Control
6. Energy Savings

Our payback for our windows is something like 11 years and we paid only $10k for the windows, much less than most would have. We had quotes up to $30-40k. Last year electric bill for winter (3 mos) is $100 per month. $50 in summer with fans & no AC. Our gas averages about $40 per month. We might be saving $25 per month due to the windows, probably less.

Invest $10-20k SCE, SDG&E, &/or Sempra and offset your energy bills from the income, inflation proof.
Its kind of like using a Discover card, pay yourself.

Lucky In OC
[/quote]

Do they sell triple pane glass here in CA. If so, any more efficient than double?

Also one big drawback I’m finding with double pane…. When you have a pressure leak, its the suck.

[LuckyInOC]

It all depends on the purpose and area of the windows used in the building system. The walls and windows in a building is a energy system just as much as the HVAC system is.

For instance in So. Cal., if you have a room with a large south facing window, which would be better in winter: 1) a clear triple-pane window or 2) a low-e double-pane window. #2 would usually be better. The sunlight will have a bigger energy impact than thermal properties of the two windows.

Think of the # of panes as as you would wall insulation (R-11, R-13, R-19, R-30). More panes have more insulation for thermal loads. The more glass you have, the more R-Value you need to meet the minimum average R-Value for Walls for Title 24 requirements. Clear single-pane is about R-1. Clear double-pane Glass is about R-2. Low-E double-pane glass is about R-2.6 to R-3.5. Low-E triple-pane glass is about R-3.5 to R-5.6. In order to put a lot of glass in homes you must increase the R-value of the walls. This means going to 2×6 wall construction with R-30.

Windows also allow solar heat gains. To minimize this effect, films (measured in shading coefficients) are applied to the inside surfaces of the glass in warmer climates. In colder climates, this costs heating energy in the winter.

I use to do energy studies and Title 24’s for commercial buildings. Based on the amount of glazing designed into the building, we would tell the architect what type glazing was need: Single, Double, or Triple pane and shading coefficient. Sometimes they would come back after reducing the window height, adding overhangs and/or wing walls to provide more shading effects.

For most of So. Cal., where temps are usually less than +/- 20 deg delta from inside temps, energy savings or thermal comfort would not be a driving reason for using triple-pane glass. Noise may be an issue to use triple-pane if you live next to a busy road, highway or airport.

Btw, I work near Torrance Med. Love seeing those Robinson copters fly over our building.

Lucky in OC

[LuckyInOC]

It all depends on the purpose and area of the windows used in the building system. The walls and windows in a building is a energy system just as much as the HVAC system is.

For instance in So. Cal., if you have a room with a large south facing window, which would be better in winter: 1) a clear triple-pane window or 2) a low-e double-pane window. #2 would usually be better. The sunlight will have a bigger energy impact than thermal properties of the two windows.

Think of the # of panes as as you would wall insulation (R-11, R-13, R-19, R-30). More panes have more insulation for thermal loads. The more glass you have, the more R-Value you need to meet the minimum average R-Value for Walls for Title 24 requirements. Clear single-pane is about R-1. Clear double-pane Glass is about R-2. Low-E double-pane glass is about R-2.6 to R-3.5. Low-E triple-pane glass is about R-3.5 to R-5.6. In order to put a lot of glass in homes you must increase the R-value of the walls. This means going to 2×6 wall construction with R-30.

Windows also allow solar heat gains. To minimize this effect, films (measured in shading coefficients) are applied to the inside surfaces of the glass in warmer climates. In colder climates, this costs heating energy in the winter.

I use to do energy studies and Title 24’s for commercial buildings. Based on the amount of glazing designed into the building, we would tell the architect what type glazing was need: Single, Double, or Triple pane and shading coefficient. Sometimes they would come back after reducing the window height, adding overhangs and/or wing walls to provide more shading effects.

For most of So. Cal., where temps are usually less than +/- 20 deg delta from inside temps, energy savings or thermal comfort would not be a driving reason for using triple-pane glass. Noise may be an issue to use triple-pane if you live next to a busy road, highway or airport.

Btw, I work near Torrance Med. Love seeing those Robinson copters fly over our building.

Lucky in OC

[LuckyInOC]

It all depends on the purpose and area of the windows used in the building system. The walls and windows in a building is a energy system just as much as the HVAC system is.

For instance in So. Cal., if you have a room with a large south facing window, which would be better in winter: 1) a clear triple-pane window or 2) a low-e double-pane window. #2 would usually be better. The sunlight will have a bigger energy impact than thermal properties of the two windows.

Think of the # of panes as as you would wall insulation (R-11, R-13, R-19, R-30). More panes have more insulation for thermal loads. The more glass you have, the more R-Value you need to meet the minimum average R-Value for Walls for Title 24 requirements. Clear single-pane is about R-1. Clear double-pane Glass is about R-2. Low-E double-pane glass is about R-2.6 to R-3.5. Low-E triple-pane glass is about R-3.5 to R-5.6. In order to put a lot of glass in homes you must increase the R-value of the walls. This means going to 2×6 wall construction with R-30.

Windows also allow solar heat gains. To minimize this effect, films (measured in shading coefficients) are applied to the inside surfaces of the glass in warmer climates. In colder climates, this costs heating energy in the winter.

I use to do energy studies and Title 24’s for commercial buildings. Based on the amount of glazing designed into the building, we would tell the architect what type glazing was need: Single, Double, or Triple pane and shading coefficient. Sometimes they would come back after reducing the window height, adding overhangs and/or wing walls to provide more shading effects.

For most of So. Cal., where temps are usually less than +/- 20 deg delta from inside temps, energy savings or thermal comfort would not be a driving reason for using triple-pane glass. Noise may be an issue to use triple-pane if you live next to a busy road, highway or airport.

Btw, I work near Torrance Med. Love seeing those Robinson copters fly over our building.

Lucky in OC

[LuckyInOC]

It all depends on the purpose and area of the windows used in the building system. The walls and windows in a building is a energy system just as much as the HVAC system is.

For instance in So. Cal., if you have a room with a large south facing window, which would be better in winter: 1) a clear triple-pane window or 2) a low-e double-pane window. #2 would usually be better. The sunlight will have a bigger energy impact than thermal properties of the two windows.

Think of the # of panes as as you would wall insulation (R-11, R-13, R-19, R-30). More panes have more insulation for thermal loads. The more glass you have, the more R-Value you need to meet the minimum average R-Value for Walls for Title 24 requirements. Clear single-pane is about R-1. Clear double-pane Glass is about R-2. Low-E double-pane glass is about R-2.6 to R-3.5. Low-E triple-pane glass is about R-3.5 to R-5.6. In order to put a lot of glass in homes you must increase the R-value of the walls. This means going to 2×6 wall construction with R-30.

Windows also allow solar heat gains. To minimize this effect, films (measured in shading coefficients) are applied to the inside surfaces of the glass in warmer climates. In colder climates, this costs heating energy in the winter.

I use to do energy studies and Title 24’s for commercial buildings. Based on the amount of glazing designed into the building, we would tell the architect what type glazing was need: Single, Double, or Triple pane and shading coefficient. Sometimes they would come back after reducing the window height, adding overhangs and/or wing walls to provide more shading effects.

For most of So. Cal., where temps are usually less than +/- 20 deg delta from inside temps, energy savings or thermal comfort would not be a driving reason for using triple-pane glass. Noise may be an issue to use triple-pane if you live next to a busy road, highway or airport.

Btw, I work near Torrance Med. Love seeing those Robinson copters fly over our building.

Lucky in OC

[LuckyInOC]

It all depends on the purpose and area of the windows used in the building system. The walls and windows in a building is a energy system just as much as the HVAC system is.

For instance in So. Cal., if you have a room with a large south facing window, which would be better in winter: 1) a clear triple-pane window or 2) a low-e double-pane window. #2 would usually be better. The sunlight will have a bigger energy impact than thermal properties of the two windows.

Think of the # of panes as as you would wall insulation (R-11, R-13, R-19, R-30). More panes have more insulation for thermal loads. The more glass you have, the more R-Value you need to meet the minimum average R-Value for Walls for Title 24 requirements. Clear single-pane is about R-1. Clear double-pane Glass is about R-2. Low-E double-pane glass is about R-2.6 to R-3.5. Low-E triple-pane glass is about R-3.5 to R-5.6. In order to put a lot of glass in homes you must increase the R-value of the walls. This means going to 2×6 wall construction with R-30.

Windows also allow solar heat gains. To minimize this effect, films (measured in shading coefficients) are applied to the inside surfaces of the glass in warmer climates. In colder climates, this costs heating energy in the winter.

I use to do energy studies and Title 24’s for commercial buildings. Based on the amount of glazing designed into the building, we would tell the architect what type glazing was need: Single, Double, or Triple pane and shading coefficient. Sometimes they would come back after reducing the window height, adding overhangs and/or wing walls to provide more shading effects.

For most of So. Cal., where temps are usually less than +/- 20 deg delta from inside temps, energy savings or thermal comfort would not be a driving reason for using triple-pane glass. Noise may be an issue to use triple-pane if you live next to a busy road, highway or airport.

Btw, I work near Torrance Med. Love seeing those Robinson copters fly over our building.

Lucky in OC

[EconProf]

A few tips about windows:
Triple-pane is seldom cost effective. Super expensive to buy, and hellishly costly to replace when broken or the air seal inside fails (as it eventually will) and they get foggy. Also, weight becomes a real problem as they are hard to open and shut and the rollers can’t handle the load and fail.
Tinting can make sense, but mostly on the south side of the building, and never on the north side. Don’t be talked into too heavy a tint–it can block your view.
Big overhangs are best sun-blocks if they can be made part of your building, as are strategically placed trees.
Be careful about shopping for a house this time of year with “great sunset views from lots of big view windows”. You could be buying a summer solar oven.

[EconProf]

A few tips about windows:
Triple-pane is seldom cost effective. Super expensive to buy, and hellishly costly to replace when broken or the air seal inside fails (as it eventually will) and they get foggy. Also, weight becomes a real problem as they are hard to open and shut and the rollers can’t handle the load and fail.
Tinting can make sense, but mostly on the south side of the building, and never on the north side. Don’t be talked into too heavy a tint–it can block your view.
Big overhangs are best sun-blocks if they can be made part of your building, as are strategically placed trees.
Be careful about shopping for a house this time of year with “great sunset views from lots of big view windows”. You could be buying a summer solar oven.

[EconProf]

A few tips about windows:
Triple-pane is seldom cost effective. Super expensive to buy, and hellishly costly to replace when broken or the air seal inside fails (as it eventually will) and they get foggy. Also, weight becomes a real problem as they are hard to open and shut and the rollers can’t handle the load and fail.
Tinting can make sense, but mostly on the south side of the building, and never on the north side. Don’t be talked into too heavy a tint–it can block your view.
Big overhangs are best sun-blocks if they can be made part of your building, as are strategically placed trees.
Be careful about shopping for a house this time of year with “great sunset views from lots of big view windows”. You could be buying a summer solar oven.

[EconProf]

A few tips about windows:
Triple-pane is seldom cost effective. Super expensive to buy, and hellishly costly to replace when broken or the air seal inside fails (as it eventually will) and they get foggy. Also, weight becomes a real problem as they are hard to open and shut and the rollers can’t handle the load and fail.
Tinting can make sense, but mostly on the south side of the building, and never on the north side. Don’t be talked into too heavy a tint–it can block your view.
Big overhangs are best sun-blocks if they can be made part of your building, as are strategically placed trees.
Be careful about shopping for a house this time of year with “great sunset views from lots of big view windows”. You could be buying a summer solar oven.

[Author]

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