Forum Replies Created
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AuthorPosts
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zk
ParticipantNice picture, too, Rich
Participant[quote=Djshakes]
I wasn’t around when Jerry was in office before. I hear from some that he is a loon, some say he is in the union’s pockets, some liked him. I have never heard anyone give him rave reviews….which makes me wonder why this state would elect him a second term.[/quote]
I wasn’t in California for his first term, either. What I know about him is his record, what I read about him, and what I hear when he talks. When he served as Governor in the ’70’s he was somewhat fiscally conservative. I like that. He used to show up on KNX 1070 regularly, and I liked what he had to say and how he said it. He doesn’t talk like a politician and he doesn’t appear to think like one. He had a lot of common sense ideas on a lot of things (I must admit I don’t remember what they were. I just remember thinking that they sounded like good, sensible ideas.) Not sure if that qualifies as a rave review, but I really like him.
As far as giving him a second chance, he said he’d take the real actions necessary to fix the budget. I’m probably giving the voters too much credit to think that’s why they elected him. But that’s why I voted for him. Some say that Whitman would’ve been better for the budget. But, really, when’s the last time you saw any politician take the kind of steps Brown is taking right now? And would we really expect her to take them? He’s making hard, unpopular, real choices that are necessary to fix our budget. You can argue that higher taxes will cause more harm than good to an economy and therefore a budget. But right now there just isn’t enough that you can realistically cut and make it work without raising taxes. Unless you count the unrealistic “greater efficiency” goals that many put forth. I’m all for efficiency in government, but you have to be realistic when saying that you can reduce spending by drastic amounts just by improving efficiency.
[quote=Djshakes]
I’m all for giving someone a second chance. I am apprehensive as if you can’t get it done the first time than most likely the same approach won’t work a second. However, maybe he will take a different approach. We will have to see.[/quote]
I wouldn’t say he didn’t get it done the first time (fiscally). And I think he’s already taking a different approach from last time, because the situation is different. We’ll see if it works or not.
[quote=Djshakes]
I don’t think the thread is about his performance as he has recently been elected. I think it is about the years of politics that got us into this mess from both sides of the isle and if it is too far gone to fix. Have we passed the tipping point? I think half would argue we have.[/quote]I agree with that. Have we passed the tipping point? I don’t know. But I think that if we haven’t, then drastic measures are necessary to avoid reaching it. And I think Brown is just the guy to take those measures.
Participant[quote=Djshakes]
I wasn’t around when Jerry was in office before. I hear from some that he is a loon, some say he is in the union’s pockets, some liked him. I have never heard anyone give him rave reviews….which makes me wonder why this state would elect him a second term.[/quote]
I wasn’t in California for his first term, either. What I know about him is his record, what I read about him, and what I hear when he talks. When he served as Governor in the ’70’s he was somewhat fiscally conservative. I like that. He used to show up on KNX 1070 regularly, and I liked what he had to say and how he said it. He doesn’t talk like a politician and he doesn’t appear to think like one. He had a lot of common sense ideas on a lot of things (I must admit I don’t remember what they were. I just remember thinking that they sounded like good, sensible ideas.) Not sure if that qualifies as a rave review, but I really like him.
As far as giving him a second chance, he said he’d take the real actions necessary to fix the budget. I’m probably giving the voters too much credit to think that’s why they elected him. But that’s why I voted for him. Some say that Whitman would’ve been better for the budget. But, really, when’s the last time you saw any politician take the kind of steps Brown is taking right now? And would we really expect her to take them? He’s making hard, unpopular, real choices that are necessary to fix our budget. You can argue that higher taxes will cause more harm than good to an economy and therefore a budget. But right now there just isn’t enough that you can realistically cut and make it work without raising taxes. Unless you count the unrealistic “greater efficiency” goals that many put forth. I’m all for efficiency in government, but you have to be realistic when saying that you can reduce spending by drastic amounts just by improving efficiency.
[quote=Djshakes]
I’m all for giving someone a second chance. I am apprehensive as if you can’t get it done the first time than most likely the same approach won’t work a second. However, maybe he will take a different approach. We will have to see.[/quote]
I wouldn’t say he didn’t get it done the first time (fiscally). And I think he’s already taking a different approach from last time, because the situation is different. We’ll see if it works or not.
[quote=Djshakes]
I don’t think the thread is about his performance as he has recently been elected. I think it is about the years of politics that got us into this mess from both sides of the isle and if it is too far gone to fix. Have we passed the tipping point? I think half would argue we have.[/quote]I agree with that. Have we passed the tipping point? I don’t know. But I think that if we haven’t, then drastic measures are necessary to avoid reaching it. And I think Brown is just the guy to take those measures.
Participant[quote=Djshakes]
I wasn’t around when Jerry was in office before. I hear from some that he is a loon, some say he is in the union’s pockets, some liked him. I have never heard anyone give him rave reviews….which makes me wonder why this state would elect him a second term.[/quote]
I wasn’t in California for his first term, either. What I know about him is his record, what I read about him, and what I hear when he talks. When he served as Governor in the ’70’s he was somewhat fiscally conservative. I like that. He used to show up on KNX 1070 regularly, and I liked what he had to say and how he said it. He doesn’t talk like a politician and he doesn’t appear to think like one. He had a lot of common sense ideas on a lot of things (I must admit I don’t remember what they were. I just remember thinking that they sounded like good, sensible ideas.) Not sure if that qualifies as a rave review, but I really like him.
As far as giving him a second chance, he said he’d take the real actions necessary to fix the budget. I’m probably giving the voters too much credit to think that’s why they elected him. But that’s why I voted for him. Some say that Whitman would’ve been better for the budget. But, really, when’s the last time you saw any politician take the kind of steps Brown is taking right now? And would we really expect her to take them? He’s making hard, unpopular, real choices that are necessary to fix our budget. You can argue that higher taxes will cause more harm than good to an economy and therefore a budget. But right now there just isn’t enough that you can realistically cut and make it work without raising taxes. Unless you count the unrealistic “greater efficiency” goals that many put forth. I’m all for efficiency in government, but you have to be realistic when saying that you can reduce spending by drastic amounts just by improving efficiency.
[quote=Djshakes]
I’m all for giving someone a second chance. I am apprehensive as if you can’t get it done the first time than most likely the same approach won’t work a second. However, maybe he will take a different approach. We will have to see.[/quote]
I wouldn’t say he didn’t get it done the first time (fiscally). And I think he’s already taking a different approach from last time, because the situation is different. We’ll see if it works or not.
[quote=Djshakes]
I don’t think the thread is about his performance as he has recently been elected. I think it is about the years of politics that got us into this mess from both sides of the isle and if it is too far gone to fix. Have we passed the tipping point? I think half would argue we have.[/quote]I agree with that. Have we passed the tipping point? I don’t know. But I think that if we haven’t, then drastic measures are necessary to avoid reaching it. And I think Brown is just the guy to take those measures.
Participant[quote=Djshakes]
I wasn’t around when Jerry was in office before. I hear from some that he is a loon, some say he is in the union’s pockets, some liked him. I have never heard anyone give him rave reviews….which makes me wonder why this state would elect him a second term.[/quote]
I wasn’t in California for his first term, either. What I know about him is his record, what I read about him, and what I hear when he talks. When he served as Governor in the ’70’s he was somewhat fiscally conservative. I like that. He used to show up on KNX 1070 regularly, and I liked what he had to say and how he said it. He doesn’t talk like a politician and he doesn’t appear to think like one. He had a lot of common sense ideas on a lot of things (I must admit I don’t remember what they were. I just remember thinking that they sounded like good, sensible ideas.) Not sure if that qualifies as a rave review, but I really like him.
As far as giving him a second chance, he said he’d take the real actions necessary to fix the budget. I’m probably giving the voters too much credit to think that’s why they elected him. But that’s why I voted for him. Some say that Whitman would’ve been better for the budget. But, really, when’s the last time you saw any politician take the kind of steps Brown is taking right now? And would we really expect her to take them? He’s making hard, unpopular, real choices that are necessary to fix our budget. You can argue that higher taxes will cause more harm than good to an economy and therefore a budget. But right now there just isn’t enough that you can realistically cut and make it work without raising taxes. Unless you count the unrealistic “greater efficiency” goals that many put forth. I’m all for efficiency in government, but you have to be realistic when saying that you can reduce spending by drastic amounts just by improving efficiency.
[quote=Djshakes]
I’m all for giving someone a second chance. I am apprehensive as if you can’t get it done the first time than most likely the same approach won’t work a second. However, maybe he will take a different approach. We will have to see.[/quote]
I wouldn’t say he didn’t get it done the first time (fiscally). And I think he’s already taking a different approach from last time, because the situation is different. We’ll see if it works or not.
[quote=Djshakes]
I don’t think the thread is about his performance as he has recently been elected. I think it is about the years of politics that got us into this mess from both sides of the isle and if it is too far gone to fix. Have we passed the tipping point? I think half would argue we have.[/quote]I agree with that. Have we passed the tipping point? I don’t know. But I think that if we haven’t, then drastic measures are necessary to avoid reaching it. And I think Brown is just the guy to take those measures.
Participant[quote=Djshakes]
I wasn’t around when Jerry was in office before. I hear from some that he is a loon, some say he is in the union’s pockets, some liked him. I have never heard anyone give him rave reviews….which makes me wonder why this state would elect him a second term.[/quote]
I wasn’t in California for his first term, either. What I know about him is his record, what I read about him, and what I hear when he talks. When he served as Governor in the ’70’s he was somewhat fiscally conservative. I like that. He used to show up on KNX 1070 regularly, and I liked what he had to say and how he said it. He doesn’t talk like a politician and he doesn’t appear to think like one. He had a lot of common sense ideas on a lot of things (I must admit I don’t remember what they were. I just remember thinking that they sounded like good, sensible ideas.) Not sure if that qualifies as a rave review, but I really like him.
As far as giving him a second chance, he said he’d take the real actions necessary to fix the budget. I’m probably giving the voters too much credit to think that’s why they elected him. But that’s why I voted for him. Some say that Whitman would’ve been better for the budget. But, really, when’s the last time you saw any politician take the kind of steps Brown is taking right now? And would we really expect her to take them? He’s making hard, unpopular, real choices that are necessary to fix our budget. You can argue that higher taxes will cause more harm than good to an economy and therefore a budget. But right now there just isn’t enough that you can realistically cut and make it work without raising taxes. Unless you count the unrealistic “greater efficiency” goals that many put forth. I’m all for efficiency in government, but you have to be realistic when saying that you can reduce spending by drastic amounts just by improving efficiency.
[quote=Djshakes]
I’m all for giving someone a second chance. I am apprehensive as if you can’t get it done the first time than most likely the same approach won’t work a second. However, maybe he will take a different approach. We will have to see.[/quote]
I wouldn’t say he didn’t get it done the first time (fiscally). And I think he’s already taking a different approach from last time, because the situation is different. We’ll see if it works or not.
[quote=Djshakes]
I don’t think the thread is about his performance as he has recently been elected. I think it is about the years of politics that got us into this mess from both sides of the isle and if it is too far gone to fix. Have we passed the tipping point? I think half would argue we have.[/quote]I agree with that. Have we passed the tipping point? I don’t know. But I think that if we haven’t, then drastic measures are necessary to avoid reaching it. And I think Brown is just the guy to take those measures.
Participant[quote=Djshakes]
The thread hit page four and was already pretty far off of its intended mark. So I got a little slap happy. Big deal.[/quote]
It’s not a big deal. I was just exposing it for what it was. Which was thoughtless, ridiculous partisan slapfighting.
[quote=Djshakes]
I suggest you read a majority of my posts before making quick snap judgments.
[/quote]
I’m not making any snap judgement. I’ve been observing our nation’s political discourse for a couple decades, and I’ve noticed over that time that, to an ever-increasing degree, the discussion is dominated by point scoring and that a real exchange of ideas is rare.
[quote=Djshakes]
I’m reading a lot of whining in your post and little of what you are whining about, suggestions to fix the problem. [/quote]
Wow, have you ever got that all wrong.
First of all, you’ll have to show me the parts that you consider “whining.” Or is that just more of your thoughtless slapfighting?
[quote=Djshakes]
I just re-read every post you had in this thread and you offered absolutely 0 to the thread[/quote]I haven’t offered my suggestions to fix the budget because I think Jerry Brown is doing it mostly right. I’d be a little harsher on illegal immigrants (if it would save money, which it might) and I’d handle prisoners a bit differently. But those are minor quibbles and, like I said, I think he’s doing a great job. He’s our first fiscally responsible governor in a long, long time. So, if I think he’s doing it mostly right, my suggestion would be to support him. Perhaps I should’ve made that more clear.
My other point would be that bitching about Jerry Brown without having any idea what you would do that would actually work subtracts from the discourse rather than adding to it.
[quote=Djshakes]
other than asking snide questions of other posters diverting responsibility to offer any original though.
[/quote]Snide questions? Asking someone what better ideas they have than someone they’re saying has bad ideas? Is that what you’re talking about? Explain how those are snide questions.
[quote=Djshakes]Contribute or STFU. We have enough whiners on here already.[/quote]
Again, show me the whining.
As far as my contributions:
I was trying to get an exchange of ideas started on the budget. My method involves asking questions. Had they been answered, they would’ve been followed by a discussion. They weren’t answered, so no discussion ensued between me and the people I was asking questions. If you want to answer what you would do, I’d be happy to have a discussion about it.
Participant[quote=Djshakes]
The thread hit page four and was already pretty far off of its intended mark. So I got a little slap happy. Big deal.[/quote]
It’s not a big deal. I was just exposing it for what it was. Which was thoughtless, ridiculous partisan slapfighting.
[quote=Djshakes]
I suggest you read a majority of my posts before making quick snap judgments.
[/quote]
I’m not making any snap judgement. I’ve been observing our nation’s political discourse for a couple decades, and I’ve noticed over that time that, to an ever-increasing degree, the discussion is dominated by point scoring and that a real exchange of ideas is rare.
[quote=Djshakes]
I’m reading a lot of whining in your post and little of what you are whining about, suggestions to fix the problem. [/quote]
Wow, have you ever got that all wrong.
First of all, you’ll have to show me the parts that you consider “whining.” Or is that just more of your thoughtless slapfighting?
[quote=Djshakes]
I just re-read every post you had in this thread and you offered absolutely 0 to the thread[/quote]I haven’t offered my suggestions to fix the budget because I think Jerry Brown is doing it mostly right. I’d be a little harsher on illegal immigrants (if it would save money, which it might) and I’d handle prisoners a bit differently. But those are minor quibbles and, like I said, I think he’s doing a great job. He’s our first fiscally responsible governor in a long, long time. So, if I think he’s doing it mostly right, my suggestion would be to support him. Perhaps I should’ve made that more clear.
My other point would be that bitching about Jerry Brown without having any idea what you would do that would actually work subtracts from the discourse rather than adding to it.
[quote=Djshakes]
other than asking snide questions of other posters diverting responsibility to offer any original though.
[/quote]Snide questions? Asking someone what better ideas they have than someone they’re saying has bad ideas? Is that what you’re talking about? Explain how those are snide questions.
[quote=Djshakes]Contribute or STFU. We have enough whiners on here already.[/quote]
Again, show me the whining.
As far as my contributions:
I was trying to get an exchange of ideas started on the budget. My method involves asking questions. Had they been answered, they would’ve been followed by a discussion. They weren’t answered, so no discussion ensued between me and the people I was asking questions. If you want to answer what you would do, I’d be happy to have a discussion about it.
Participant[quote=Djshakes]
The thread hit page four and was already pretty far off of its intended mark. So I got a little slap happy. Big deal.[/quote]
It’s not a big deal. I was just exposing it for what it was. Which was thoughtless, ridiculous partisan slapfighting.
[quote=Djshakes]
I suggest you read a majority of my posts before making quick snap judgments.
[/quote]
I’m not making any snap judgement. I’ve been observing our nation’s political discourse for a couple decades, and I’ve noticed over that time that, to an ever-increasing degree, the discussion is dominated by point scoring and that a real exchange of ideas is rare.
[quote=Djshakes]
I’m reading a lot of whining in your post and little of what you are whining about, suggestions to fix the problem. [/quote]
Wow, have you ever got that all wrong.
First of all, you’ll have to show me the parts that you consider “whining.” Or is that just more of your thoughtless slapfighting?
[quote=Djshakes]
I just re-read every post you had in this thread and you offered absolutely 0 to the thread[/quote]I haven’t offered my suggestions to fix the budget because I think Jerry Brown is doing it mostly right. I’d be a little harsher on illegal immigrants (if it would save money, which it might) and I’d handle prisoners a bit differently. But those are minor quibbles and, like I said, I think he’s doing a great job. He’s our first fiscally responsible governor in a long, long time. So, if I think he’s doing it mostly right, my suggestion would be to support him. Perhaps I should’ve made that more clear.
My other point would be that bitching about Jerry Brown without having any idea what you would do that would actually work subtracts from the discourse rather than adding to it.
[quote=Djshakes]
other than asking snide questions of other posters diverting responsibility to offer any original though.
[/quote]Snide questions? Asking someone what better ideas they have than someone they’re saying has bad ideas? Is that what you’re talking about? Explain how those are snide questions.
[quote=Djshakes]Contribute or STFU. We have enough whiners on here already.[/quote]
Again, show me the whining.
As far as my contributions:
I was trying to get an exchange of ideas started on the budget. My method involves asking questions. Had they been answered, they would’ve been followed by a discussion. They weren’t answered, so no discussion ensued between me and the people I was asking questions. If you want to answer what you would do, I’d be happy to have a discussion about it.
Participant[quote=Djshakes]
The thread hit page four and was already pretty far off of its intended mark. So I got a little slap happy. Big deal.[/quote]
It’s not a big deal. I was just exposing it for what it was. Which was thoughtless, ridiculous partisan slapfighting.
[quote=Djshakes]
I suggest you read a majority of my posts before making quick snap judgments.
[/quote]
I’m not making any snap judgement. I’ve been observing our nation’s political discourse for a couple decades, and I’ve noticed over that time that, to an ever-increasing degree, the discussion is dominated by point scoring and that a real exchange of ideas is rare.
[quote=Djshakes]
I’m reading a lot of whining in your post and little of what you are whining about, suggestions to fix the problem. [/quote]
Wow, have you ever got that all wrong.
First of all, you’ll have to show me the parts that you consider “whining.” Or is that just more of your thoughtless slapfighting?
[quote=Djshakes]
I just re-read every post you had in this thread and you offered absolutely 0 to the thread[/quote]I haven’t offered my suggestions to fix the budget because I think Jerry Brown is doing it mostly right. I’d be a little harsher on illegal immigrants (if it would save money, which it might) and I’d handle prisoners a bit differently. But those are minor quibbles and, like I said, I think he’s doing a great job. He’s our first fiscally responsible governor in a long, long time. So, if I think he’s doing it mostly right, my suggestion would be to support him. Perhaps I should’ve made that more clear.
My other point would be that bitching about Jerry Brown without having any idea what you would do that would actually work subtracts from the discourse rather than adding to it.
[quote=Djshakes]
other than asking snide questions of other posters diverting responsibility to offer any original though.
[/quote]Snide questions? Asking someone what better ideas they have than someone they’re saying has bad ideas? Is that what you’re talking about? Explain how those are snide questions.
[quote=Djshakes]Contribute or STFU. We have enough whiners on here already.[/quote]
Again, show me the whining.
As far as my contributions:
I was trying to get an exchange of ideas started on the budget. My method involves asking questions. Had they been answered, they would’ve been followed by a discussion. They weren’t answered, so no discussion ensued between me and the people I was asking questions. If you want to answer what you would do, I’d be happy to have a discussion about it.
Participant[quote=Djshakes]
The thread hit page four and was already pretty far off of its intended mark. So I got a little slap happy. Big deal.[/quote]
It’s not a big deal. I was just exposing it for what it was. Which was thoughtless, ridiculous partisan slapfighting.
[quote=Djshakes]
I suggest you read a majority of my posts before making quick snap judgments.
[/quote]
I’m not making any snap judgement. I’ve been observing our nation’s political discourse for a couple decades, and I’ve noticed over that time that, to an ever-increasing degree, the discussion is dominated by point scoring and that a real exchange of ideas is rare.
[quote=Djshakes]
I’m reading a lot of whining in your post and little of what you are whining about, suggestions to fix the problem. [/quote]
Wow, have you ever got that all wrong.
First of all, you’ll have to show me the parts that you consider “whining.” Or is that just more of your thoughtless slapfighting?
[quote=Djshakes]
I just re-read every post you had in this thread and you offered absolutely 0 to the thread[/quote]I haven’t offered my suggestions to fix the budget because I think Jerry Brown is doing it mostly right. I’d be a little harsher on illegal immigrants (if it would save money, which it might) and I’d handle prisoners a bit differently. But those are minor quibbles and, like I said, I think he’s doing a great job. He’s our first fiscally responsible governor in a long, long time. So, if I think he’s doing it mostly right, my suggestion would be to support him. Perhaps I should’ve made that more clear.
My other point would be that bitching about Jerry Brown without having any idea what you would do that would actually work subtracts from the discourse rather than adding to it.
[quote=Djshakes]
other than asking snide questions of other posters diverting responsibility to offer any original though.
[/quote]Snide questions? Asking someone what better ideas they have than someone they’re saying has bad ideas? Is that what you’re talking about? Explain how those are snide questions.
[quote=Djshakes]Contribute or STFU. We have enough whiners on here already.[/quote]
Again, show me the whining.
As far as my contributions:
I was trying to get an exchange of ideas started on the budget. My method involves asking questions. Had they been answered, they would’ve been followed by a discussion. They weren’t answered, so no discussion ensued between me and the people I was asking questions. If you want to answer what you would do, I’d be happy to have a discussion about it.
Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
zk: I would offer two thoughts for consideration. First, and specific to California and more generally the US as a whole: We’re now seeing the fallout from several decades of vote buying, and by both parties. The GOP has focused on Big Business, Big Money and Big Oil and the Dems have focused on unions and organized labor and minorities. Both parties have pandered to their base and have been co-opted by their more reactionary and radicalized elements, thus the parlous state of dialogue and discourse in this country.[/quote]
I’d agree with all of that.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
The other thought is that our politicians are venal, corrupt and fairly worthless, and what does that say about us as a populace?[/quote]
I think it says we’re gullible, short sighted, and not too bright.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
This thread illustrates what Rich was referring to when he decried “Left versus Right slapfighting”. We’ve become so used to ad hominem and demonizing our “opponents”, that we’ve lost sight of the bigger picture and the ability to work as a consensus.[/quote]
Actually, if you read this whole thread, there is very little left vs. right slapfighting. Aside from Brutus and djshakes, there was almost none. Which is pretty amazing, because what you say is completely true. There doesn’t seem to be even a desire to work toward a consensus or, in the case of politicians, to work toward actually governing the country. The only goal seems to be to score points against the other side. Vote buying may be a major component of the problems we’ve faced to date, but the problem of point scoring overtaking governing as the main goal of politicians threatens to be just as big a problem in the future.
Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
zk: I would offer two thoughts for consideration. First, and specific to California and more generally the US as a whole: We’re now seeing the fallout from several decades of vote buying, and by both parties. The GOP has focused on Big Business, Big Money and Big Oil and the Dems have focused on unions and organized labor and minorities. Both parties have pandered to their base and have been co-opted by their more reactionary and radicalized elements, thus the parlous state of dialogue and discourse in this country.[/quote]
I’d agree with all of that.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
The other thought is that our politicians are venal, corrupt and fairly worthless, and what does that say about us as a populace?[/quote]
I think it says we’re gullible, short sighted, and not too bright.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
This thread illustrates what Rich was referring to when he decried “Left versus Right slapfighting”. We’ve become so used to ad hominem and demonizing our “opponents”, that we’ve lost sight of the bigger picture and the ability to work as a consensus.[/quote]
Actually, if you read this whole thread, there is very little left vs. right slapfighting. Aside from Brutus and djshakes, there was almost none. Which is pretty amazing, because what you say is completely true. There doesn’t seem to be even a desire to work toward a consensus or, in the case of politicians, to work toward actually governing the country. The only goal seems to be to score points against the other side. Vote buying may be a major component of the problems we’ve faced to date, but the problem of point scoring overtaking governing as the main goal of politicians threatens to be just as big a problem in the future.
Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
zk: I would offer two thoughts for consideration. First, and specific to California and more generally the US as a whole: We’re now seeing the fallout from several decades of vote buying, and by both parties. The GOP has focused on Big Business, Big Money and Big Oil and the Dems have focused on unions and organized labor and minorities. Both parties have pandered to their base and have been co-opted by their more reactionary and radicalized elements, thus the parlous state of dialogue and discourse in this country.[/quote]
I’d agree with all of that.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
The other thought is that our politicians are venal, corrupt and fairly worthless, and what does that say about us as a populace?[/quote]
I think it says we’re gullible, short sighted, and not too bright.
[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
This thread illustrates what Rich was referring to when he decried “Left versus Right slapfighting”. We’ve become so used to ad hominem and demonizing our “opponents”, that we’ve lost sight of the bigger picture and the ability to work as a consensus.[/quote]
Actually, if you read this whole thread, there is very little left vs. right slapfighting. Aside from Brutus and djshakes, there was almost none. Which is pretty amazing, because what you say is completely true. There doesn’t seem to be even a desire to work toward a consensus or, in the case of politicians, to work toward actually governing the country. The only goal seems to be to score points against the other side. Vote buying may be a major component of the problems we’ve faced to date, but the problem of point scoring overtaking governing as the main goal of politicians threatens to be just as big a problem in the future.
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