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urbanrealtor
Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
Dan: Couple of other things: (1) Militarily, we did win Vietnam. Inarguable fact in that US forces never lost a single major battle in the entire war. Vietnam was lost on the home front, not on the battle field. If you read an objective military history on Vietnam (i.e. NOTHING written by Karnow or Halberstam), you’ll realize that the Viet Cong was destroyed as an effective fighting force during the Tet Offensive of 1968 (a clear cut American victory and one that Walter Cronkite, among other American newsman, cast as an American defeat) and the North Vietnamese Army wasn’t able to mount effective operations in the field until 1972 (nearly four years later).
(2) The US Government is listening to its citizens and on a daily basis. Yes, its wonderful that the warrantless wiretapping issue has been dealt with, but what about listening programs like NSA’s Echelon and Carnivore, or SAIC’s adaptive listening software (which has helped us track down foreign al Qaeda operatives, but has been used domestically as well).
Before you start making accusations as to me stooping to some new low, read what I said and then comment accordingly.
Cheers.[/quote]
Re Vietnam:
Like I said, there is a grain of truth in everything you said.
However, there is no sane historian that will describe our victories in southeast Asia as anything but Pyrrhic. Our allies were routed and in the end we left the country to the reds.
We were grist in the mill of a military paradigm shift. Pre-19th century style total war is something we were not ready for there and (as Gorby said) history punishes those who arrive too late.
“Viet Cong” is just a slur of vietnamese communist.
Today, this minute, as we type, ARVN troops live in Mira Mesa and Vietnamese communists live in government mansions in Saigon (which they call Ho Chi Minh City). The PRG did not die at the hands of the US military. It was merged with the North after the fall of Saigon. We left because we failed and our allies were crushed. Badly. Unwillingness to admit this puts you in Cheneyland and in need of thorazine.Regarding Carnivore and Echelon:
I don’t give a fuck. I suppose that could change, however, if I get an email from the NSA telling me to stop torrenting Transformers or WinXP. However, that would likely mean the end of the program. Which is likely why that generally does not happen.I don’t like American citizens being arrested for “planning” (read not acting upon) Jihad but I really don’t fret too much about the civil liberties of the guy who is stocking up on weapons and explosives.
Most importantly, we have very specific areas of confidentiality drawn out in this country. It is generally acknowledged that email is not one of those (though phone is). Wiretapping offends me but carnivore does not so much.
Re Nazis:
Yeah, I think that comparing the Obama administration to the Hitler administration is a new low. Sorry dude, it is beneath your usual level of discourse.Participant[quote=Zeitgeist]Urban. I am starting to agree with you. Good grief![/quote]
I am afraid our mutual sarcasms have canceled each other out and now i am just confused.
Participant[quote=Zeitgeist]Urban. I am starting to agree with you. Good grief![/quote]
I am afraid our mutual sarcasms have canceled each other out and now i am just confused.
Participant[quote=Zeitgeist]Urban. I am starting to agree with you. Good grief![/quote]
I am afraid our mutual sarcasms have canceled each other out and now i am just confused.
Participant[quote=Zeitgeist]Urban. I am starting to agree with you. Good grief![/quote]
I am afraid our mutual sarcasms have canceled each other out and now i am just confused.
Participant[quote=Zeitgeist]Urban. I am starting to agree with you. Good grief![/quote]
I am afraid our mutual sarcasms have canceled each other out and now i am just confused.
Participant[quote=afx114]Since we’re bagging on other states: Florida is shaped like a big droopy dick for a reason.[/quote]
Awesome.Best post on this thread.
While I do agree that most public service jobs could be handled more efficiently, I think that treating these as services to be privatized deserves further investigation.
Lets go to places where cops, teachers, and firemen are semi-private employees. I think Nigeria and Tijuana show us some good examples of how to achieve this noble goal.
Similarly, I think Florida stands as a shining jewel of success in how to deal with children both in school and in terms of public safety.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12/article1014461.ece?comments=legacy
http://www.southfloridacriminaldefenselawyerblog.com/2009/07/12_year_old_florida_boy_in_jai.htmlRemember, privatization means better living.
Hopefully someday we can have a standard of living as good as Africa or Latin America.
Participant[quote=afx114]Since we’re bagging on other states: Florida is shaped like a big droopy dick for a reason.[/quote]
Awesome.Best post on this thread.
While I do agree that most public service jobs could be handled more efficiently, I think that treating these as services to be privatized deserves further investigation.
Lets go to places where cops, teachers, and firemen are semi-private employees. I think Nigeria and Tijuana show us some good examples of how to achieve this noble goal.
Similarly, I think Florida stands as a shining jewel of success in how to deal with children both in school and in terms of public safety.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12/article1014461.ece?comments=legacy
http://www.southfloridacriminaldefenselawyerblog.com/2009/07/12_year_old_florida_boy_in_jai.htmlRemember, privatization means better living.
Hopefully someday we can have a standard of living as good as Africa or Latin America.
Participant[quote=afx114]Since we’re bagging on other states: Florida is shaped like a big droopy dick for a reason.[/quote]
Awesome.Best post on this thread.
While I do agree that most public service jobs could be handled more efficiently, I think that treating these as services to be privatized deserves further investigation.
Lets go to places where cops, teachers, and firemen are semi-private employees. I think Nigeria and Tijuana show us some good examples of how to achieve this noble goal.
Similarly, I think Florida stands as a shining jewel of success in how to deal with children both in school and in terms of public safety.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12/article1014461.ece?comments=legacy
http://www.southfloridacriminaldefenselawyerblog.com/2009/07/12_year_old_florida_boy_in_jai.htmlRemember, privatization means better living.
Hopefully someday we can have a standard of living as good as Africa or Latin America.
Participant[quote=afx114]Since we’re bagging on other states: Florida is shaped like a big droopy dick for a reason.[/quote]
Awesome.Best post on this thread.
While I do agree that most public service jobs could be handled more efficiently, I think that treating these as services to be privatized deserves further investigation.
Lets go to places where cops, teachers, and firemen are semi-private employees. I think Nigeria and Tijuana show us some good examples of how to achieve this noble goal.
Similarly, I think Florida stands as a shining jewel of success in how to deal with children both in school and in terms of public safety.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12/article1014461.ece?comments=legacy
http://www.southfloridacriminaldefenselawyerblog.com/2009/07/12_year_old_florida_boy_in_jai.htmlRemember, privatization means better living.
Hopefully someday we can have a standard of living as good as Africa or Latin America.
Participant[quote=afx114]Since we’re bagging on other states: Florida is shaped like a big droopy dick for a reason.[/quote]
Awesome.Best post on this thread.
While I do agree that most public service jobs could be handled more efficiently, I think that treating these as services to be privatized deserves further investigation.
Lets go to places where cops, teachers, and firemen are semi-private employees. I think Nigeria and Tijuana show us some good examples of how to achieve this noble goal.
Similarly, I think Florida stands as a shining jewel of success in how to deal with children both in school and in terms of public safety.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/k12/article1014461.ece?comments=legacy
http://www.southfloridacriminaldefenselawyerblog.com/2009/07/12_year_old_florida_boy_in_jai.htmlRemember, privatization means better living.
Hopefully someday we can have a standard of living as good as Africa or Latin America.
Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
I don’t think the jump to Nazism is quite as big as you imagine, unfortunately. As Sinclair Lewis said in his 1935 novel “It Can’t Happen Here”: “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross”.[/quote]Yes dude.
Comparing Obama to Hitler is as cliche as it is stupid.
And it is a silly jump.
Granted you have said a few doozies (eg: “Vietnam was a good idea”, “we won Vietnam”, “the Chinese cannot be trusted”) but Obama to Hitler is a new one for you.
As with the other silly remarks, there is a grain of truth in it (he is, by definition, politically ambitious with an active agenda) but this is as inane as it is illustratively useless.
The difference with totalitarian regimes (as opposed to authoritarian, oligarchic, or democratic) is that they legislate what you think. Putting cctv cameras in public places does not even register on my paranoia radar. If you start postponing elections or listening to private conversations between citizens, that is different.
Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
I don’t think the jump to Nazism is quite as big as you imagine, unfortunately. As Sinclair Lewis said in his 1935 novel “It Can’t Happen Here”: “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross”.[/quote]Yes dude.
Comparing Obama to Hitler is as cliche as it is stupid.
And it is a silly jump.
Granted you have said a few doozies (eg: “Vietnam was a good idea”, “we won Vietnam”, “the Chinese cannot be trusted”) but Obama to Hitler is a new one for you.
As with the other silly remarks, there is a grain of truth in it (he is, by definition, politically ambitious with an active agenda) but this is as inane as it is illustratively useless.
The difference with totalitarian regimes (as opposed to authoritarian, oligarchic, or democratic) is that they legislate what you think. Putting cctv cameras in public places does not even register on my paranoia radar. If you start postponing elections or listening to private conversations between citizens, that is different.
Participant[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]
I don’t think the jump to Nazism is quite as big as you imagine, unfortunately. As Sinclair Lewis said in his 1935 novel “It Can’t Happen Here”: “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross”.[/quote]Yes dude.
Comparing Obama to Hitler is as cliche as it is stupid.
And it is a silly jump.
Granted you have said a few doozies (eg: “Vietnam was a good idea”, “we won Vietnam”, “the Chinese cannot be trusted”) but Obama to Hitler is a new one for you.
As with the other silly remarks, there is a grain of truth in it (he is, by definition, politically ambitious with an active agenda) but this is as inane as it is illustratively useless.
The difference with totalitarian regimes (as opposed to authoritarian, oligarchic, or democratic) is that they legislate what you think. Putting cctv cameras in public places does not even register on my paranoia radar. If you start postponing elections or listening to private conversations between citizens, that is different.
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