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ucodegen
Participant[quote afx114]
Problem is, our current economy is an energy welfare queen.
[/quote]Actually that is not accurate. The best measure is energy consumed per GDP of production, or Energy intensity of the economy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_intensity
http://earthtrends.wri.org/text/energy-resources/variable-668.html
http://seekingalpha.com/article/82481-energy-use-per-gdp-unit-by-countryConsidering that BP doesn’t seem that concerned about capping the run-away oil well and that they are talking about burning off 600,000 gallons of crude a day.. I think the true price of fossil fuels is actually considerably less than market price.
http://www.breakdownofamerica.com/2010/06/09/bp-to-burn-oil-it-collects-from-gulf-spill-as-containment-dome-runs-out-of-space
http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978292099Otherwise BP would try to capture every last drop of the crude…
Participant[quote afx114]
Problem is, our current economy is an energy welfare queen.
[/quote]Actually that is not accurate. The best measure is energy consumed per GDP of production, or Energy intensity of the economy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_intensity
http://earthtrends.wri.org/text/energy-resources/variable-668.html
http://seekingalpha.com/article/82481-energy-use-per-gdp-unit-by-countryConsidering that BP doesn’t seem that concerned about capping the run-away oil well and that they are talking about burning off 600,000 gallons of crude a day.. I think the true price of fossil fuels is actually considerably less than market price.
http://www.breakdownofamerica.com/2010/06/09/bp-to-burn-oil-it-collects-from-gulf-spill-as-containment-dome-runs-out-of-space
http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978292099Otherwise BP would try to capture every last drop of the crude…
Participant[quote briansd1]
If you believe that there will be an energy crisis and utility rates will be “punitive”, you should include that data in your cash flow analysis for payback calculation purposes.
[/quote]If you factor in the current increases in rates and the discount/tax advantage you get for solar, it largely pencils in already.
Add in potential costs due to restricting C02 via automobiles to electric vehicles(see below) and potential cap and trade, the ‘pencil in’ value even looks better.
Taken from another angle, there is presently a glut of polycrystaline silicon and monocrystaline silicon wafers. How long this will last is questionable. EU nations have or are in the process of reducing their subsidies for construction of solar. The US still has some subsidies. With the potential for new ‘tax’ revenue and throwing Wall Street another bone(another market to control or speculate in), there is a high possibility of increases in energy prices to the consumer through one mechanism or another. How long there will be a glut in solar silicon is unknown.
**note on taxes, I have seen both parties jump for the pig-trough.. so the comment on potential ‘tax’ revenue is political party agnostic, but definitely anti-politician. They just can’t keep their fingers out of the public treasury.
**in terms of Cap and Trade, I also see it as a possible way for ‘landed’ people with a lot of property (1000s of acres or more), people that in a monarchy or similar structure would be considered ‘landed aristocracy’, to hold on to their property and parcel small amounts out at high price (after all, they are not making more land ya know). Right now they have to pay property tax on that land. With Cap and Trade, they are instantly a carbon sink.. and can be paid based upon that. Considering a single Sequoia tree can sequester 4tons of carbon per year.. it can add up. { but thats just me talking through my tinfoil hat… }
Participant[quote briansd1]
If you believe that there will be an energy crisis and utility rates will be “punitive”, you should include that data in your cash flow analysis for payback calculation purposes.
[/quote]If you factor in the current increases in rates and the discount/tax advantage you get for solar, it largely pencils in already.
Add in potential costs due to restricting C02 via automobiles to electric vehicles(see below) and potential cap and trade, the ‘pencil in’ value even looks better.
Taken from another angle, there is presently a glut of polycrystaline silicon and monocrystaline silicon wafers. How long this will last is questionable. EU nations have or are in the process of reducing their subsidies for construction of solar. The US still has some subsidies. With the potential for new ‘tax’ revenue and throwing Wall Street another bone(another market to control or speculate in), there is a high possibility of increases in energy prices to the consumer through one mechanism or another. How long there will be a glut in solar silicon is unknown.
**note on taxes, I have seen both parties jump for the pig-trough.. so the comment on potential ‘tax’ revenue is political party agnostic, but definitely anti-politician. They just can’t keep their fingers out of the public treasury.
**in terms of Cap and Trade, I also see it as a possible way for ‘landed’ people with a lot of property (1000s of acres or more), people that in a monarchy or similar structure would be considered ‘landed aristocracy’, to hold on to their property and parcel small amounts out at high price (after all, they are not making more land ya know). Right now they have to pay property tax on that land. With Cap and Trade, they are instantly a carbon sink.. and can be paid based upon that. Considering a single Sequoia tree can sequester 4tons of carbon per year.. it can add up. { but thats just me talking through my tinfoil hat… }
Participant[quote briansd1]
If you believe that there will be an energy crisis and utility rates will be “punitive”, you should include that data in your cash flow analysis for payback calculation purposes.
[/quote]If you factor in the current increases in rates and the discount/tax advantage you get for solar, it largely pencils in already.
Add in potential costs due to restricting C02 via automobiles to electric vehicles(see below) and potential cap and trade, the ‘pencil in’ value even looks better.
Taken from another angle, there is presently a glut of polycrystaline silicon and monocrystaline silicon wafers. How long this will last is questionable. EU nations have or are in the process of reducing their subsidies for construction of solar. The US still has some subsidies. With the potential for new ‘tax’ revenue and throwing Wall Street another bone(another market to control or speculate in), there is a high possibility of increases in energy prices to the consumer through one mechanism or another. How long there will be a glut in solar silicon is unknown.
**note on taxes, I have seen both parties jump for the pig-trough.. so the comment on potential ‘tax’ revenue is political party agnostic, but definitely anti-politician. They just can’t keep their fingers out of the public treasury.
**in terms of Cap and Trade, I also see it as a possible way for ‘landed’ people with a lot of property (1000s of acres or more), people that in a monarchy or similar structure would be considered ‘landed aristocracy’, to hold on to their property and parcel small amounts out at high price (after all, they are not making more land ya know). Right now they have to pay property tax on that land. With Cap and Trade, they are instantly a carbon sink.. and can be paid based upon that. Considering a single Sequoia tree can sequester 4tons of carbon per year.. it can add up. { but thats just me talking through my tinfoil hat… }
Participant[quote briansd1]
If you believe that there will be an energy crisis and utility rates will be “punitive”, you should include that data in your cash flow analysis for payback calculation purposes.
[/quote]If you factor in the current increases in rates and the discount/tax advantage you get for solar, it largely pencils in already.
Add in potential costs due to restricting C02 via automobiles to electric vehicles(see below) and potential cap and trade, the ‘pencil in’ value even looks better.
Taken from another angle, there is presently a glut of polycrystaline silicon and monocrystaline silicon wafers. How long this will last is questionable. EU nations have or are in the process of reducing their subsidies for construction of solar. The US still has some subsidies. With the potential for new ‘tax’ revenue and throwing Wall Street another bone(another market to control or speculate in), there is a high possibility of increases in energy prices to the consumer through one mechanism or another. How long there will be a glut in solar silicon is unknown.
**note on taxes, I have seen both parties jump for the pig-trough.. so the comment on potential ‘tax’ revenue is political party agnostic, but definitely anti-politician. They just can’t keep their fingers out of the public treasury.
**in terms of Cap and Trade, I also see it as a possible way for ‘landed’ people with a lot of property (1000s of acres or more), people that in a monarchy or similar structure would be considered ‘landed aristocracy’, to hold on to their property and parcel small amounts out at high price (after all, they are not making more land ya know). Right now they have to pay property tax on that land. With Cap and Trade, they are instantly a carbon sink.. and can be paid based upon that. Considering a single Sequoia tree can sequester 4tons of carbon per year.. it can add up. { but thats just me talking through my tinfoil hat… }
Participant[quote briansd1]
If you believe that there will be an energy crisis and utility rates will be “punitive”, you should include that data in your cash flow analysis for payback calculation purposes.
[/quote]If you factor in the current increases in rates and the discount/tax advantage you get for solar, it largely pencils in already.
Add in potential costs due to restricting C02 via automobiles to electric vehicles(see below) and potential cap and trade, the ‘pencil in’ value even looks better.
Taken from another angle, there is presently a glut of polycrystaline silicon and monocrystaline silicon wafers. How long this will last is questionable. EU nations have or are in the process of reducing their subsidies for construction of solar. The US still has some subsidies. With the potential for new ‘tax’ revenue and throwing Wall Street another bone(another market to control or speculate in), there is a high possibility of increases in energy prices to the consumer through one mechanism or another. How long there will be a glut in solar silicon is unknown.
**note on taxes, I have seen both parties jump for the pig-trough.. so the comment on potential ‘tax’ revenue is political party agnostic, but definitely anti-politician. They just can’t keep their fingers out of the public treasury.
**in terms of Cap and Trade, I also see it as a possible way for ‘landed’ people with a lot of property (1000s of acres or more), people that in a monarchy or similar structure would be considered ‘landed aristocracy’, to hold on to their property and parcel small amounts out at high price (after all, they are not making more land ya know). Right now they have to pay property tax on that land. With Cap and Trade, they are instantly a carbon sink.. and can be paid based upon that. Considering a single Sequoia tree can sequester 4tons of carbon per year.. it can add up. { but thats just me talking through my tinfoil hat… }
Participant[quote CA renter]
I’ve lived in California all my life (with the exception of a couple of years overseas), and don’t ever remember a series of earthquakes like this. Anyone else?
[/quote]I lived through the San Fernando/Sylmar earthquake.. so I have seen much worse.
It looks like we are ‘ok’ since the fault(s) near us are moving fairly easily. I would worry about the Los Angeles basin. There have been some quakes north of Los Angeles and quakes in the Imperial valley down to Baja. The only part that is not really moving is LA. That means pressure is building up over there. Topping it off, the fault-line takes a turn (more like S-bend) through LA. This means that it doesn’t want to ‘slip’ as easily as where the faultline is straight.
Participant[quote CA renter]
I’ve lived in California all my life (with the exception of a couple of years overseas), and don’t ever remember a series of earthquakes like this. Anyone else?
[/quote]I lived through the San Fernando/Sylmar earthquake.. so I have seen much worse.
It looks like we are ‘ok’ since the fault(s) near us are moving fairly easily. I would worry about the Los Angeles basin. There have been some quakes north of Los Angeles and quakes in the Imperial valley down to Baja. The only part that is not really moving is LA. That means pressure is building up over there. Topping it off, the fault-line takes a turn (more like S-bend) through LA. This means that it doesn’t want to ‘slip’ as easily as where the faultline is straight.
Participant[quote CA renter]
I’ve lived in California all my life (with the exception of a couple of years overseas), and don’t ever remember a series of earthquakes like this. Anyone else?
[/quote]I lived through the San Fernando/Sylmar earthquake.. so I have seen much worse.
It looks like we are ‘ok’ since the fault(s) near us are moving fairly easily. I would worry about the Los Angeles basin. There have been some quakes north of Los Angeles and quakes in the Imperial valley down to Baja. The only part that is not really moving is LA. That means pressure is building up over there. Topping it off, the fault-line takes a turn (more like S-bend) through LA. This means that it doesn’t want to ‘slip’ as easily as where the faultline is straight.
Participant[quote CA renter]
I’ve lived in California all my life (with the exception of a couple of years overseas), and don’t ever remember a series of earthquakes like this. Anyone else?
[/quote]I lived through the San Fernando/Sylmar earthquake.. so I have seen much worse.
It looks like we are ‘ok’ since the fault(s) near us are moving fairly easily. I would worry about the Los Angeles basin. There have been some quakes north of Los Angeles and quakes in the Imperial valley down to Baja. The only part that is not really moving is LA. That means pressure is building up over there. Topping it off, the fault-line takes a turn (more like S-bend) through LA. This means that it doesn’t want to ‘slip’ as easily as where the faultline is straight.
Participant[quote CA renter]
I’ve lived in California all my life (with the exception of a couple of years overseas), and don’t ever remember a series of earthquakes like this. Anyone else?
[/quote]I lived through the San Fernando/Sylmar earthquake.. so I have seen much worse.
It looks like we are ‘ok’ since the fault(s) near us are moving fairly easily. I would worry about the Los Angeles basin. There have been some quakes north of Los Angeles and quakes in the Imperial valley down to Baja. The only part that is not really moving is LA. That means pressure is building up over there. Topping it off, the fault-line takes a turn (more like S-bend) through LA. This means that it doesn’t want to ‘slip’ as easily as where the faultline is straight.
June 14, 2010 at 3:05 PM in reply to: Threadjackers Will Be Persecuted (Maybe Even Prosecuted) #564813ParticipantI remember Staying alive…When I was in Kindergarden….. lol….You old farts…Oh shit, I’m not that much younger…
I remember the BeeGees. I wasn’t into the Disco stuff too much though.
So does the name ‘Graeme aka Graham Nash’ ring any bells? I think it is time for my Geritol® now…
June 14, 2010 at 3:05 PM in reply to: Threadjackers Will Be Persecuted (Maybe Even Prosecuted) #564910ParticipantI remember Staying alive…When I was in Kindergarden….. lol….You old farts…Oh shit, I’m not that much younger…
I remember the BeeGees. I wasn’t into the Disco stuff too much though.
So does the name ‘Graeme aka Graham Nash’ ring any bells? I think it is time for my Geritol® now…
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