Solar?

[briansd1]

[quote=faterikcartman]
Brian, I don’t think you understand what is coming. Cap and Trade is coming. This will limit ALL production of C02 from ANY source — and believe me when I tell you C02 is produced in the production of electricity. Whether it is generated from natural gas or coal it is going to be regulated. This is going to result in an energy crises and your electricity use is going to be limited or rates for large usage profiles will be made punitive. [/quote]

Thank you for clarifying.

I suppose your expectation of future electricity price increases is causing you to want to invest in solar — so that you can continue your current $400 to $600 electric usage unfettered, “off the grid”, without future utilities bills, and without contributing to CO2 emission.

If you believe that there will be an energy crisis and utility rates will be “punitive”, you should include that data in your cash flow analysis for payback calculation purposes.

The higher you believe that electricity rates will be in the future, the more solar installation makes sense today.

It’s good to know that solar is a good alternative to paying high electric bills.

[Aecetia]

This is old information from UCAN, but it covers 2008-2013:

“December 8th was not a good day for San Diego. On that day, San Diego Gas & Electric asked state regulators yesterday for permission to raise base rates for electricity and natural gas customers by some $250 million annually for the years 2008 through 2013. You don’t need a calculator to realize that adds up to a chilly $1.5 BILLION over those six years. For the average residential customer, that translates to a 2.4% increase in electricity and a 7.2% increase in gas costs. AND THAT’s JUST FOR THE WIRES AND PIPES…..it doesn’t include the actual cost of electricity or natural gas.”

http://www.ucan.org/energy/electricity/sdge_rate_increase

“SDG&E’s filing claims the proposed increases are attributed to rising operating costs tied to increased government regulation, higher prices for construction materials such as steel and copper, and higher health insurance costs for employees. Of course, it also means substantially higher profits for the company.”

I see they mentioned higher costs for government regs and for employee health care. If they were already using that excuse a few years ago, I would expect them to continue to gouge customers if they can get away with it. Based on our prior usage and projected increases in costs, it worked out for us. Anyone interested should get multiple bids. There are also solar leases available where you do not own the system.

[Aecetia]

This is old information from UCAN, but it covers 2008-2013:

“December 8th was not a good day for San Diego. On that day, San Diego Gas & Electric asked state regulators yesterday for permission to raise base rates for electricity and natural gas customers by some $250 million annually for the years 2008 through 2013. You don’t need a calculator to realize that adds up to a chilly $1.5 BILLION over those six years. For the average residential customer, that translates to a 2.4% increase in electricity and a 7.2% increase in gas costs. AND THAT’s JUST FOR THE WIRES AND PIPES…..it doesn’t include the actual cost of electricity or natural gas.”

http://www.ucan.org/energy/electricity/sdge_rate_increase

“SDG&E’s filing claims the proposed increases are attributed to rising operating costs tied to increased government regulation, higher prices for construction materials such as steel and copper, and higher health insurance costs for employees. Of course, it also means substantially higher profits for the company.”

I see they mentioned higher costs for government regs and for employee health care. If they were already using that excuse a few years ago, I would expect them to continue to gouge customers if they can get away with it. Based on our prior usage and projected increases in costs, it worked out for us. Anyone interested should get multiple bids. There are also solar leases available where you do not own the system.

[Aecetia]

This is old information from UCAN, but it covers 2008-2013:

“December 8th was not a good day for San Diego. On that day, San Diego Gas & Electric asked state regulators yesterday for permission to raise base rates for electricity and natural gas customers by some $250 million annually for the years 2008 through 2013. You don’t need a calculator to realize that adds up to a chilly $1.5 BILLION over those six years. For the average residential customer, that translates to a 2.4% increase in electricity and a 7.2% increase in gas costs. AND THAT’s JUST FOR THE WIRES AND PIPES…..it doesn’t include the actual cost of electricity or natural gas.”

http://www.ucan.org/energy/electricity/sdge_rate_increase

“SDG&E’s filing claims the proposed increases are attributed to rising operating costs tied to increased government regulation, higher prices for construction materials such as steel and copper, and higher health insurance costs for employees. Of course, it also means substantially higher profits for the company.”

I see they mentioned higher costs for government regs and for employee health care. If they were already using that excuse a few years ago, I would expect them to continue to gouge customers if they can get away with it. Based on our prior usage and projected increases in costs, it worked out for us. Anyone interested should get multiple bids. There are also solar leases available where you do not own the system.

[Aecetia]

This is old information from UCAN, but it covers 2008-2013:

“December 8th was not a good day for San Diego. On that day, San Diego Gas & Electric asked state regulators yesterday for permission to raise base rates for electricity and natural gas customers by some $250 million annually for the years 2008 through 2013. You don’t need a calculator to realize that adds up to a chilly $1.5 BILLION over those six years. For the average residential customer, that translates to a 2.4% increase in electricity and a 7.2% increase in gas costs. AND THAT’s JUST FOR THE WIRES AND PIPES…..it doesn’t include the actual cost of electricity or natural gas.”

http://www.ucan.org/energy/electricity/sdge_rate_increase

“SDG&E’s filing claims the proposed increases are attributed to rising operating costs tied to increased government regulation, higher prices for construction materials such as steel and copper, and higher health insurance costs for employees. Of course, it also means substantially higher profits for the company.”

I see they mentioned higher costs for government regs and for employee health care. If they were already using that excuse a few years ago, I would expect them to continue to gouge customers if they can get away with it. Based on our prior usage and projected increases in costs, it worked out for us. Anyone interested should get multiple bids. There are also solar leases available where you do not own the system.

[Aecetia]

This is old information from UCAN, but it covers 2008-2013:

“December 8th was not a good day for San Diego. On that day, San Diego Gas & Electric asked state regulators yesterday for permission to raise base rates for electricity and natural gas customers by some $250 million annually for the years 2008 through 2013. You don’t need a calculator to realize that adds up to a chilly $1.5 BILLION over those six years. For the average residential customer, that translates to a 2.4% increase in electricity and a 7.2% increase in gas costs. AND THAT’s JUST FOR THE WIRES AND PIPES…..it doesn’t include the actual cost of electricity or natural gas.”

http://www.ucan.org/energy/electricity/sdge_rate_increase

“SDG&E’s filing claims the proposed increases are attributed to rising operating costs tied to increased government regulation, higher prices for construction materials such as steel and copper, and higher health insurance costs for employees. Of course, it also means substantially higher profits for the company.”

I see they mentioned higher costs for government regs and for employee health care. If they were already using that excuse a few years ago, I would expect them to continue to gouge customers if they can get away with it. Based on our prior usage and projected increases in costs, it worked out for us. Anyone interested should get multiple bids. There are also solar leases available where you do not own the system.

[afx114]

Why shouldn’t we be paying more for energy? Clearly what we pay isn’t equal to the true total costs of discovery/extraction/refining/transportation/defense/environmental cleanup/etc. Yes, I understand that higher energy costs are bad for the economy, but maybe our economy should learn to survive on the true costs of energy. Wouldn’t that make it stronger in the long run? Problem is, our current economy is an energy welfare queen.

Perhaps solar/wind/etc would be much more cost competitive if we were paying the true cost for things such as oil & coal. What is the current threshold at which solar becomes cost competitive — both with and without the subsidies that oil & coal receive?

[afx114]

Why shouldn’t we be paying more for energy? Clearly what we pay isn’t equal to the true total costs of discovery/extraction/refining/transportation/defense/environmental cleanup/etc. Yes, I understand that higher energy costs are bad for the economy, but maybe our economy should learn to survive on the true costs of energy. Wouldn’t that make it stronger in the long run? Problem is, our current economy is an energy welfare queen.

Perhaps solar/wind/etc would be much more cost competitive if we were paying the true cost for things such as oil & coal. What is the current threshold at which solar becomes cost competitive — both with and without the subsidies that oil & coal receive?

[afx114]

Why shouldn’t we be paying more for energy? Clearly what we pay isn’t equal to the true total costs of discovery/extraction/refining/transportation/defense/environmental cleanup/etc. Yes, I understand that higher energy costs are bad for the economy, but maybe our economy should learn to survive on the true costs of energy. Wouldn’t that make it stronger in the long run? Problem is, our current economy is an energy welfare queen.

Perhaps solar/wind/etc would be much more cost competitive if we were paying the true cost for things such as oil & coal. What is the current threshold at which solar becomes cost competitive — both with and without the subsidies that oil & coal receive?

[afx114]

Why shouldn’t we be paying more for energy? Clearly what we pay isn’t equal to the true total costs of discovery/extraction/refining/transportation/defense/environmental cleanup/etc. Yes, I understand that higher energy costs are bad for the economy, but maybe our economy should learn to survive on the true costs of energy. Wouldn’t that make it stronger in the long run? Problem is, our current economy is an energy welfare queen.

Perhaps solar/wind/etc would be much more cost competitive if we were paying the true cost for things such as oil & coal. What is the current threshold at which solar becomes cost competitive — both with and without the subsidies that oil & coal receive?

[afx114]

Why shouldn’t we be paying more for energy? Clearly what we pay isn’t equal to the true total costs of discovery/extraction/refining/transportation/defense/environmental cleanup/etc. Yes, I understand that higher energy costs are bad for the economy, but maybe our economy should learn to survive on the true costs of energy. Wouldn’t that make it stronger in the long run? Problem is, our current economy is an energy welfare queen.

Perhaps solar/wind/etc would be much more cost competitive if we were paying the true cost for things such as oil & coal. What is the current threshold at which solar becomes cost competitive — both with and without the subsidies that oil & coal receive?

[sdcellar]

[quote=sdrealtor]I’m throwing a flag here! Stop the political threadjack. This is a question about the merits of installing solar systems on homes not Cap and Trade.[/quote]…and checking the capacity of the pump, might I add? Don’t we all win, left and right alike, if we use a little less energy in the first place? Let’s focus, people!

[sdcellar]

[quote=sdrealtor]I’m throwing a flag here! Stop the political threadjack. This is a question about the merits of installing solar systems on homes not Cap and Trade.[/quote]…and checking the capacity of the pump, might I add? Don’t we all win, left and right alike, if we use a little less energy in the first place? Let’s focus, people!

[sdcellar]

[quote=sdrealtor]I’m throwing a flag here! Stop the political threadjack. This is a question about the merits of installing solar systems on homes not Cap and Trade.[/quote]…and checking the capacity of the pump, might I add? Don’t we all win, left and right alike, if we use a little less energy in the first place? Let’s focus, people!

[sdcellar]

[quote=sdrealtor]I’m throwing a flag here! Stop the political threadjack. This is a question about the merits of installing solar systems on homes not Cap and Trade.[/quote]…and checking the capacity of the pump, might I add? Don’t we all win, left and right alike, if we use a little less energy in the first place? Let’s focus, people!

[Author]

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