Solar?

[sdcellar]

[quote=sdrealtor]I’m throwing a flag here! Stop the political threadjack. This is a question about the merits of installing solar systems on homes not Cap and Trade.[/quote]…and checking the capacity of the pump, might I add? Don’t we all win, left and right alike, if we use a little less energy in the first place? Let’s focus, people!

[ucodegen]

[quote briansd1]
If you believe that there will be an energy crisis and utility rates will be “punitive”, you should include that data in your cash flow analysis for payback calculation purposes.
[/quote]

If you factor in the current increases in rates and the discount/tax advantage you get for solar, it largely pencils in already.

Add in potential costs due to restricting C02 via automobiles to electric vehicles(see below) and potential cap and trade, the ‘pencil in’ value even looks better.

Taken from another angle, there is presently a glut of polycrystaline silicon and monocrystaline silicon wafers. How long this will last is questionable. EU nations have or are in the process of reducing their subsidies for construction of solar. The US still has some subsidies. With the potential for new ‘tax’ revenue and throwing Wall Street another bone(another market to control or speculate in), there is a high possibility of increases in energy prices to the consumer through one mechanism or another. How long there will be a glut in solar silicon is unknown.

**note on taxes, I have seen both parties jump for the pig-trough.. so the comment on potential ‘tax’ revenue is political party agnostic, but definitely anti-politician. They just can’t keep their fingers out of the public treasury.

**in terms of Cap and Trade, I also see it as a possible way for ‘landed’ people with a lot of property (1000s of acres or more), people that in a monarchy or similar structure would be considered ‘landed aristocracy’, to hold on to their property and parcel small amounts out at high price (after all, they are not making more land ya know). Right now they have to pay property tax on that land. With Cap and Trade, they are instantly a carbon sink.. and can be paid based upon that. Considering a single Sequoia tree can sequester 4tons of carbon per year.. it can add up. { but thats just me talking through my tinfoil hat… }

[ucodegen]

[quote briansd1]
If you believe that there will be an energy crisis and utility rates will be “punitive”, you should include that data in your cash flow analysis for payback calculation purposes.
[/quote]

If you factor in the current increases in rates and the discount/tax advantage you get for solar, it largely pencils in already.

Add in potential costs due to restricting C02 via automobiles to electric vehicles(see below) and potential cap and trade, the ‘pencil in’ value even looks better.

Taken from another angle, there is presently a glut of polycrystaline silicon and monocrystaline silicon wafers. How long this will last is questionable. EU nations have or are in the process of reducing their subsidies for construction of solar. The US still has some subsidies. With the potential for new ‘tax’ revenue and throwing Wall Street another bone(another market to control or speculate in), there is a high possibility of increases in energy prices to the consumer through one mechanism or another. How long there will be a glut in solar silicon is unknown.

**note on taxes, I have seen both parties jump for the pig-trough.. so the comment on potential ‘tax’ revenue is political party agnostic, but definitely anti-politician. They just can’t keep their fingers out of the public treasury.

**in terms of Cap and Trade, I also see it as a possible way for ‘landed’ people with a lot of property (1000s of acres or more), people that in a monarchy or similar structure would be considered ‘landed aristocracy’, to hold on to their property and parcel small amounts out at high price (after all, they are not making more land ya know). Right now they have to pay property tax on that land. With Cap and Trade, they are instantly a carbon sink.. and can be paid based upon that. Considering a single Sequoia tree can sequester 4tons of carbon per year.. it can add up. { but thats just me talking through my tinfoil hat… }

[ucodegen]

[quote briansd1]
If you believe that there will be an energy crisis and utility rates will be “punitive”, you should include that data in your cash flow analysis for payback calculation purposes.
[/quote]

If you factor in the current increases in rates and the discount/tax advantage you get for solar, it largely pencils in already.

Add in potential costs due to restricting C02 via automobiles to electric vehicles(see below) and potential cap and trade, the ‘pencil in’ value even looks better.

Taken from another angle, there is presently a glut of polycrystaline silicon and monocrystaline silicon wafers. How long this will last is questionable. EU nations have or are in the process of reducing their subsidies for construction of solar. The US still has some subsidies. With the potential for new ‘tax’ revenue and throwing Wall Street another bone(another market to control or speculate in), there is a high possibility of increases in energy prices to the consumer through one mechanism or another. How long there will be a glut in solar silicon is unknown.

**note on taxes, I have seen both parties jump for the pig-trough.. so the comment on potential ‘tax’ revenue is political party agnostic, but definitely anti-politician. They just can’t keep their fingers out of the public treasury.

**in terms of Cap and Trade, I also see it as a possible way for ‘landed’ people with a lot of property (1000s of acres or more), people that in a monarchy or similar structure would be considered ‘landed aristocracy’, to hold on to their property and parcel small amounts out at high price (after all, they are not making more land ya know). Right now they have to pay property tax on that land. With Cap and Trade, they are instantly a carbon sink.. and can be paid based upon that. Considering a single Sequoia tree can sequester 4tons of carbon per year.. it can add up. { but thats just me talking through my tinfoil hat… }

[ucodegen]

[quote briansd1]
If you believe that there will be an energy crisis and utility rates will be “punitive”, you should include that data in your cash flow analysis for payback calculation purposes.
[/quote]

If you factor in the current increases in rates and the discount/tax advantage you get for solar, it largely pencils in already.

Add in potential costs due to restricting C02 via automobiles to electric vehicles(see below) and potential cap and trade, the ‘pencil in’ value even looks better.

Taken from another angle, there is presently a glut of polycrystaline silicon and monocrystaline silicon wafers. How long this will last is questionable. EU nations have or are in the process of reducing their subsidies for construction of solar. The US still has some subsidies. With the potential for new ‘tax’ revenue and throwing Wall Street another bone(another market to control or speculate in), there is a high possibility of increases in energy prices to the consumer through one mechanism or another. How long there will be a glut in solar silicon is unknown.

**note on taxes, I have seen both parties jump for the pig-trough.. so the comment on potential ‘tax’ revenue is political party agnostic, but definitely anti-politician. They just can’t keep their fingers out of the public treasury.

**in terms of Cap and Trade, I also see it as a possible way for ‘landed’ people with a lot of property (1000s of acres or more), people that in a monarchy or similar structure would be considered ‘landed aristocracy’, to hold on to their property and parcel small amounts out at high price (after all, they are not making more land ya know). Right now they have to pay property tax on that land. With Cap and Trade, they are instantly a carbon sink.. and can be paid based upon that. Considering a single Sequoia tree can sequester 4tons of carbon per year.. it can add up. { but thats just me talking through my tinfoil hat… }

[ucodegen]

[quote briansd1]
If you believe that there will be an energy crisis and utility rates will be “punitive”, you should include that data in your cash flow analysis for payback calculation purposes.
[/quote]

If you factor in the current increases in rates and the discount/tax advantage you get for solar, it largely pencils in already.

Add in potential costs due to restricting C02 via automobiles to electric vehicles(see below) and potential cap and trade, the ‘pencil in’ value even looks better.

Taken from another angle, there is presently a glut of polycrystaline silicon and monocrystaline silicon wafers. How long this will last is questionable. EU nations have or are in the process of reducing their subsidies for construction of solar. The US still has some subsidies. With the potential for new ‘tax’ revenue and throwing Wall Street another bone(another market to control or speculate in), there is a high possibility of increases in energy prices to the consumer through one mechanism or another. How long there will be a glut in solar silicon is unknown.

**note on taxes, I have seen both parties jump for the pig-trough.. so the comment on potential ‘tax’ revenue is political party agnostic, but definitely anti-politician. They just can’t keep their fingers out of the public treasury.

**in terms of Cap and Trade, I also see it as a possible way for ‘landed’ people with a lot of property (1000s of acres or more), people that in a monarchy or similar structure would be considered ‘landed aristocracy’, to hold on to their property and parcel small amounts out at high price (after all, they are not making more land ya know). Right now they have to pay property tax on that land. With Cap and Trade, they are instantly a carbon sink.. and can be paid based upon that. Considering a single Sequoia tree can sequester 4tons of carbon per year.. it can add up. { but thats just me talking through my tinfoil hat… }

[ucodegen]

[quote afx114]
Problem is, our current economy is an energy welfare queen.
[/quote]

Actually that is not accurate. The best measure is energy consumed per GDP of production, or Energy intensity of the economy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_intensity
http://earthtrends.wri.org/text/energy-resources/variable-668.html
http://seekingalpha.com/article/82481-energy-use-per-gdp-unit-by-country

Considering that BP doesn’t seem that concerned about capping the run-away oil well and that they are talking about burning off 600,000 gallons of crude a day.. I think the true price of fossil fuels is actually considerably less than market price.
http://www.breakdownofamerica.com/2010/06/09/bp-to-burn-oil-it-collects-from-gulf-spill-as-containment-dome-runs-out-of-space
http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978292099

Otherwise BP would try to capture every last drop of the crude…

[ucodegen]

[quote afx114]
Problem is, our current economy is an energy welfare queen.
[/quote]

Actually that is not accurate. The best measure is energy consumed per GDP of production, or Energy intensity of the economy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_intensity
http://earthtrends.wri.org/text/energy-resources/variable-668.html
http://seekingalpha.com/article/82481-energy-use-per-gdp-unit-by-country

Considering that BP doesn’t seem that concerned about capping the run-away oil well and that they are talking about burning off 600,000 gallons of crude a day.. I think the true price of fossil fuels is actually considerably less than market price.
http://www.breakdownofamerica.com/2010/06/09/bp-to-burn-oil-it-collects-from-gulf-spill-as-containment-dome-runs-out-of-space
http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978292099

Otherwise BP would try to capture every last drop of the crude…

[ucodegen]

[quote afx114]
Problem is, our current economy is an energy welfare queen.
[/quote]

Actually that is not accurate. The best measure is energy consumed per GDP of production, or Energy intensity of the economy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_intensity
http://earthtrends.wri.org/text/energy-resources/variable-668.html
http://seekingalpha.com/article/82481-energy-use-per-gdp-unit-by-country

Considering that BP doesn’t seem that concerned about capping the run-away oil well and that they are talking about burning off 600,000 gallons of crude a day.. I think the true price of fossil fuels is actually considerably less than market price.
http://www.breakdownofamerica.com/2010/06/09/bp-to-burn-oil-it-collects-from-gulf-spill-as-containment-dome-runs-out-of-space
http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978292099

Otherwise BP would try to capture every last drop of the crude…

[ucodegen]

[quote afx114]
Problem is, our current economy is an energy welfare queen.
[/quote]

Actually that is not accurate. The best measure is energy consumed per GDP of production, or Energy intensity of the economy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_intensity
http://earthtrends.wri.org/text/energy-resources/variable-668.html
http://seekingalpha.com/article/82481-energy-use-per-gdp-unit-by-country

Considering that BP doesn’t seem that concerned about capping the run-away oil well and that they are talking about burning off 600,000 gallons of crude a day.. I think the true price of fossil fuels is actually considerably less than market price.
http://www.breakdownofamerica.com/2010/06/09/bp-to-burn-oil-it-collects-from-gulf-spill-as-containment-dome-runs-out-of-space
http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978292099

Otherwise BP would try to capture every last drop of the crude…

[ucodegen]

[quote afx114]
Problem is, our current economy is an energy welfare queen.
[/quote]

Actually that is not accurate. The best measure is energy consumed per GDP of production, or Energy intensity of the economy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_intensity
http://earthtrends.wri.org/text/energy-resources/variable-668.html
http://seekingalpha.com/article/82481-energy-use-per-gdp-unit-by-country

Considering that BP doesn’t seem that concerned about capping the run-away oil well and that they are talking about burning off 600,000 gallons of crude a day.. I think the true price of fossil fuels is actually considerably less than market price.
http://www.breakdownofamerica.com/2010/06/09/bp-to-burn-oil-it-collects-from-gulf-spill-as-containment-dome-runs-out-of-space
http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978292099

Otherwise BP would try to capture every last drop of the crude…

[faterikcartman]

[quote=sdrealtor]I’m throwing a flag here! Stop the political threadjack. This is a question about the merits of installing solar systems on homes not Cap and Trade.[/quote]

What the %$#!?

If you don’t understand the connection between Cap and Trade and the attractiveness of home PV arrays perhaps this isn’t the thread for you as I usually expect astute comments from you. I find it silly to condemn discussion of policies that will directly affect the cost of something a political high jack of a thread. Why not bash someone for mentioning federal tax subsidies when discussing whether it was a good time to buy a couple months ago. Silly.

The attractiveness of solar for non-Gaia worshipers is often in large part tied to the economic costs/returns. This is directly tied to energy costs. Energy costs are going to be tied to Cap and Trade. Cap and Trade is a further abandonment of free trade. Leaders who disfavour freedom in the marketplace in favour of command and control economics are often, in other countries who have had them before us, called “Dear Leader”. This certainly can’t be that controversial as half the country voted for this sort of thing. I’m just going along to get along as I don’t want the Commissar’s apparatchiks knocking on my door for lacking deference to my better.

Brian, I appreciate your response and would only like to clarify that the attractiveness of solar isn’t just to avoid high electric bills but to ensure that I am able to continue to use the amount of electricity I choose to use — at any price — and at any time of the day.

As an aside, I just heard our Dear Leader will be making a speech in tonight. I’ll be dog-goned if he doesn’t propound some sort of Cap and Trade scheme during this speech.

[faterikcartman]

[quote=sdrealtor]I’m throwing a flag here! Stop the political threadjack. This is a question about the merits of installing solar systems on homes not Cap and Trade.[/quote]

What the %$#!?

If you don’t understand the connection between Cap and Trade and the attractiveness of home PV arrays perhaps this isn’t the thread for you as I usually expect astute comments from you. I find it silly to condemn discussion of policies that will directly affect the cost of something a political high jack of a thread. Why not bash someone for mentioning federal tax subsidies when discussing whether it was a good time to buy a couple months ago. Silly.

The attractiveness of solar for non-Gaia worshipers is often in large part tied to the economic costs/returns. This is directly tied to energy costs. Energy costs are going to be tied to Cap and Trade. Cap and Trade is a further abandonment of free trade. Leaders who disfavour freedom in the marketplace in favour of command and control economics are often, in other countries who have had them before us, called “Dear Leader”. This certainly can’t be that controversial as half the country voted for this sort of thing. I’m just going along to get along as I don’t want the Commissar’s apparatchiks knocking on my door for lacking deference to my better.

Brian, I appreciate your response and would only like to clarify that the attractiveness of solar isn’t just to avoid high electric bills but to ensure that I am able to continue to use the amount of electricity I choose to use — at any price — and at any time of the day.

As an aside, I just heard our Dear Leader will be making a speech in tonight. I’ll be dog-goned if he doesn’t propound some sort of Cap and Trade scheme during this speech.

[faterikcartman]

[quote=sdrealtor]I’m throwing a flag here! Stop the political threadjack. This is a question about the merits of installing solar systems on homes not Cap and Trade.[/quote]

What the %$#!?

If you don’t understand the connection between Cap and Trade and the attractiveness of home PV arrays perhaps this isn’t the thread for you as I usually expect astute comments from you. I find it silly to condemn discussion of policies that will directly affect the cost of something a political high jack of a thread. Why not bash someone for mentioning federal tax subsidies when discussing whether it was a good time to buy a couple months ago. Silly.

The attractiveness of solar for non-Gaia worshipers is often in large part tied to the economic costs/returns. This is directly tied to energy costs. Energy costs are going to be tied to Cap and Trade. Cap and Trade is a further abandonment of free trade. Leaders who disfavour freedom in the marketplace in favour of command and control economics are often, in other countries who have had them before us, called “Dear Leader”. This certainly can’t be that controversial as half the country voted for this sort of thing. I’m just going along to get along as I don’t want the Commissar’s apparatchiks knocking on my door for lacking deference to my better.

Brian, I appreciate your response and would only like to clarify that the attractiveness of solar isn’t just to avoid high electric bills but to ensure that I am able to continue to use the amount of electricity I choose to use — at any price — and at any time of the day.

As an aside, I just heard our Dear Leader will be making a speech in tonight. I’ll be dog-goned if he doesn’t propound some sort of Cap and Trade scheme during this speech.

[faterikcartman]

[quote=sdrealtor]I’m throwing a flag here! Stop the political threadjack. This is a question about the merits of installing solar systems on homes not Cap and Trade.[/quote]

What the %$#!?

If you don’t understand the connection between Cap and Trade and the attractiveness of home PV arrays perhaps this isn’t the thread for you as I usually expect astute comments from you. I find it silly to condemn discussion of policies that will directly affect the cost of something a political high jack of a thread. Why not bash someone for mentioning federal tax subsidies when discussing whether it was a good time to buy a couple months ago. Silly.

The attractiveness of solar for non-Gaia worshipers is often in large part tied to the economic costs/returns. This is directly tied to energy costs. Energy costs are going to be tied to Cap and Trade. Cap and Trade is a further abandonment of free trade. Leaders who disfavour freedom in the marketplace in favour of command and control economics are often, in other countries who have had them before us, called “Dear Leader”. This certainly can’t be that controversial as half the country voted for this sort of thing. I’m just going along to get along as I don’t want the Commissar’s apparatchiks knocking on my door for lacking deference to my better.

Brian, I appreciate your response and would only like to clarify that the attractiveness of solar isn’t just to avoid high electric bills but to ensure that I am able to continue to use the amount of electricity I choose to use — at any price — and at any time of the day.

As an aside, I just heard our Dear Leader will be making a speech in tonight. I’ll be dog-goned if he doesn’t propound some sort of Cap and Trade scheme during this speech.

[Author]

Posts