[temeculaguy]

[quote=CBad]Yeah, then he got a major Butterface when he realized it was just Chelsea.[/quote]

Is that Chelsea? If it is then she lucked out by not getting her mom’s calves.

[temeculaguy]

[quote=CBad]Yeah, then he got a major Butterface when he realized it was just Chelsea.[/quote]

Is that Chelsea? If it is then she lucked out by not getting her mom’s calves.

[temeculaguy]

[quote=CBad]Yeah, then he got a major Butterface when he realized it was just Chelsea.[/quote]

Is that Chelsea? If it is then she lucked out by not getting her mom’s calves.

[temeculaguy]

[quote=CBad]Yeah, then he got a major Butterface when he realized it was just Chelsea.[/quote]

Is that Chelsea? If it is then she lucked out by not getting her mom’s calves.

[temeculaguy]

[quote=werewolf34]temeculaguy,

Out of curiousity, how much money do you need (as an investor) to make tracking RE worthwhile?

It seems like you know your stuff but I am trying to get my head around how much dough / how many properties I need to be able to buy before it is worthwhile.

Thanks[/quote]

I don’t think I have an answer. I don’t think you need much to track and learn, for me it’s just a hobby, one that I got into a few years ago after being frustrated with the market and the fundamentals, I read and read, watched and watched, I enjoyed it and kept doing it. It was all about buying my primary residence, I sold somewhere around 2005, got back in a few months ago, now my attention is on my first rental. My family trust has a few rentals and has for decades, but they aren’t mine really and I don’t manage them, one day I will but that day may be a long ways out, in the meantime, I’d like to pick one up during this downturn, just for me. That makes me small time, but that doesn’t mean I have to make avoidable mistakes or bank on appreciation. My goal is to get one cheap enough and with a nice rent multiplier that I can accelerate the payoff before retirement, just stay with one and avoid leveraging. My pops is retired and has a couple of paid off rentals that he thoroughly enjoys. For me, one would be worthile, something small enough that I can pay it off in short order. Let’s take my example of a 65k place that brings in $900 in rent. 20k down, 45k loan for 5 years at 5.5 is just uner $900, equal to rent. I’d eat the hoa and taxes of a few hundred a month and all vacancy time and maintenance. In five years it flows $700 a month forever, has a potential of appreciating at some point in the next 20 years, rent should track inflation and I can sit tight and enjoy the monthly stipend or if finances and the market allow for it, go for another one on the next downturn, using the flow from the first to accelerate the next one, lather rinse, repeat and you find yourself in your sixties with a few cash cows all paid off. This I learned from my father, and I learned the most important part of making it work is selecting the time to do it. Flipping requires an appreciating market and an expanding economy, cash cow hunting requires fire and brimstone in the wall street journal, pick one up today and that’s what you’ll read. The short answer to your question is that I don’t have suitcases full of money and it has already been worthwhile, plus what else am I going to track until football season starts.

[temeculaguy]

[quote=werewolf34]temeculaguy,

Out of curiousity, how much money do you need (as an investor) to make tracking RE worthwhile?

It seems like you know your stuff but I am trying to get my head around how much dough / how many properties I need to be able to buy before it is worthwhile.

Thanks[/quote]

I don’t think I have an answer. I don’t think you need much to track and learn, for me it’s just a hobby, one that I got into a few years ago after being frustrated with the market and the fundamentals, I read and read, watched and watched, I enjoyed it and kept doing it. It was all about buying my primary residence, I sold somewhere around 2005, got back in a few months ago, now my attention is on my first rental. My family trust has a few rentals and has for decades, but they aren’t mine really and I don’t manage them, one day I will but that day may be a long ways out, in the meantime, I’d like to pick one up during this downturn, just for me. That makes me small time, but that doesn’t mean I have to make avoidable mistakes or bank on appreciation. My goal is to get one cheap enough and with a nice rent multiplier that I can accelerate the payoff before retirement, just stay with one and avoid leveraging. My pops is retired and has a couple of paid off rentals that he thoroughly enjoys. For me, one would be worthile, something small enough that I can pay it off in short order. Let’s take my example of a 65k place that brings in $900 in rent. 20k down, 45k loan for 5 years at 5.5 is just uner $900, equal to rent. I’d eat the hoa and taxes of a few hundred a month and all vacancy time and maintenance. In five years it flows $700 a month forever, has a potential of appreciating at some point in the next 20 years, rent should track inflation and I can sit tight and enjoy the monthly stipend or if finances and the market allow for it, go for another one on the next downturn, using the flow from the first to accelerate the next one, lather rinse, repeat and you find yourself in your sixties with a few cash cows all paid off. This I learned from my father, and I learned the most important part of making it work is selecting the time to do it. Flipping requires an appreciating market and an expanding economy, cash cow hunting requires fire and brimstone in the wall street journal, pick one up today and that’s what you’ll read. The short answer to your question is that I don’t have suitcases full of money and it has already been worthwhile, plus what else am I going to track until football season starts.

[temeculaguy]

[quote=werewolf34]temeculaguy,

Out of curiousity, how much money do you need (as an investor) to make tracking RE worthwhile?

It seems like you know your stuff but I am trying to get my head around how much dough / how many properties I need to be able to buy before it is worthwhile.

Thanks[/quote]

I don’t think I have an answer. I don’t think you need much to track and learn, for me it’s just a hobby, one that I got into a few years ago after being frustrated with the market and the fundamentals, I read and read, watched and watched, I enjoyed it and kept doing it. It was all about buying my primary residence, I sold somewhere around 2005, got back in a few months ago, now my attention is on my first rental. My family trust has a few rentals and has for decades, but they aren’t mine really and I don’t manage them, one day I will but that day may be a long ways out, in the meantime, I’d like to pick one up during this downturn, just for me. That makes me small time, but that doesn’t mean I have to make avoidable mistakes or bank on appreciation. My goal is to get one cheap enough and with a nice rent multiplier that I can accelerate the payoff before retirement, just stay with one and avoid leveraging. My pops is retired and has a couple of paid off rentals that he thoroughly enjoys. For me, one would be worthile, something small enough that I can pay it off in short order. Let’s take my example of a 65k place that brings in $900 in rent. 20k down, 45k loan for 5 years at 5.5 is just uner $900, equal to rent. I’d eat the hoa and taxes of a few hundred a month and all vacancy time and maintenance. In five years it flows $700 a month forever, has a potential of appreciating at some point in the next 20 years, rent should track inflation and I can sit tight and enjoy the monthly stipend or if finances and the market allow for it, go for another one on the next downturn, using the flow from the first to accelerate the next one, lather rinse, repeat and you find yourself in your sixties with a few cash cows all paid off. This I learned from my father, and I learned the most important part of making it work is selecting the time to do it. Flipping requires an appreciating market and an expanding economy, cash cow hunting requires fire and brimstone in the wall street journal, pick one up today and that’s what you’ll read. The short answer to your question is that I don’t have suitcases full of money and it has already been worthwhile, plus what else am I going to track until football season starts.

[temeculaguy]

[quote=werewolf34]temeculaguy,

Out of curiousity, how much money do you need (as an investor) to make tracking RE worthwhile?

It seems like you know your stuff but I am trying to get my head around how much dough / how many properties I need to be able to buy before it is worthwhile.

Thanks[/quote]

I don’t think I have an answer. I don’t think you need much to track and learn, for me it’s just a hobby, one that I got into a few years ago after being frustrated with the market and the fundamentals, I read and read, watched and watched, I enjoyed it and kept doing it. It was all about buying my primary residence, I sold somewhere around 2005, got back in a few months ago, now my attention is on my first rental. My family trust has a few rentals and has for decades, but they aren’t mine really and I don’t manage them, one day I will but that day may be a long ways out, in the meantime, I’d like to pick one up during this downturn, just for me. That makes me small time, but that doesn’t mean I have to make avoidable mistakes or bank on appreciation. My goal is to get one cheap enough and with a nice rent multiplier that I can accelerate the payoff before retirement, just stay with one and avoid leveraging. My pops is retired and has a couple of paid off rentals that he thoroughly enjoys. For me, one would be worthile, something small enough that I can pay it off in short order. Let’s take my example of a 65k place that brings in $900 in rent. 20k down, 45k loan for 5 years at 5.5 is just uner $900, equal to rent. I’d eat the hoa and taxes of a few hundred a month and all vacancy time and maintenance. In five years it flows $700 a month forever, has a potential of appreciating at some point in the next 20 years, rent should track inflation and I can sit tight and enjoy the monthly stipend or if finances and the market allow for it, go for another one on the next downturn, using the flow from the first to accelerate the next one, lather rinse, repeat and you find yourself in your sixties with a few cash cows all paid off. This I learned from my father, and I learned the most important part of making it work is selecting the time to do it. Flipping requires an appreciating market and an expanding economy, cash cow hunting requires fire and brimstone in the wall street journal, pick one up today and that’s what you’ll read. The short answer to your question is that I don’t have suitcases full of money and it has already been worthwhile, plus what else am I going to track until football season starts.

[temeculaguy]

[quote=werewolf34]temeculaguy,

Out of curiousity, how much money do you need (as an investor) to make tracking RE worthwhile?

It seems like you know your stuff but I am trying to get my head around how much dough / how many properties I need to be able to buy before it is worthwhile.

Thanks[/quote]

I don’t think I have an answer. I don’t think you need much to track and learn, for me it’s just a hobby, one that I got into a few years ago after being frustrated with the market and the fundamentals, I read and read, watched and watched, I enjoyed it and kept doing it. It was all about buying my primary residence, I sold somewhere around 2005, got back in a few months ago, now my attention is on my first rental. My family trust has a few rentals and has for decades, but they aren’t mine really and I don’t manage them, one day I will but that day may be a long ways out, in the meantime, I’d like to pick one up during this downturn, just for me. That makes me small time, but that doesn’t mean I have to make avoidable mistakes or bank on appreciation. My goal is to get one cheap enough and with a nice rent multiplier that I can accelerate the payoff before retirement, just stay with one and avoid leveraging. My pops is retired and has a couple of paid off rentals that he thoroughly enjoys. For me, one would be worthile, something small enough that I can pay it off in short order. Let’s take my example of a 65k place that brings in $900 in rent. 20k down, 45k loan for 5 years at 5.5 is just uner $900, equal to rent. I’d eat the hoa and taxes of a few hundred a month and all vacancy time and maintenance. In five years it flows $700 a month forever, has a potential of appreciating at some point in the next 20 years, rent should track inflation and I can sit tight and enjoy the monthly stipend or if finances and the market allow for it, go for another one on the next downturn, using the flow from the first to accelerate the next one, lather rinse, repeat and you find yourself in your sixties with a few cash cows all paid off. This I learned from my father, and I learned the most important part of making it work is selecting the time to do it. Flipping requires an appreciating market and an expanding economy, cash cow hunting requires fire and brimstone in the wall street journal, pick one up today and that’s what you’ll read. The short answer to your question is that I don’t have suitcases full of money and it has already been worthwhile, plus what else am I going to track until football season starts.

[temeculaguy]

Part of it was my narrow definition of the word “investor,” I was thinking of those with money to invest as opposed to those working a strategy and leveraging, you are right, both groups exist. In your example, the 1996 investor wins because they start with 135x and could have refi’d to below 100x, the buyer at 4.75 is kinda stuck at their level. When both sell, 1996 wins again, the profit from the increased equity is more than double. Neither are stupid but an investor today should walk past the 190x opportunity because they can find better rent multipliers elsewhere with the same interest rate. Your example is still a decent investment, but in 2009, as long as you are not investing in S.D., you can find that 1996 scenario.

A few weeks ago I posted on another thread a bunch of 1k rentals for 100k, I just found a 900 rental for 60k. At todays rates, they start out cash flowing far better than the MM example, if you find a 50x example in Florida, you’d buy that before my 65x example. There are a bunch of post bubble busted places seeing intense investor activity, often times money coming from outside the area or state that the property is in. When that MM place hits 225k, investors will scoop them up by the dozens and provide a price floor, but at 325k, just locals will be there, it will still support prices but not in the same furious way that sub 150x will.

I am making this stuff up as I go along, but a few months ago, when my area began to regularly see 100x, buyers poured in, Forbes ran a story and declared Murietta and Temecula as the #1 and #3 hottest markets in the country, I tried to figure out why, and I think that when the rent multiplier gets so low, money shows up. If they ran that story today, it probably moved to whatever area that just hit that rent multiplier, perhaps florida or northern/central cal will be next. As prices fall in S.D., there will come a point that the sideliners will need to buy before the investors show up in large order, that range will vary between 100 and 150x

[temeculaguy]

Part of it was my narrow definition of the word “investor,” I was thinking of those with money to invest as opposed to those working a strategy and leveraging, you are right, both groups exist. In your example, the 1996 investor wins because they start with 135x and could have refi’d to below 100x, the buyer at 4.75 is kinda stuck at their level. When both sell, 1996 wins again, the profit from the increased equity is more than double. Neither are stupid but an investor today should walk past the 190x opportunity because they can find better rent multipliers elsewhere with the same interest rate. Your example is still a decent investment, but in 2009, as long as you are not investing in S.D., you can find that 1996 scenario.

A few weeks ago I posted on another thread a bunch of 1k rentals for 100k, I just found a 900 rental for 60k. At todays rates, they start out cash flowing far better than the MM example, if you find a 50x example in Florida, you’d buy that before my 65x example. There are a bunch of post bubble busted places seeing intense investor activity, often times money coming from outside the area or state that the property is in. When that MM place hits 225k, investors will scoop them up by the dozens and provide a price floor, but at 325k, just locals will be there, it will still support prices but not in the same furious way that sub 150x will.

I am making this stuff up as I go along, but a few months ago, when my area began to regularly see 100x, buyers poured in, Forbes ran a story and declared Murietta and Temecula as the #1 and #3 hottest markets in the country, I tried to figure out why, and I think that when the rent multiplier gets so low, money shows up. If they ran that story today, it probably moved to whatever area that just hit that rent multiplier, perhaps florida or northern/central cal will be next. As prices fall in S.D., there will come a point that the sideliners will need to buy before the investors show up in large order, that range will vary between 100 and 150x

[temeculaguy]

Part of it was my narrow definition of the word “investor,” I was thinking of those with money to invest as opposed to those working a strategy and leveraging, you are right, both groups exist. In your example, the 1996 investor wins because they start with 135x and could have refi’d to below 100x, the buyer at 4.75 is kinda stuck at their level. When both sell, 1996 wins again, the profit from the increased equity is more than double. Neither are stupid but an investor today should walk past the 190x opportunity because they can find better rent multipliers elsewhere with the same interest rate. Your example is still a decent investment, but in 2009, as long as you are not investing in S.D., you can find that 1996 scenario.

A few weeks ago I posted on another thread a bunch of 1k rentals for 100k, I just found a 900 rental for 60k. At todays rates, they start out cash flowing far better than the MM example, if you find a 50x example in Florida, you’d buy that before my 65x example. There are a bunch of post bubble busted places seeing intense investor activity, often times money coming from outside the area or state that the property is in. When that MM place hits 225k, investors will scoop them up by the dozens and provide a price floor, but at 325k, just locals will be there, it will still support prices but not in the same furious way that sub 150x will.

I am making this stuff up as I go along, but a few months ago, when my area began to regularly see 100x, buyers poured in, Forbes ran a story and declared Murietta and Temecula as the #1 and #3 hottest markets in the country, I tried to figure out why, and I think that when the rent multiplier gets so low, money shows up. If they ran that story today, it probably moved to whatever area that just hit that rent multiplier, perhaps florida or northern/central cal will be next. As prices fall in S.D., there will come a point that the sideliners will need to buy before the investors show up in large order, that range will vary between 100 and 150x

[temeculaguy]

Part of it was my narrow definition of the word “investor,” I was thinking of those with money to invest as opposed to those working a strategy and leveraging, you are right, both groups exist. In your example, the 1996 investor wins because they start with 135x and could have refi’d to below 100x, the buyer at 4.75 is kinda stuck at their level. When both sell, 1996 wins again, the profit from the increased equity is more than double. Neither are stupid but an investor today should walk past the 190x opportunity because they can find better rent multipliers elsewhere with the same interest rate. Your example is still a decent investment, but in 2009, as long as you are not investing in S.D., you can find that 1996 scenario.

A few weeks ago I posted on another thread a bunch of 1k rentals for 100k, I just found a 900 rental for 60k. At todays rates, they start out cash flowing far better than the MM example, if you find a 50x example in Florida, you’d buy that before my 65x example. There are a bunch of post bubble busted places seeing intense investor activity, often times money coming from outside the area or state that the property is in. When that MM place hits 225k, investors will scoop them up by the dozens and provide a price floor, but at 325k, just locals will be there, it will still support prices but not in the same furious way that sub 150x will.

I am making this stuff up as I go along, but a few months ago, when my area began to regularly see 100x, buyers poured in, Forbes ran a story and declared Murietta and Temecula as the #1 and #3 hottest markets in the country, I tried to figure out why, and I think that when the rent multiplier gets so low, money shows up. If they ran that story today, it probably moved to whatever area that just hit that rent multiplier, perhaps florida or northern/central cal will be next. As prices fall in S.D., there will come a point that the sideliners will need to buy before the investors show up in large order, that range will vary between 100 and 150x

[temeculaguy]

Part of it was my narrow definition of the word “investor,” I was thinking of those with money to invest as opposed to those working a strategy and leveraging, you are right, both groups exist. In your example, the 1996 investor wins because they start with 135x and could have refi’d to below 100x, the buyer at 4.75 is kinda stuck at their level. When both sell, 1996 wins again, the profit from the increased equity is more than double. Neither are stupid but an investor today should walk past the 190x opportunity because they can find better rent multipliers elsewhere with the same interest rate. Your example is still a decent investment, but in 2009, as long as you are not investing in S.D., you can find that 1996 scenario.

A few weeks ago I posted on another thread a bunch of 1k rentals for 100k, I just found a 900 rental for 60k. At todays rates, they start out cash flowing far better than the MM example, if you find a 50x example in Florida, you’d buy that before my 65x example. There are a bunch of post bubble busted places seeing intense investor activity, often times money coming from outside the area or state that the property is in. When that MM place hits 225k, investors will scoop them up by the dozens and provide a price floor, but at 325k, just locals will be there, it will still support prices but not in the same furious way that sub 150x will.

I am making this stuff up as I go along, but a few months ago, when my area began to regularly see 100x, buyers poured in, Forbes ran a story and declared Murietta and Temecula as the #1 and #3 hottest markets in the country, I tried to figure out why, and I think that when the rent multiplier gets so low, money shows up. If they ran that story today, it probably moved to whatever area that just hit that rent multiplier, perhaps florida or northern/central cal will be next. As prices fall in S.D., there will come a point that the sideliners will need to buy before the investors show up in large order, that range will vary between 100 and 150x

[temeculaguy]

[quote=briansd1]

Sarah Palin talks like a girl from Temecula giving her high-school presentation.

[/quote]

Do we need to go there brian, really? Did you want me to head to the pantry and bust out a can of whoop ass, I’m all stocked up.

[Author]

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