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socrattt
Participant[quote=Jumby]I got a feeling that you want to debate the semantics of the word ‘investment’, which of course is up for everybody’s individual interpretation, so I’ll go ahead and share mine.
First off I’d like to point out that I don’t consider one’s personal home an investment. Your home is alot of things, your refuge, your escape, your piece of the American dream, your shelter, but it’s not an investment property. Investing in real estate isn’t the same as owning a house.
Alot of people around the country will end up spending more money living in their home than they will when they sell it. Dallas (where I currently reside) is a great example of this as I’m seeing homes sell for the same price as they were 10 years ago. After you factor in the fact that the dollar is worth less, property taxes, insurance, maintenance…alot of people will lose money if they sold now (after buying 10 years ago). This scenario obviously isn’t investing….
Investing is when you use money to make more money. To be considered an investment, real estate must generate actual profits, either immediately in the form of income or long term in the form of appreciation. In either case, the property must cover all it’s own costs and produce a reasonable return on the money you spent to buy it.
It would be foolish for anybody to argue against the Shiller data, but it’s equally as foolish not to consider the fact that real estate investors invest using leverage. So just using the Shiller data as the backbone of your case is flawed.
I of course don’t need to explain such simple concepts to an accountant….and since you are an accountant I’m not going to do the simple math that would prove what I just said…[/quote]
Jumby, not to be rude, but after reading this it looks as though you quoted Wikipedia on the term “investment.” I can’t imagine you would pass on sharing investment sites with all of us. I would assume you utilize those sites for clients, correct? Why wouldn’t you share those with us? I am more than happy to share any information with you, but now I am starting to wonder whether Jumby is Gumby!
On a serious note, I enjoy reading all these posts. Allan, you are well versed on the numbers side and I enjoy reading your posts. I wish I had your knowledge, but as young whipper snapper I didn’t take the time to read, I just focused on the game of buying and selling. Of course now I that I am sitting on a giant portfolio of RE (little debt, which is nice), I have plenty of time to read and study what’s to come.
P.S. Clearfund is paying a content writer to put a post together for a reply to you Allan.
Participant[quote=Jumby]I got a feeling that you want to debate the semantics of the word ‘investment’, which of course is up for everybody’s individual interpretation, so I’ll go ahead and share mine.
First off I’d like to point out that I don’t consider one’s personal home an investment. Your home is alot of things, your refuge, your escape, your piece of the American dream, your shelter, but it’s not an investment property. Investing in real estate isn’t the same as owning a house.
Alot of people around the country will end up spending more money living in their home than they will when they sell it. Dallas (where I currently reside) is a great example of this as I’m seeing homes sell for the same price as they were 10 years ago. After you factor in the fact that the dollar is worth less, property taxes, insurance, maintenance…alot of people will lose money if they sold now (after buying 10 years ago). This scenario obviously isn’t investing….
Investing is when you use money to make more money. To be considered an investment, real estate must generate actual profits, either immediately in the form of income or long term in the form of appreciation. In either case, the property must cover all it’s own costs and produce a reasonable return on the money you spent to buy it.
It would be foolish for anybody to argue against the Shiller data, but it’s equally as foolish not to consider the fact that real estate investors invest using leverage. So just using the Shiller data as the backbone of your case is flawed.
I of course don’t need to explain such simple concepts to an accountant….and since you are an accountant I’m not going to do the simple math that would prove what I just said…[/quote]
Jumby, not to be rude, but after reading this it looks as though you quoted Wikipedia on the term “investment.” I can’t imagine you would pass on sharing investment sites with all of us. I would assume you utilize those sites for clients, correct? Why wouldn’t you share those with us? I am more than happy to share any information with you, but now I am starting to wonder whether Jumby is Gumby!
On a serious note, I enjoy reading all these posts. Allan, you are well versed on the numbers side and I enjoy reading your posts. I wish I had your knowledge, but as young whipper snapper I didn’t take the time to read, I just focused on the game of buying and selling. Of course now I that I am sitting on a giant portfolio of RE (little debt, which is nice), I have plenty of time to read and study what’s to come.
P.S. Clearfund is paying a content writer to put a post together for a reply to you Allan.
Participant[quote=Jumby]I got a feeling that you want to debate the semantics of the word ‘investment’, which of course is up for everybody’s individual interpretation, so I’ll go ahead and share mine.
First off I’d like to point out that I don’t consider one’s personal home an investment. Your home is alot of things, your refuge, your escape, your piece of the American dream, your shelter, but it’s not an investment property. Investing in real estate isn’t the same as owning a house.
Alot of people around the country will end up spending more money living in their home than they will when they sell it. Dallas (where I currently reside) is a great example of this as I’m seeing homes sell for the same price as they were 10 years ago. After you factor in the fact that the dollar is worth less, property taxes, insurance, maintenance…alot of people will lose money if they sold now (after buying 10 years ago). This scenario obviously isn’t investing….
Investing is when you use money to make more money. To be considered an investment, real estate must generate actual profits, either immediately in the form of income or long term in the form of appreciation. In either case, the property must cover all it’s own costs and produce a reasonable return on the money you spent to buy it.
It would be foolish for anybody to argue against the Shiller data, but it’s equally as foolish not to consider the fact that real estate investors invest using leverage. So just using the Shiller data as the backbone of your case is flawed.
I of course don’t need to explain such simple concepts to an accountant….and since you are an accountant I’m not going to do the simple math that would prove what I just said…[/quote]
Jumby, not to be rude, but after reading this it looks as though you quoted Wikipedia on the term “investment.” I can’t imagine you would pass on sharing investment sites with all of us. I would assume you utilize those sites for clients, correct? Why wouldn’t you share those with us? I am more than happy to share any information with you, but now I am starting to wonder whether Jumby is Gumby!
On a serious note, I enjoy reading all these posts. Allan, you are well versed on the numbers side and I enjoy reading your posts. I wish I had your knowledge, but as young whipper snapper I didn’t take the time to read, I just focused on the game of buying and selling. Of course now I that I am sitting on a giant portfolio of RE (little debt, which is nice), I have plenty of time to read and study what’s to come.
P.S. Clearfund is paying a content writer to put a post together for a reply to you Allan.
Participant[quote=Jumby]I got a feeling that you want to debate the semantics of the word ‘investment’, which of course is up for everybody’s individual interpretation, so I’ll go ahead and share mine.
First off I’d like to point out that I don’t consider one’s personal home an investment. Your home is alot of things, your refuge, your escape, your piece of the American dream, your shelter, but it’s not an investment property. Investing in real estate isn’t the same as owning a house.
Alot of people around the country will end up spending more money living in their home than they will when they sell it. Dallas (where I currently reside) is a great example of this as I’m seeing homes sell for the same price as they were 10 years ago. After you factor in the fact that the dollar is worth less, property taxes, insurance, maintenance…alot of people will lose money if they sold now (after buying 10 years ago). This scenario obviously isn’t investing….
Investing is when you use money to make more money. To be considered an investment, real estate must generate actual profits, either immediately in the form of income or long term in the form of appreciation. In either case, the property must cover all it’s own costs and produce a reasonable return on the money you spent to buy it.
It would be foolish for anybody to argue against the Shiller data, but it’s equally as foolish not to consider the fact that real estate investors invest using leverage. So just using the Shiller data as the backbone of your case is flawed.
I of course don’t need to explain such simple concepts to an accountant….and since you are an accountant I’m not going to do the simple math that would prove what I just said…[/quote]
Jumby, not to be rude, but after reading this it looks as though you quoted Wikipedia on the term “investment.” I can’t imagine you would pass on sharing investment sites with all of us. I would assume you utilize those sites for clients, correct? Why wouldn’t you share those with us? I am more than happy to share any information with you, but now I am starting to wonder whether Jumby is Gumby!
On a serious note, I enjoy reading all these posts. Allan, you are well versed on the numbers side and I enjoy reading your posts. I wish I had your knowledge, but as young whipper snapper I didn’t take the time to read, I just focused on the game of buying and selling. Of course now I that I am sitting on a giant portfolio of RE (little debt, which is nice), I have plenty of time to read and study what’s to come.
P.S. Clearfund is paying a content writer to put a post together for a reply to you Allan.
Participant[quote=Jumby]Touche, I can respect that reply socratt, and for the record, I’m not talking about buying NPNs in high risk areas and I’m not personally brokering anything in Cali.
I think we all agree we need to be careful right now. I also think we need to recognize there are good deals out there (for the diligent).
I own a few top ranked investment real estate sites and I see hundreds of deals across my desk weekly. Some are as you say ‘look like a steal, and will only turn out to be a deal’, but others are truly a steal.[/quote]
Jumby, would you be inclined to list the sites here? Would love to check them out!!
Participant[quote=Jumby]Touche, I can respect that reply socratt, and for the record, I’m not talking about buying NPNs in high risk areas and I’m not personally brokering anything in Cali.
I think we all agree we need to be careful right now. I also think we need to recognize there are good deals out there (for the diligent).
I own a few top ranked investment real estate sites and I see hundreds of deals across my desk weekly. Some are as you say ‘look like a steal, and will only turn out to be a deal’, but others are truly a steal.[/quote]
Jumby, would you be inclined to list the sites here? Would love to check them out!!
Participant[quote=Jumby]Touche, I can respect that reply socratt, and for the record, I’m not talking about buying NPNs in high risk areas and I’m not personally brokering anything in Cali.
I think we all agree we need to be careful right now. I also think we need to recognize there are good deals out there (for the diligent).
I own a few top ranked investment real estate sites and I see hundreds of deals across my desk weekly. Some are as you say ‘look like a steal, and will only turn out to be a deal’, but others are truly a steal.[/quote]
Jumby, would you be inclined to list the sites here? Would love to check them out!!
Participant[quote=Jumby]Touche, I can respect that reply socratt, and for the record, I’m not talking about buying NPNs in high risk areas and I’m not personally brokering anything in Cali.
I think we all agree we need to be careful right now. I also think we need to recognize there are good deals out there (for the diligent).
I own a few top ranked investment real estate sites and I see hundreds of deals across my desk weekly. Some are as you say ‘look like a steal, and will only turn out to be a deal’, but others are truly a steal.[/quote]
Jumby, would you be inclined to list the sites here? Would love to check them out!!
Participant[quote=Jumby]Touche, I can respect that reply socratt, and for the record, I’m not talking about buying NPNs in high risk areas and I’m not personally brokering anything in Cali.
I think we all agree we need to be careful right now. I also think we need to recognize there are good deals out there (for the diligent).
I own a few top ranked investment real estate sites and I see hundreds of deals across my desk weekly. Some are as you say ‘look like a steal, and will only turn out to be a deal’, but others are truly a steal.[/quote]
Jumby, would you be inclined to list the sites here? Would love to check them out!!
Participant[quote=Jumby]Socratt, what you are saying is common sense…this isn’t 2005 though, it’s 2010, when you are buying homes (through non performing notes) for HALF OF REPLACEMENT COSTS you are getting a great deal. These are the kind of deals that are out there right now for diligent investors. Times like these is when big money is made….
You can sit back and philosophize all you want or you can get in the game and see if there is anything worth your time and money….[/quote]
Jumby, I wanted to give you my feedback on this statement in regards to replacement costs. I don’t necessarily think replacement costs are set in stone especially since we are in limbo with both inflation and deflation. As I mentioned earlier, today the investment could pencil out like a steal and tomorrow that steal could be just a deal.
As Allan stated, the Wall St. models are flawed and I don’t personally look at any investment in this market being safe, unless you are talking about buying single families for $10K, which I am currently doing in other parts of the country.
California numbers are down in respect to population and my bet is that will continue as taxes rise and jobs become more scarce. If you think this won’t affect values along with the factors previously mentioned, I suggest you take some time to research the numbers.
You can call it what you wish, but investing in these markets comes with extreme risk. The current risk factors are 100% controlled by the FED and our government. If you think the FED buying mortgage back securities makes for a fair playing field then I suggest you keep on buying. But if you are like me, you look at the “what ifs” in this speculative market and you compare charts to times of stability and quickly your realize that this market is far from predictable.
Jumby, just for the record I own hundreds of properties throughout the US and my strategy has changed dramatically. I’ve never been a high risk investor, but I consider everything in my portfolio high risk at this point. Keep your eyes peeled on the bond markets in the near future along with the FEDs move in regards to their purchasing of mortgage back securities to keep the rates down. Things will change soon, trust me!
Participant[quote=Jumby]Socratt, what you are saying is common sense…this isn’t 2005 though, it’s 2010, when you are buying homes (through non performing notes) for HALF OF REPLACEMENT COSTS you are getting a great deal. These are the kind of deals that are out there right now for diligent investors. Times like these is when big money is made….
You can sit back and philosophize all you want or you can get in the game and see if there is anything worth your time and money….[/quote]
Jumby, I wanted to give you my feedback on this statement in regards to replacement costs. I don’t necessarily think replacement costs are set in stone especially since we are in limbo with both inflation and deflation. As I mentioned earlier, today the investment could pencil out like a steal and tomorrow that steal could be just a deal.
As Allan stated, the Wall St. models are flawed and I don’t personally look at any investment in this market being safe, unless you are talking about buying single families for $10K, which I am currently doing in other parts of the country.
California numbers are down in respect to population and my bet is that will continue as taxes rise and jobs become more scarce. If you think this won’t affect values along with the factors previously mentioned, I suggest you take some time to research the numbers.
You can call it what you wish, but investing in these markets comes with extreme risk. The current risk factors are 100% controlled by the FED and our government. If you think the FED buying mortgage back securities makes for a fair playing field then I suggest you keep on buying. But if you are like me, you look at the “what ifs” in this speculative market and you compare charts to times of stability and quickly your realize that this market is far from predictable.
Jumby, just for the record I own hundreds of properties throughout the US and my strategy has changed dramatically. I’ve never been a high risk investor, but I consider everything in my portfolio high risk at this point. Keep your eyes peeled on the bond markets in the near future along with the FEDs move in regards to their purchasing of mortgage back securities to keep the rates down. Things will change soon, trust me!
Participant[quote=Jumby]Socratt, what you are saying is common sense…this isn’t 2005 though, it’s 2010, when you are buying homes (through non performing notes) for HALF OF REPLACEMENT COSTS you are getting a great deal. These are the kind of deals that are out there right now for diligent investors. Times like these is when big money is made….
You can sit back and philosophize all you want or you can get in the game and see if there is anything worth your time and money….[/quote]
Jumby, I wanted to give you my feedback on this statement in regards to replacement costs. I don’t necessarily think replacement costs are set in stone especially since we are in limbo with both inflation and deflation. As I mentioned earlier, today the investment could pencil out like a steal and tomorrow that steal could be just a deal.
As Allan stated, the Wall St. models are flawed and I don’t personally look at any investment in this market being safe, unless you are talking about buying single families for $10K, which I am currently doing in other parts of the country.
California numbers are down in respect to population and my bet is that will continue as taxes rise and jobs become more scarce. If you think this won’t affect values along with the factors previously mentioned, I suggest you take some time to research the numbers.
You can call it what you wish, but investing in these markets comes with extreme risk. The current risk factors are 100% controlled by the FED and our government. If you think the FED buying mortgage back securities makes for a fair playing field then I suggest you keep on buying. But if you are like me, you look at the “what ifs” in this speculative market and you compare charts to times of stability and quickly your realize that this market is far from predictable.
Jumby, just for the record I own hundreds of properties throughout the US and my strategy has changed dramatically. I’ve never been a high risk investor, but I consider everything in my portfolio high risk at this point. Keep your eyes peeled on the bond markets in the near future along with the FEDs move in regards to their purchasing of mortgage back securities to keep the rates down. Things will change soon, trust me!
Participant[quote=Jumby]Socratt, what you are saying is common sense…this isn’t 2005 though, it’s 2010, when you are buying homes (through non performing notes) for HALF OF REPLACEMENT COSTS you are getting a great deal. These are the kind of deals that are out there right now for diligent investors. Times like these is when big money is made….
You can sit back and philosophize all you want or you can get in the game and see if there is anything worth your time and money….[/quote]
Jumby, I wanted to give you my feedback on this statement in regards to replacement costs. I don’t necessarily think replacement costs are set in stone especially since we are in limbo with both inflation and deflation. As I mentioned earlier, today the investment could pencil out like a steal and tomorrow that steal could be just a deal.
As Allan stated, the Wall St. models are flawed and I don’t personally look at any investment in this market being safe, unless you are talking about buying single families for $10K, which I am currently doing in other parts of the country.
California numbers are down in respect to population and my bet is that will continue as taxes rise and jobs become more scarce. If you think this won’t affect values along with the factors previously mentioned, I suggest you take some time to research the numbers.
You can call it what you wish, but investing in these markets comes with extreme risk. The current risk factors are 100% controlled by the FED and our government. If you think the FED buying mortgage back securities makes for a fair playing field then I suggest you keep on buying. But if you are like me, you look at the “what ifs” in this speculative market and you compare charts to times of stability and quickly your realize that this market is far from predictable.
Jumby, just for the record I own hundreds of properties throughout the US and my strategy has changed dramatically. I’ve never been a high risk investor, but I consider everything in my portfolio high risk at this point. Keep your eyes peeled on the bond markets in the near future along with the FEDs move in regards to their purchasing of mortgage back securities to keep the rates down. Things will change soon, trust me!
Participant[quote=Jumby]Socratt, what you are saying is common sense…this isn’t 2005 though, it’s 2010, when you are buying homes (through non performing notes) for HALF OF REPLACEMENT COSTS you are getting a great deal. These are the kind of deals that are out there right now for diligent investors. Times like these is when big money is made….
You can sit back and philosophize all you want or you can get in the game and see if there is anything worth your time and money….[/quote]
Jumby, I wanted to give you my feedback on this statement in regards to replacement costs. I don’t necessarily think replacement costs are set in stone especially since we are in limbo with both inflation and deflation. As I mentioned earlier, today the investment could pencil out like a steal and tomorrow that steal could be just a deal.
As Allan stated, the Wall St. models are flawed and I don’t personally look at any investment in this market being safe, unless you are talking about buying single families for $10K, which I am currently doing in other parts of the country.
California numbers are down in respect to population and my bet is that will continue as taxes rise and jobs become more scarce. If you think this won’t affect values along with the factors previously mentioned, I suggest you take some time to research the numbers.
You can call it what you wish, but investing in these markets comes with extreme risk. The current risk factors are 100% controlled by the FED and our government. If you think the FED buying mortgage back securities makes for a fair playing field then I suggest you keep on buying. But if you are like me, you look at the “what ifs” in this speculative market and you compare charts to times of stability and quickly your realize that this market is far from predictable.
Jumby, just for the record I own hundreds of properties throughout the US and my strategy has changed dramatically. I’ve never been a high risk investor, but I consider everything in my portfolio high risk at this point. Keep your eyes peeled on the bond markets in the near future along with the FEDs move in regards to their purchasing of mortgage back securities to keep the rates down. Things will change soon, trust me!
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