[Shadowfax]

[quote=surveyor]gandalf:
However, he comes across to me as a person who’s been in school way too long and hasn’t had the hard experience to give him the judgment he needs to be president. He’s just too green. Until that changes, I don’t believe he will be an effective president.
[/quote]

Some quick facts on this last point from his website: He has been in school as long as most senators–4 years of college and 3 years of law school (unless he graduated early on an accelerated program as some do). Total time in school: 7 years (oh, and he’s a high school graduate–I’d want at least that in a president!)

He served as a community organizer in Chicago for about 4 years and a state senator for 8 years./ That’s 12 years out of school in the real world. Then there is his time serving as a US senator most recently, and he did a stint as a private lawyer and law school professor in the early 90s.

So, I think he’s been out of higher education and in the real world longer than he was in academia.

I am curious to know who you would vote for as president–who has the right credentials and experience to gain your confidence? You must agree that it’s a unique job–you can’t transfer in from some other division with the same job description! The constitution prevents foreigners from serving and only other world leaders would be truly experienced enough to run a country. Tony Blair, anyone? (At least he can discuss the issues competently unlike our currently elected brainiac leader….)

[Shadowfax]

[quote=surveyor]gandalf:
However, he comes across to me as a person who’s been in school way too long and hasn’t had the hard experience to give him the judgment he needs to be president. He’s just too green. Until that changes, I don’t believe he will be an effective president.
[/quote]

Some quick facts on this last point from his website: He has been in school as long as most senators–4 years of college and 3 years of law school (unless he graduated early on an accelerated program as some do). Total time in school: 7 years (oh, and he’s a high school graduate–I’d want at least that in a president!)

He served as a community organizer in Chicago for about 4 years and a state senator for 8 years./ That’s 12 years out of school in the real world. Then there is his time serving as a US senator most recently, and he did a stint as a private lawyer and law school professor in the early 90s.

So, I think he’s been out of higher education and in the real world longer than he was in academia.

I am curious to know who you would vote for as president–who has the right credentials and experience to gain your confidence? You must agree that it’s a unique job–you can’t transfer in from some other division with the same job description! The constitution prevents foreigners from serving and only other world leaders would be truly experienced enough to run a country. Tony Blair, anyone? (At least he can discuss the issues competently unlike our currently elected brainiac leader….)

[Shadowfax]

[quote=surveyor]gandalf:
However, he comes across to me as a person who’s been in school way too long and hasn’t had the hard experience to give him the judgment he needs to be president. He’s just too green. Until that changes, I don’t believe he will be an effective president.
[/quote]

Some quick facts on this last point from his website: He has been in school as long as most senators–4 years of college and 3 years of law school (unless he graduated early on an accelerated program as some do). Total time in school: 7 years (oh, and he’s a high school graduate–I’d want at least that in a president!)

He served as a community organizer in Chicago for about 4 years and a state senator for 8 years./ That’s 12 years out of school in the real world. Then there is his time serving as a US senator most recently, and he did a stint as a private lawyer and law school professor in the early 90s.

So, I think he’s been out of higher education and in the real world longer than he was in academia.

I am curious to know who you would vote for as president–who has the right credentials and experience to gain your confidence? You must agree that it’s a unique job–you can’t transfer in from some other division with the same job description! The constitution prevents foreigners from serving and only other world leaders would be truly experienced enough to run a country. Tony Blair, anyone? (At least he can discuss the issues competently unlike our currently elected brainiac leader….)

[Shadowfax]

[quote=surveyor]gandalf:
However, he comes across to me as a person who’s been in school way too long and hasn’t had the hard experience to give him the judgment he needs to be president. He’s just too green. Until that changes, I don’t believe he will be an effective president.
[/quote]

Some quick facts on this last point from his website: He has been in school as long as most senators–4 years of college and 3 years of law school (unless he graduated early on an accelerated program as some do). Total time in school: 7 years (oh, and he’s a high school graduate–I’d want at least that in a president!)

He served as a community organizer in Chicago for about 4 years and a state senator for 8 years./ That’s 12 years out of school in the real world. Then there is his time serving as a US senator most recently, and he did a stint as a private lawyer and law school professor in the early 90s.

So, I think he’s been out of higher education and in the real world longer than he was in academia.

I am curious to know who you would vote for as president–who has the right credentials and experience to gain your confidence? You must agree that it’s a unique job–you can’t transfer in from some other division with the same job description! The constitution prevents foreigners from serving and only other world leaders would be truly experienced enough to run a country. Tony Blair, anyone? (At least he can discuss the issues competently unlike our currently elected brainiac leader….)

[Shadowfax]

Quick reply as I do have work to do…

I was thinking along the lines of the first Iraq war, in which I think we did a good job, except for not closing the deal on Hussein. I used to support the UN but their recent history shows them just as susceptible to corruption and incompetence as any other large agency. I agree the Euros are a little too enamored of discussing things over tea/wine/beer, which is why I was hoping we’d engage in a BRIEF attempt at diplomacy, hope that the other sides spit in our face and then, hopefully (and I admit to some idealism here) we can rally the troops (metaphorically speaking). I don’t see the downside of a peer to peer discussion–but I am not as strong on the details as many here. I do see an upside–give them their chance to be heard (makes us look good) and to screw up before the world community.

Ok, can’t wait to read the onslaught and attacks. I’ve stolen enough time from my livelihood already…

[Shadowfax]

Quick reply as I do have work to do…

I was thinking along the lines of the first Iraq war, in which I think we did a good job, except for not closing the deal on Hussein. I used to support the UN but their recent history shows them just as susceptible to corruption and incompetence as any other large agency. I agree the Euros are a little too enamored of discussing things over tea/wine/beer, which is why I was hoping we’d engage in a BRIEF attempt at diplomacy, hope that the other sides spit in our face and then, hopefully (and I admit to some idealism here) we can rally the troops (metaphorically speaking). I don’t see the downside of a peer to peer discussion–but I am not as strong on the details as many here. I do see an upside–give them their chance to be heard (makes us look good) and to screw up before the world community.

Ok, can’t wait to read the onslaught and attacks. I’ve stolen enough time from my livelihood already…

[Shadowfax]

Quick reply as I do have work to do…

I was thinking along the lines of the first Iraq war, in which I think we did a good job, except for not closing the deal on Hussein. I used to support the UN but their recent history shows them just as susceptible to corruption and incompetence as any other large agency. I agree the Euros are a little too enamored of discussing things over tea/wine/beer, which is why I was hoping we’d engage in a BRIEF attempt at diplomacy, hope that the other sides spit in our face and then, hopefully (and I admit to some idealism here) we can rally the troops (metaphorically speaking). I don’t see the downside of a peer to peer discussion–but I am not as strong on the details as many here. I do see an upside–give them their chance to be heard (makes us look good) and to screw up before the world community.

Ok, can’t wait to read the onslaught and attacks. I’ve stolen enough time from my livelihood already…

[Shadowfax]

Quick reply as I do have work to do…

I was thinking along the lines of the first Iraq war, in which I think we did a good job, except for not closing the deal on Hussein. I used to support the UN but their recent history shows them just as susceptible to corruption and incompetence as any other large agency. I agree the Euros are a little too enamored of discussing things over tea/wine/beer, which is why I was hoping we’d engage in a BRIEF attempt at diplomacy, hope that the other sides spit in our face and then, hopefully (and I admit to some idealism here) we can rally the troops (metaphorically speaking). I don’t see the downside of a peer to peer discussion–but I am not as strong on the details as many here. I do see an upside–give them their chance to be heard (makes us look good) and to screw up before the world community.

Ok, can’t wait to read the onslaught and attacks. I’ve stolen enough time from my livelihood already…

[Shadowfax]

Quick reply as I do have work to do…

I was thinking along the lines of the first Iraq war, in which I think we did a good job, except for not closing the deal on Hussein. I used to support the UN but their recent history shows them just as susceptible to corruption and incompetence as any other large agency. I agree the Euros are a little too enamored of discussing things over tea/wine/beer, which is why I was hoping we’d engage in a BRIEF attempt at diplomacy, hope that the other sides spit in our face and then, hopefully (and I admit to some idealism here) we can rally the troops (metaphorically speaking). I don’t see the downside of a peer to peer discussion–but I am not as strong on the details as many here. I do see an upside–give them their chance to be heard (makes us look good) and to screw up before the world community.

Ok, can’t wait to read the onslaught and attacks. I’ve stolen enough time from my livelihood already…

[Shadowfax]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]To me, it sounds very much like the situation with Iran and President I-Am-a-Dinner-Jacket. Continued European dissembling, combined with any sort of serious response or willingness to confront him has resulted in the present situation. Does engaging in further dialogue here help? Does having a strong grasp of history help? Does understanding the nature of the regime, the people and the motivations? And, I am not saying the McCain is possessed of a modicum more understanding than Obama is. Let me be very clear about that. I find his singing “bomb Iran” to the strains of the Beach Boys “Barbara Ann” chilling as hell.[/quote]

I find it to be a good quality to want to “start fresh” and come out from under the dark cloud of the current state of our foreign affairs with these countries. While I agree that dealing with these two leaders is probably hopeless, perhaps a new start (I hope a brief one) is more useful to get the US back on the moral highground in the world’s view so that we can start to re-assemble our credibility with our allies. And give those two nut jobs a chance to show their colors to the world–get them to bite the hand that is reaching out to you, then assemble a true multinational force to deal with each problem from a unified and morally superior view point? Just a thought…

[Shadowfax]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]To me, it sounds very much like the situation with Iran and President I-Am-a-Dinner-Jacket. Continued European dissembling, combined with any sort of serious response or willingness to confront him has resulted in the present situation. Does engaging in further dialogue here help? Does having a strong grasp of history help? Does understanding the nature of the regime, the people and the motivations? And, I am not saying the McCain is possessed of a modicum more understanding than Obama is. Let me be very clear about that. I find his singing “bomb Iran” to the strains of the Beach Boys “Barbara Ann” chilling as hell.[/quote]

I find it to be a good quality to want to “start fresh” and come out from under the dark cloud of the current state of our foreign affairs with these countries. While I agree that dealing with these two leaders is probably hopeless, perhaps a new start (I hope a brief one) is more useful to get the US back on the moral highground in the world’s view so that we can start to re-assemble our credibility with our allies. And give those two nut jobs a chance to show their colors to the world–get them to bite the hand that is reaching out to you, then assemble a true multinational force to deal with each problem from a unified and morally superior view point? Just a thought…

[Shadowfax]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]To me, it sounds very much like the situation with Iran and President I-Am-a-Dinner-Jacket. Continued European dissembling, combined with any sort of serious response or willingness to confront him has resulted in the present situation. Does engaging in further dialogue here help? Does having a strong grasp of history help? Does understanding the nature of the regime, the people and the motivations? And, I am not saying the McCain is possessed of a modicum more understanding than Obama is. Let me be very clear about that. I find his singing “bomb Iran” to the strains of the Beach Boys “Barbara Ann” chilling as hell.[/quote]

I find it to be a good quality to want to “start fresh” and come out from under the dark cloud of the current state of our foreign affairs with these countries. While I agree that dealing with these two leaders is probably hopeless, perhaps a new start (I hope a brief one) is more useful to get the US back on the moral highground in the world’s view so that we can start to re-assemble our credibility with our allies. And give those two nut jobs a chance to show their colors to the world–get them to bite the hand that is reaching out to you, then assemble a true multinational force to deal with each problem from a unified and morally superior view point? Just a thought…

[Shadowfax]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]To me, it sounds very much like the situation with Iran and President I-Am-a-Dinner-Jacket. Continued European dissembling, combined with any sort of serious response or willingness to confront him has resulted in the present situation. Does engaging in further dialogue here help? Does having a strong grasp of history help? Does understanding the nature of the regime, the people and the motivations? And, I am not saying the McCain is possessed of a modicum more understanding than Obama is. Let me be very clear about that. I find his singing “bomb Iran” to the strains of the Beach Boys “Barbara Ann” chilling as hell.[/quote]

I find it to be a good quality to want to “start fresh” and come out from under the dark cloud of the current state of our foreign affairs with these countries. While I agree that dealing with these two leaders is probably hopeless, perhaps a new start (I hope a brief one) is more useful to get the US back on the moral highground in the world’s view so that we can start to re-assemble our credibility with our allies. And give those two nut jobs a chance to show their colors to the world–get them to bite the hand that is reaching out to you, then assemble a true multinational force to deal with each problem from a unified and morally superior view point? Just a thought…

[Shadowfax]

[quote=Allan from Fallbrook]To me, it sounds very much like the situation with Iran and President I-Am-a-Dinner-Jacket. Continued European dissembling, combined with any sort of serious response or willingness to confront him has resulted in the present situation. Does engaging in further dialogue here help? Does having a strong grasp of history help? Does understanding the nature of the regime, the people and the motivations? And, I am not saying the McCain is possessed of a modicum more understanding than Obama is. Let me be very clear about that. I find his singing “bomb Iran” to the strains of the Beach Boys “Barbara Ann” chilling as hell.[/quote]

I find it to be a good quality to want to “start fresh” and come out from under the dark cloud of the current state of our foreign affairs with these countries. While I agree that dealing with these two leaders is probably hopeless, perhaps a new start (I hope a brief one) is more useful to get the US back on the moral highground in the world’s view so that we can start to re-assemble our credibility with our allies. And give those two nut jobs a chance to show their colors to the world–get them to bite the hand that is reaching out to you, then assemble a true multinational force to deal with each problem from a unified and morally superior view point? Just a thought…

[Shadowfax]

Quite a few “For Sale” and “For Rent” signs out there…

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