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sdcellar
ParticipantYou can always try the Wayback Machine.
ParticipantBought a 2/1 750 square foot craftsman in late 1986 for $76K. Sold that in mid 1990 for $120K and bought a bigger (for us at least) 3/2 for $185K. Looking back, I’d say this was roughly at the peak, although I had no clue at the time. I was just stoked to get that much for my little house.
I keep this in mind when I see people buying today and think to myself, how can they buy right now, when it seems very likely that properties will depreciate for a number of years to come. I remember how. You’ve got a growing family (heck one’s maybe even on the way), your career is moving along nicely, and you just have no idea the train’s about to stop.
Anyway, the poor folks that bought our little place were stuck with it for years and were finally able to sell it for $400 less than they paid us 7 1/2 years prior.
For the new place, I realized a year or so in, that it was worth less than what we paid for it, but we weren’t moving, so it didn’t bother me all that much. In 1992, I researched the comps and filed an appeal with the assessor and got the tax basis reduced to $159K. It might have sold for that, but who knows, and at least we were saving $250 bucks a year or so on taxes (okay, so it seemed like a shrewd move at the time!) I’d guess we could have sold it for what we paid around 1998, but actually ended up selling it for $300K in 2002 (12 years later).
ParticipantI would definitely recommend Tierrasanta since you’ve got children. Good schools, parks, central location.
There’s a storage place very close as well (just off Tierrasanta Blvd, southwest of the 15). You might also want to check out PODS–competitive prices and if they can pick up and drop off at your particular address, very convenient. Their facility isn’t too far from Tierrasanta either (not that you’ll necessarily need to go there). I used them for a six month stint and was very satisfied.
ParticipantThe train ride between Williams and South Rim is a lot of fun. I highly recommend it. The only thing to be aware of is that they stage a train robbery and it might be a bit scary for little ones. My son was 8 at the time and he thought it was cool.
Participantsdr– I meant to remark on your DeLorean comment as I use it quite frequently myself (although I always say mine is in the shop). Just another example of how we’re probably of similar vintage!
Anyway, I’d like to come up with some real examples since I think it’s all just a little easier when posed with dollars and cents versus percentage.
I’ll do my situation first, I’d just like some input on making the comparison fair. I’ll start and you poke holes:
Cost of ownership: Interest, taxes, insurance
Cost of renting: Rent, insuranceBenefit of ownership: Interest and tax deduction
Benefit of renting: Investment return on down paymentCost – Benefit = True Cost
For the ownership side, I’d still like to amortize the loan over 30 years, I just don’t want to consider the principal part of the cost.
I also am making the major assumption that there is no appreciation for ownership (for the foreseeable future), and I won’t consider rent increases either since as a renter, I can re-evalute the situation every year.
Sound fair?
Participantsdrealtor– A lot of ground has been covered since my last comment, but I think I can summarize by saying that it definitely gets confusing when we go back and forth between anecdotal, personal, and typical (whatever the hell that is) situations.
We’re certainly all guilty of it, but I find in this post you use whichever one supports your position best. Even when you commented on my tax benefit link, you used the 20% down example, which may be typical, but not necessarily your personal situation or that of your neighbors.
Again, we all do it, but again refering to my tax benefit point, I was very clear that it was personal and that 50% down was not typical, but instead my personal situation. It’s funny because I tell people that *I* don’t get a tax benefit and they still doubt it.
Your last post is sort of the capper for me, as it comes off just a little bit snobbish. I’m pretty certain that I could be your neighbor, and somehow I could accomplish this as a lowly renter (and it would be at a discount).
So where am I going with this? I’m not trying to be critical, but I think that we all need to try to consider these arguments in the here and now, and we can even use different demographics to support them–yours, mine, first-time buyer, rich dude, whatever.
It’s just not useful to throw in all benefits that have been associated with home ownership at different points in time and consider them all valid today giving us x% as realistic premium for buying over renting. Appreciation is the perfect example here. Over time, it’s been a tremendous benefit, but right now, I think most of would agree that you won’t be able to factor that in for some time to come.
You purchased your home in 1998 and obviously the benefits have been tremendous. I think we’d both agree it’s a bit different in 2007.
Participantsdrealtor– I don’t see how you can say relocating within 10 years is out of your mindset when you yourself have admitted you’ve only been in your current home for 8 years. It’s certainly possible you were wherever you were before for longer than 10 years, making it a little more palletable, but are you going to tell me you’ve never lived somewhere for a shorter period? Perhaps you meant “at this time in my life.”
As far the tax benefit is concerned, that is often dubious, as I pointed out in my first post here.
ParticipantYeah, I was actually hoping to see you there.
No doubt these things work. I think just the big white tent alone doesn’t come cheap–add in speaker engagement fees and free lattes, damn well better sell some houses.
The sad thing is for those who actually are attending to “get informed”, it’s probably the single worst decision many of them could make.
I like to think that at least a few really figured out some things though. Alan Nevin (one of the MarketPointe speakers) accidentally referred to housing prices as insane at one point. Hopefully, it registered at least subliminally with a few folks…
ParticipantThere are suckers at all price points.
Also, I know your comment wasn’t directed at me (or at least I don’t think it was), but I wasted my time there! Mostly, I enjoy hearing what those with opposing viewpoints have to say and I was *hoping* to possibly run into fellow Piggingtonians.
Sadly, I failed in the latter regard, mainly because I was reluctant to shout Bubble! in a crowded seminar tent…
Participantsedwick19– I assume you’re being a little bit sarcastic unless you’re talking about the whole session with Chamberlain and the shills (whoops, I meant guys) from MarketPointe.
George was basically the warm up act, telling a few jokes and thereby reassuring the huddled masses (hey, it was a little chilly that morning) that there was nothing to be worried about here, move along. Well, that is, after you buy a house since “It’s always a great time to buy!” ™.
Things I learned:
- It’s warmer here in San Diego than most of the rest of the country
- There are 350-357 GPDs here (those are Golf Playable Days)
- Not really a foreclosure problem becuase only 10% of borrowers are in the excessive obligation category.
- Only 1 in 6 borrowers have ARMs, so again, no worries there
- Children of homeowners do better in school than children of renters
- Fortune magazine did a cover article on the housing bust in 2002. Ha ha, so everyone must still be wrong
Anyway, those are the highlights that I can remember, but you can see the whole thing for yourself right here.
ParticipantNo envy here (assuming this could possibly be directed my way).
ParticipantMan! I’d like to take credit for something, but I think you meant to credit sdrealtor and not me.
I suppose I can find some solace in it being some sort of Freudian slip? Perhaps you find value in some of the things I post, but it’s just hard to uncover any actual evidence of it!
Participantlindismith– I don’t expect everyone to know what MEW is by any stretch, but I’m sure PS does. I also don’t think she considers herself a beginner, but if so, I apologize (sincerely!)
I will cut her some slack however as I have often been and continue to be entertained (and even sometimes enlightened) by her posts.
ParticipantI’m sorry, is “oldtimers have refinanced their equity out” something different than MEW? Or did you think that everybody else means that MEW only applies to newtimers?
and, Huh? Are you talking to me? Are you thinking that I’m encouraging you to copy other bloggers? Nope. I’m just calling you out on your claim that all the ideas you listed are your very own original thoughts.
And yes, I know you learned of the bubble from Rich. The reason I posted the link was because I thought maybe you forgot…
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